Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 And very disappointing that the other thread I started got pulled as it had some good information in it.A shame a couple of the helpful posters aren't commenting in this one. Not sure why. Because not all breeders support the MDBA & would prefer not to get involved when there name comes up. It seems a thing of late to be promoting the MDBA in DOL like some elite group when infact it isn't & i find it misleading .There are many wonderful ANKC breeders who do wonderful things & are just as ethical if not more yep flame suit on so shoot me O.K. No worries just start new thread and dont mention the MDBA and work out what you should do about the fact that the line between registered breeder and registered breeder is lost in the sand because whether Im involved or the MDBA is mentioned its still an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 showdog, this is an honest question, how do we, as puppy buyers differentiate good ankc breeders (which i agree are definitely out there) from the dodgy ones? i think this is the issue here, it seems a bit hit and miss for puppy buyers who don;t have a lot of experience of registered breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Good idea but you also have to remember that part of your code of ethics is I shall refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices - so Im sure its not just because you might be sued. Which makes the common suggestion/recommendation of "Go speak to your Breed's Club for recommendations" a bit of a fallacy then? And possibly why when I asked about the breeder I was (back then) planning to get my boy from that I got no help/advice/comment/direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 What is the dog org in victoria that has 5 letters? One is missing from AAPB. OK went through my computer history and found it Link remeved by Troy as it gives free advertising to the organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Good idea but you also have to remember that part of your code of ethics is I shall refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices - so Im sure its not just because you might be sued. Which makes the common suggestion/recommendation of "Go speak to your Breed's Club for recommendations" a bit of a fallacy then? And possibly why when I asked about the breeder I was (back then) planning to get my boy from that I got no help/advice/comment/direction. Even if that rule wasnt there you wouldnt get anyone with any brains to say straight up someone is shonky - its a court case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 and that's exactly what I have done Staranais. My kelpie puppy is from a registered (working sheepdogs registers) breeder and has a pedigree as long as your arm. For this breed, this is the path I prefer to travel. All my other dogs are from ANKC breeders. Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. Well, to be fair, I don't either. I think your breeders are probably all great, but I've also met some great breeders who aren't MDBA members, and I wouldn't personally restrict my search for a dog to MDBA members (or to kennel club breeders, for that matter). Thats interesting - where else would you look for a good breeder? If I wanted a working dog, I'd personally be happy in some breeds to look at a non-kennel club affiliated breeder. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well that is just a way of shutting the good people up. Do only good people say bad things? Seems a bit contradictory to me. It is the same in the Law Society. If you say something bad about another lawyer you are made to be silent as legal practitioners are not supposed to say anything that could bring the profession into DISREPUTE. Never mind the fact that a lawyer/legal practitioner could be actually DOING THE WRONG thing. We just must not talk about it. How very uncivilized to do so!!! Could you stop shouting at people, please? Aside from the rudeness, it makes me simply not want to get into your posts because it's always so over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well that is just a way of shutting the good people up. Do only good people say bad things? Seems a bit contradictory to me. It is the same in the Law Society. If you say something bad about another lawyer you are made to be silent as legal practitioners are not supposed to say anything that could bring the profession into DISREPUTE. Never mind the fact that a lawyer/legal practitioner could be actually DOING THE WRONG thing. We just must not talk about it. How very uncivilized to do so!!! Could you stop shouting at people, please? Aside from the rudeness, it makes me simply not want to get into your posts because it's always so over the top. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Problem is that being seen to be doing the wrong thing by one criteria isnt necessarily doing the wrong thing. Some people have definite views on what is and isnt the 'RIGHT' thing which dont fit in with what I think is the right thing. Its about ethics and a code is a basic minimum of what a breeder has to comply with there's a lot more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Problem is that being seen to be doing the wrong thing by one criteria isnt necessarily doing the wrong thing. Some people have definite views on what is and isnt the 'RIGHT' thing which dont fit in with what I think is the right thing. Its about ethics and a code is a basic minimum of what a breeder has to comply with there's a lot more to it than that. i agree steve. there seems to be a lot of "rules on the run" where people put their own values and ethics onto breeders when actually the breeders are doing nothing wrong. i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. just because we don't like something that is happening doesn't make it unlawful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. I really don't think that Joe Average will give two hoots about a registry's COE Joe Average wants a pup, he wants it now, and he doesn't want papers because he has no plans to breed or show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. I really don't think that Joe Average will give two hoots about a registry's COE Joe Average wants a pup, he wants it now, and he doesn't want papers because he has no plans to breed or show. then they deserve all the heartache this lack of education will cause them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. Does the MDBA have more than the 13 breeder members listed on their site and if so how does a member of the public find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. I really don't think that Joe Average will give two hoots about a registry's COE Joe Average wants a pup, he wants it now, and he doesn't want papers because he has no plans to breed or show. I think that a lot of people are interested, but it gets put in the too hard basket because as you say, they want a pup and they want it now. I was thinking that a website could be a good idea, not hosted by any of these registering bodies, just something in plain English. If, when Joe Average goes to google and types in 'puppies australia' and a site comes up with general information about this kind of stuff, would that help? It can't be something that is swayed in one direction, it cannot really promote purebred dogs, it would just have to give facts. How to get the site to show up high in search results is a different matter entirely! For example, a diet/care sheet is required in a few of these bodies. I am thinking that something along the lines of... "A breeder should provide you with information about what food your puppy is currently being given. It is important to give your puppy a nutritious diet to ensure that it grows properly. A sudden change in diet can cause an upset stomach, so this information is important when you bring your puppy home"... would get the message across better than telling them to go read a COE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 then they deserve all the heartache this lack of education will cause them How often does the average puppy buyer end up with heartache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. I really don't think that Joe Average will give two hoots about a registry's COE Joe Average wants a pup, he wants it now, and he doesn't want papers because he has no plans to breed or show. I think that a lot of people are interested, but it gets put in the too hard basket because as you say, they want a pup and they want it now. I was thinking that a website could be a good idea, not hosted by any of these registering bodies, just something in plain English. If, when Joe Average goes to google and types in 'puppies australia' and a site comes up with general information about this kind of stuff, would that help? It can't be something that is swayed in one direction, it cannot really promote purebred dogs, it would just have to give facts. How to get the site to show up high in search results is a different matter entirely! For example, a diet/care sheet is required in a few of these bodies. I am thinking that something along the lines of... "A breeder should provide you with information about what food your puppy is currently being given. It is important to give your puppy a nutritious diet to ensure that it grows properly. A sudden change in diet can cause an upset stomach, so this information is important when you bring your puppy home"... would get the message across better than telling them to go read a COE. Many of the puppy farmers do just that. They are still puppy farmers. It is a way of making them look good. Smoke and Mirrors and a scam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) then they deserve all the heartache this lack of education will cause them How often does the average puppy buyer end up with heartache very often if you read past dol posts. no health/dna testing mean a higher incidence of illness and vet bills and reduced life span no knowledge of parentage or no breeding for temperament can mean a dog with weak nerve which could be pts due to aggression or fear issues Edited January 8, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 very often if you read past dol posts. no health/dna testing mean a higher incidence of illness and vet bills and reduced life span Is that right? How do you know? From reading this dog forum? If we are talking anecdotal what about the people who buy from backyarders and shonky breeders/puppy farms who have a great dog and couldn't be happier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i think people need to read the CoE for each group so they can understand the right rules. then maybe they will understand the complexity of this issue. I really don't think that Joe Average will give two hoots about a registry's COE Joe Average wants a pup, he wants it now, and he doesn't want papers because he has no plans to breed or show. I think that a lot of people are interested, but it gets put in the too hard basket because as you say, they want a pup and they want it now. I was thinking that a website could be a good idea, not hosted by any of these registering bodies, just something in plain English. If, when Joe Average goes to google and types in 'puppies australia' and a site comes up with general information about this kind of stuff, would that help? It can't be something that is swayed in one direction, it cannot really promote purebred dogs, it would just have to give facts. How to get the site to show up high in search results is a different matter entirely! For example, a diet/care sheet is required in a few of these bodies. I am thinking that something along the lines of... "A breeder should provide you with information about what food your puppy is currently being given. It is important to give your puppy a nutritious diet to ensure that it grows properly. A sudden change in diet can cause an upset stomach, so this information is important when you bring your puppy home"... would get the message across better than telling them to go read a COE. Many of the puppy farmers do just that. They are still puppy farmers. It is a way of making them look good. Smoke and Mirrors and a scam Still smoke and mirrors if it is correct information? Including information about purebred vs pedigree? If these things draw people in then maybe someone else needs to do it besides the puppy farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 very often if you read past dol posts. no health/dna testing mean a higher incidence of illness and vet bills and reduced life span Is that right? How do you know? From reading this dog forum? If we are talking anecdotal what about the people who buy from backyarders and shonky breeders/puppy farms who have a great dog and couldn't be happier? Logic dictates that if you buy a dog whose parents are not health tested it has a higher chance of carrying a genetic disease than from parents who have been eliminated from carrying those genes. Sure there'll be some dogs who never develop any health issues, statistically that will happen. But it isn't rocket surgery, if a breeder sets out to only breed from dogs that don't carry a gene then the puppies won't carry it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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