Fleas And A Maths Question

[shantiah]

On another list I am on people have been saying that they have been using Confidor insecticide to treat fleas with great success for many years. It has the same active ingredient as Advantage at a fraction of the cost.

They have reccommended the ditution rate of 1:2 as per the directions on the pack.

However

Confidor is 200g/l of Imidacloprid

Advantage is 100g/l

Dogs 25kg and over get 4ml advantage

Dogs 4-10kg get 1ml advantage

Is the 200g/l in confidor as a concentrate or once it is mixed at the suggested rate of 1:2 ? And if so how much would you put on a small dog ?

OR would you dilute it 1:4 to get the same rate as advantage (assuming the 200g/l is the mixed rate) and use the same dosage as advantage ?

I was never good at maths so hoping someone else can figure this out for me.

I realize that the use of confidor is OFF LABEL for dogs, but with 30 odd dogs here and a major flea plague I am willing to give it a try. I bought them frontline spray last week and it has only lasted a week whereas last year it worked very well. I cannot afford to do them with frontline every week.

I have also bought them coopex to treat the ground and kennels but have to wait till OH is home next week to give me a hand as there is 5acres to treat

[indigirl]

I would do it 1:4 as it has dbe the amount of Imidacloprid, and use the same dosage rate as the Advantage.

A few yrs ago my house on the central coast had a huge flea problem. I had the yard and house treated, lawns mowed to within an inch of their lives for weeks, Under the house and deck totally blocked off with chcken wire so the dog couldnt get under there (sand under there was a major breeding ground for the fleas). Plus the dog treated with capstar and Advantage for months.. all up it cost me around $500 to get rid of the damm fleas. Luckily my tennant only had one dog or the cost would have been much higher.

The other changes were that no dogs were allowed to visit unless they were flea free and on some kind of flea preventer. My tennant and her kids started taking off all thier shoes at the front door to stop the possibility of them walking fleas into the home. Two yrs later the place is still flea free, the dog is still on advantage and all is well.

So you have my sympathy they are a bugger to get rid of.

[shantiah]

Thanks Indigirl

I had no fleas until I moved into this house about 5 yrs ago. When we inspected the house there were no fleas but we didnt move in till a few weeks later and OMG, the fleas were horrendous. I made the landlord spray the house and yard after all kinds of threats which worked great, but now a few years on they are back.

I was thinking 1:4 would be much better but it was just that the other list said 1:2 ( and some had said 1:1, 2:1 or even undiluted ;) )

[The Flea Guru]

Hi,

I would strongly advise against treating dogs with a product designed to be used on plants, due to differences in formulation.

The MSDS for Advantage states that it contains imidacloprid & benzyl alcohol.

The MSDS for Confidor states that it contains imidacloprid, glycerin, propylene glycol, isothiazole antifungal agent, emulsifiers, stabilisers & antifungal agents. Some of these may not be safe to use on dogs.

With the number of dogs you have to treat, bathing or spraying with permethrin eg Permoxin might be an option. You can mix it up in a pressure sprayed & use it daily if necessary.

Cheers

[cowanbree]

I haven't found frontline and advantage to be working as well this year. After a battle I have brought advocate and treated all my dogs (and yes I have a few too) and also brought one of those automatic dispensers for the house that sprays every 4 minutes and things are finally looking much more postive. I also flea bombed the house which helped.

[Gayle.]

Jut wondered how the OP went with the Confidor. I've been lurking on a greyhound forum and it seems to be a very popular alternative for treating fleas....and much cheaper. Avenge sheep drench also contains the same active ingredient.

I went to the local stock supply place today to see if they had Avenge and when I told the guy there what I wanted it for, he handed me a litre of Confidor 200g/l and told me he sells bucketloads of the stuff to local greyhound trainers for flea treatments.

The Confidor cost me $80 for a litre, from my best working out, for a 20 kg dog I need 1.25 ml mixed with an equal amount of water. On one of the greyhound boards, someone suggested using an essential oil such as lavender oil. It's really just to use as a "vehicle" to help it stay on the skin while it penetrates.

[Nekhbet]

OMG do not use Confidor on your animals O_O It is not made to be put on the skin of any animal jeezus just because something has the same active ingredient does not mean it's the same. If you want to try something like Avenge it is at least made to be poured onto the skin

as for greyhound people, I've seen some of them do some absolute stupidity to save a few dollars so take their advice with a grain of salt.

Pyrethrin and permethrin(unless you have cats to which permethrin is toxic) i the safest to use and can be purchased in large quantities. Conversely Inca make things like Malaban liquid and Pestene powder which has been working really well this season

Edited April 2, 2011 by Nekhbet

[shantiah]

Jut wondered how the OP went with the Confidor. I've been lurking on a greyhound forum and it seems to be a very popular alternative for treating fleas....and much cheaper. Avenge sheep drench also contains the same active ingredient.

I went to the local stock supply place today to see if they had Avenge and when I told the guy there what I wanted it for, he handed me a litre of Confidor 200g/l and told me he sells bucketloads of the stuff to local greyhound trainers for flea treatments.

The Confidor cost me $80 for a litre, from my best working out, for a 20 kg dog I need 1.25 ml mixed with an equal amount of water. On one of the greyhound boards, someone suggested using an essential oil such as lavender oil. It's really just to use as a "vehicle" to help it stay on the skin while it penetrates.

I chickened out.

Ended up buying several packets of largest dog sized advantage and splitting it for the smaller dogs. Cost me a fortune but only needed to do it once and havent seen a flea since on the small dogs. The greyhounds still have a few fleas but they do spend alot more time out doors rolling around in the grass. Have kept the advantage up on them but have been able to stretch it out to around 6 weeks rather than monthly.

[Gayle.]

Jut wondered how the OP went with the Confidor. I've been lurking on a greyhound forum and it seems to be a very popular alternative for treating fleas....and much cheaper. Avenge sheep drench also contains the same active ingredient.

I went to the local stock supply place today to see if they had Avenge and when I told the guy there what I wanted it for, he handed me a litre of Confidor 200g/l and told me he sells bucketloads of the stuff to local greyhound trainers for flea treatments.

The Confidor cost me $80 for a litre, from my best working out, for a 20 kg dog I need 1.25 ml mixed with an equal amount of water. On one of the greyhound boards, someone suggested using an essential oil such as lavender oil. It's really just to use as a "vehicle" to help it stay on the skin while it penetrates.

I chickened out.

Ended up buying several packets of largest dog sized advantage and splitting it for the smaller dogs. Cost me a fortune but only needed to do it once and havent seen a flea since on the small dogs. The greyhounds still have a few fleas but they do spend alot more time out doors rolling around in the grass. Have kept the advantage up on them but have been able to stretch it out to around 6 weeks rather than monthly.

I bought large quantities of Frontline Plus from the US and used it on the four dogs. It worked out cheaper than buying it from the local pet shop but still an expensive exercise.

[karly101]

Why not Permoxin for horses in the 1L size?? Seen it online for $60-70 very cheap and due to dilution rates would last a long time.. also safe to apply to the skin unlike Confidor! I'd imagine much more effective as well though it is a bit more time consuming to apply.

[persephone]

If you don't have cats- permoxin works well!! We ONLY have the 'stickfast/rabbit' fleas here- notorious for surviving a lot of flea treatments ..but the permoxin does the trick ..easily and fairly cheaply . Also repels/kills flies/mozzies/brown ticks

[Gayle.]

I have two cats so anything toxic to them isn't an option. I have been doing loads of research on Imidacloprid, which is the active ingredient in Advantage, Confidor, Avenge, Merit and quite a number of other insecticides, be it for plant or animal. The other ingredients are inert substances used as carriers. There doesn't appear to be anything in Confidor that would harm an animal, it's exactly the same product as Advantage but rather than an oil as a carrier, it seems to have water and glycerine.

Still researching.

Imidacloprid itself does not have a cumulative effect on the body and seems to be quite safe to use long term.

[hortfurball]

I have two cats so anything toxic to them isn't an option. I have been doing loads of research on Imidacloprid, which is the active ingredient in Advantage, Confidor, Avenge, Merit and quite a number of other insecticides, be it for plant or animal. The other ingredients are inert substances used as carriers. There doesn't appear to be anything in Confidor that would harm an animal, it's exactly the same product as Advantage but rather than an oil as a carrier, it seems to have water and glycerine.

Still researching.

Imidacloprid itself does not have a cumulative effect on the body and seems to be quite safe to use long term.

Not all of the other ingredients are inert. I'd be avoiding the antifungals and the propylene glycol so I wouldn't put Confidor on a dog ever.

I wouldn't be stating that there doesn't seem to be anything in it to harm animals on an internet forum, some innocent could read that and believe it. Do you have a chemistry degree?

Anyway, if you are using essential oils as a carrier, might want to investigate their toxicity too, particularly as you have cats.

http://www.intheglow.com/speech.html

http://www.thelavendercat.com/3201/index.html

[Gayle.]

What do you think will happen if I use it on the dogs?

I'm reading various sites about insecticides and their toxicity. Kind of interesting. I can use the confidor on my vege garden.

[Gayle.]

I wouldn't be stating that there doesn't seem to be anything in it to harm animals on an internet forum, some innocent could read that and believe it. Do you have a chemistry degree?

You should see the rubbish that comes up in DOL forums when I Google various dog subjects. There's lots of things some innocents could read and believe.