Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi, I'm hoping people who are either breeders or who show their dogs may be able to give me some information. This is planning for at least 12 months away (realistically probably longer). When I got Kenzie she was listed on the limited register, not a problem for me at that point because I wanted a pet dog to do obedience and agility with. She is wonderous and doing really well in these areas, hopefully will actually compete this year and do well. So being on the limit register is no problem. However, as I'm sure many of you have experienced, I am falling more and more in love with the breed. I am thinking when I get my next puppy that I would like to try and get a main registered one so that I could show it (along with the other dog sports that I enjoy). Do I want to breed? In all honesty, I don't know. It is a lot of work and that is something that I would discuss with the breeder anyway. It seems to be quite difficult to get dogs on the main register. And I am somewhat particular about who I would be getting a dog from, I have seen DOL listings wher eif you pay more then the pup is main registered. I would have thought the decision to main register a dog would have been more about how it conforms to the requirement of the breed rather than paying more. But as someone who is not part of the show community I feel that it is difficult to try and start establishing a relationship with a breeder so that they would have confidence in helping get a main registered dog and in showing it. So, I know there aren't really questions here but I'm hoping you can see where I'm coming from and give me any advice/pointers/explanations/etc. Like I said this is some time away, but I also understand that if you were a breeder you would want to have some sort of relationship with the person who will be showing a dog under your kennel name. Thanks in advance for anything you can tell me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Is the breeder you like in your own state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 You could start by attending shows and meeting breeders there. Breeders who see that you are committed enough to regularly attend shows without a dog may well be more inclined to consider you for a potential show quality pup. There are lots of other factors, but that might help. And of course you would be getting to know and be known by the breeders and you would be able to see up close and personal the dogs themselves. Better to get to know the show scene before you get a show pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Is the breeder you like in your own state? Yes, I think so. Going from the dogs I have met and seen so far there are a few Vic breeders who I had good experiences with when getting young Kenzie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm in the process of getting my first show dog. Halo is joining our family at the end of the month and we're very excited. Yes, you're correct that a main registered dog should be of a higher standard, which should be the deciding factor rather than paying more to have it main registered. IMO there should be no difference in price between a main and limited registered dog. We actually got to know both the breed we're going into and our breeder by chatting on DOL - there are no breeders of lappies in SA, however that's because they're an uncommon breed. If I were you, I'd head to shows, watch your breed in the ring and try and speak to exhibitors (when they're not busy of course) saying that you're interested in showing. By knowing that you're willing to go to shows without a dog, they'll realise that you're actually keen to get out there. The other thing is, you might find that you HATE the show scene - I know of a few people who decided it wasn't for them. By getting out there before you have the dog, you'll be able to decide whether this is something you really want to do or not. You'll also be able to get to know exhibitors of your breed in your state, and it's really helpful knowing who you can ask for help when you finally do get out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, you're correct that a main registered dog should be of a higher standard, which should be the deciding factor rather than paying more to have it main registered. Actually that is not correct. A lot of breeders put pups who are show quality on the limited register as they are going to a pet home. What might be a great pet home is not necessarily one that would be a great show home. If the owner decides prior to sterilizing that they would like to show and the breeder is happy that the pup is still show quality then it can be changed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Yes, you're correct that a main registered dog should be of a higher standard, which should be the deciding factor rather than paying more to have it main registered. Actually that is not correct. A lot of breeders put pups who are show quality on the limited register as they are going to a pet home. What might be a great pet home is not necessarily one that would be a great show home. If the owner decides prior to sterilizing that they would like to show and the breeder is happy that the pup is still show quality then it can be changed over. There are a lot of good quality dogs in pet homes - sometimes its that there wasn't someone around at the time willing to show them for the breeder (you can't keep every dog), sometimes it might be some other reason - its the breeders choice. Many breeders will only breed for themselves, others breed selectively and are willing to work with other people who want to be involved in showing the breed, which is often where you see share agreements (either of these breeders is the type you want, but I should note co-ownership is a whole seperate thread! LOL). However, a breeder that seems to have litters on the go all the time, and only breeds to sell (ie you don't see them showing/trialling etc) is someone IMO who you should be vary wary of, even if they are willing to put a dog or bitch on mains and sell to you. In short, if the motivation for breeding is not to improve the breed (and be willing to have this demonstrated in a ring - or in whatever field of testing you are looking for) then you may run the risk of paying good money for an animal that is not of the quality that you are after. Because the basic theory (and yes, this is subjective!!) is that dogs in the ring should be of the best quality that the breed currently has to offer. That's why we have judges and ribbons LOL Edited January 10, 2011 by lappiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I didn't find it difficult at all, my girl came to me on main register and the breeder told me I could show her if I liked. Which I did, and still do occasionally, but that was not my reason for buying her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrotpea Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree with the PP's who have said to go along to some dog shows and talk to breeders. I have just got my first show pup as a total non-dog show person from a lovely breeder who is very committed to the breed. I also found my state breed club very helpful, and I contacted some of the breeders listed on their site and had a chat to them over the phone to see what they were like, and to ask them how willing they were to help me out with learning the ropes, and whether they have mentored anyone else (if that is something which would be helpful for you ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Go to local shows, meet the breeders and get to know them. Let them know that you are interested in showing, maybe they will let you handle some of their dogs to see if you really what to get into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm wondering if there are differences between breeds as to willingness to sell puppies on the main register? As in, are breeders of some breeds more willing to sell main registered pups and allow full ownership of them and for them to be shown, etc. Whereas other breeds are more reluctant for whatever reason. I'm hoping even if this is so that they would look at potential owners case by case as to who is suitable to provide such homes. Mind you, I did also have someone (who is just a doggy person not a breeder or shower, etc) say to me that wouldn't a breeder want as many of their dogs as possible getting their name out there if they are breeding dogs that are great examples of the breed. But I also understand the possible implications this could have for breeding that may not be desirable. Thanks for all the good advice so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 What breed are you looking at. Some breeds it MAY be harder to get a show pup then in other breeds. I know when I was first looking at getting a golden to show it was quite difficult, I got a different breed first, and one that I adore just as much, and now that I am in the ring with her, I haven't found it difficult at all to get a golden to show. Once you prove you are serious it's not as difficult. Having said all that, when I got Willow (LH Wei), I also looked at 2 or 3 other breeds, and all of the breeders I contacted were quite willing to sell me a show puppy if that was the breed I went with. I was upfront about being unsure if that was the breed I wanted, and I asked a lot of questions about the breed. I think it helped that I wrote them an essay introducing myself, how I looked after my dogs, what dogs/s I currently had, why I wanted to show etc. I was lucky with Willow in that her breeder put her in my name outright, BUT I was fully expecting to have her in joint names, especially as she is a bitch. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, especially if you are new to showing, and I wouldn't not go with a breeder if their only stipulation was to have the dog in both names. JMO. It's a way of protecting their lines, from an unknown so to speak.... it's not foolproof, but I think it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) If you are looking for a pup of the breed you already have also (BC?), are you involved in and participating in breed activities already? When I got my first Aussie (limit register), I joined a breed specific email list and also the state breed club. Once I'd kind of "hung around" them for a while, I could pretty much take my pick of who to get my next pup from. ETA: My girl is not co-owned, she is my dog outright. My third dog IS co-owned with the same breeder, but this is an entirely different arrangement and it's not because I wanted a dog on the main register. Edited January 10, 2011 by GayleK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Some breeds are popular with pfs and bybs and breeders therefore have to try a lot harder to screen their puppy buyers and be wary of main register and entire requests. It can be a minefield, depending on the breed...meet the breeders, attend events sponsored by the breed club in your state as well as shows if possible. I assume you are looking for a border collie to show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm wondering if there are differences between breeds as to willingness to sell puppies on the main register? As in, are breeders of some breeds more willing to sell main registered pups and allow full ownership of them and for them to be shown, etc. Whereas other breeds are more reluctant for whatever reason. I'm hoping even if this is so that they would look at potential owners case by case as to who is suitable to provide such homes.Mind you, I did also have someone (who is just a doggy person not a breeder or shower, etc) say to me that wouldn't a breeder want as many of their dogs as possible getting their name out there if they are breeding dogs that are great examples of the breed. But I also understand the possible implications this could have for breeding that may not be desirable. Thanks for all the good advice so far! I think some breeders don't care how many dogs they have in the ring. I know that in some breeds its pretty much impossible to get show dogs from certain people because they want to keep their lines to themselves, fair enough, that's their choice. Other breeders might look at a litter and say, 'well I have four amazing puppies here but these two happen to stand out above the rest, they will be my only show dogs' Quality not quantity is what will win at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, you're correct that a main registered dog should be of a higher standard, which should be the deciding factor rather than paying more to have it main registered. Actually that is not correct. A lot of breeders put pups who are show quality on the limited register as they are going to a pet home. What might be a great pet home is not necessarily one that would be a great show home. If the owner decides prior to sterilizing that they would like to show and the breeder is happy that the pup is still show quality then it can be changed over. There are a lot of good quality dogs in pet homes - sometimes its that there wasn't someone around at the time willing to show them for the breeder (you can't keep every dog), sometimes it might be some other reason - its the breeders choice. Many breeders will only breed for themselves, others breed selectively and are willing to work with other people who want to be involved in showing the breed, which is often where you see share agreements (either of these breeders is the type you want, but I should note co-ownership is a whole seperate thread! LOL). However, a breeder that seems to have litters on the go all the time, and only breeds to sell (ie you don't see them showing/trialling etc) is someone IMO who you should be vary wary of, even if they are willing to put a dog or bitch on mains and sell to you. In short, if the motivation for breeding is not to improve the breed (and be willing to have this demonstrated in a ring - or in whatever field of testing you are looking for) then you may run the risk of paying good money for an animal that is not of the quality that you are after. Because the basic theory (and yes, this is subjective!!) is that dogs in the ring should be of the best quality that the breed currently has to offer. That's why we have judges and ribbons LOL The bolded part is what I meant and obviously didn't phrase correctly. Yes, I know that a lot of show quality dogs end up in pet homes, but I meant in regards to the OP saying that they had to pay more for a main registered dog to show. To me, it sounded as though they meant that some breeders are happy to put any dog on main register as long as you pay more for it, even if that dog is not a good enough example of the breed, which should not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Are you a member of the Border Collie club in Victoria?? Be honest with the breeders,inform them of what achievements you have done with first dog & what your hoping to do with the next one. Go to shows but obviously the breed club & working dog club shows would be a great start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thankyou for all of your feedback so far! I feel like I'm learning, and also having some things I thought reinfirced. All good. Yes, it would be a BC. I keep trying to find another breed I like as much, but so far it just isn't so!! Maybe one day. I am a member of the BCCV. So I think good advice to make contact with them and try to meet breeders through them. And I will try to start heading to shows once I get back from my trip (argh! Have to leave my girls!!! ) in a few months. I know a couple of people who show (BC's and others), so I might see if they would be happy for me to tag along with them sometimes. I'm glad I'm thinking these things through now, I knew that it would likely be an extended process. But I'd rather be prepared and then decide that I don't want to continue down that line rather than continue thinking as I am and then be disappointed to have to continue waiting and waiting!! A question that may be a different thread, but I think sort of works here. Co-ownership? I certainly can understand breeders wanting to protect their lines and be able to be careful who they allow matings with. What tend to be the other aspects of co-ownership? How much control does the breeder have as compared to you who they live with? Do you pay the same? If you think a new thread for this let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thankyou for all of your feedback so far! I feel like I'm learning, and also having some things I thought reinfirced. All good. Yes, it would be a BC. I keep trying to find another breed I like as much, but so far it just isn't so!! Maybe one day. I am a member of the BCCV. So I think good advice to make contact with them and try to meet breeders through them. And I will try to start heading to shows once I get back from my trip (argh! Have to leave my girls!!! ) in a few months. I know a couple of people who show (BC's and others), so I might see if they would be happy for me to tag along with them sometimes. I'm glad I'm thinking these things through now, I knew that it would likely be an extended process. But I'd rather be prepared and then decide that I don't want to continue down that line rather than continue thinking as I am and then be disappointed to have to continue waiting and waiting!! A question that may be a different thread, but I think sort of works here. Co-ownership? I certainly can understand breeders wanting to protect their lines and be able to be careful who they allow matings with. What tend to be the other aspects of co-ownership? How much control does the breeder have as compared to you who they live with? Do you pay the same? If you think a new thread for this let me know! yes, it is! LOL Co-ownership arrangements vary depending on the contract. Essentially both parties have equal ownership, and once the contract is agreed, nothing can be changed or amended without the approval of both parties. You need to ensure that the contract is very clear and that everyone is 100% ok with the conditions. There should also be a clause to deal with what happens if things go south. Some states require that the contract is submitted along with the co-ownership form, others just the form (I think!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoccosMum Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thankyou for all of your feedback so far! I feel like I'm learning, and also having some things I thought reinfirced. All good. Yes, it would be a BC. I keep trying to find another breed I like as much, but so far it just isn't so!! Maybe one day. I am a member of the BCCV. So I think good advice to make contact with them and try to meet breeders through them. And I will try to start heading to shows once I get back from my trip (argh! Have to leave my girls!!! ) in a few months. I know a couple of people who show (BC's and others), so I might see if they would be happy for me to tag along with them sometimes. I'm glad I'm thinking these things through now, I knew that it would likely be an extended process. But I'd rather be prepared and then decide that I don't want to continue down that line rather than continue thinking as I am and then be disappointed to have to continue waiting and waiting!! A question that may be a different thread, but I think sort of works here. Co-ownership? I certainly can understand breeders wanting to protect their lines and be able to be careful who they allow matings with. What tend to be the other aspects of co-ownership? How much control does the breeder have as compared to you who they live with? Do you pay the same? If you think a new thread for this let me know! Hi PME, Everything so far seems like a good idea. Developing a good relationship with your breeder is the best way of insuring a good quality puppy. In regards to co-ownership, its not just to protect their lines, but also yourself and the breeder. I am hoping to add another dane to my household, it will be my first show dog. Second actually, but the other one is a whole different story! In my case our breed is in a bit of trouble at the moment and I have no intention of breeding for a very long time! If ever! Only a handful of breeders health test and and I have found one that is doing amazing things for the breed. I will only purchase the dog in a co-ownership, it seems the safest and most resopnsible way. With how much control you have over the dog is up to you and the breeder. Every breeder will have different terms and conditions, it will be what you both agree on. Im easy though as I only want to show so the breeder will be the one using him as a stud. Can you tell I want a boy! Its harder with the girls..... plus I live 9456577890887654 km away! haha! Hope this helps! and good luck in finding a puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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