Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 You can say so generally but not specifically. Its about showing the positive and not getting into bagging out any you think are rotten.When a breeder starts putting down a competitor even if they have good reason most hearing it dont judge the one they are putting down they judge the one doing the putting down. Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure if I agree, though I can see your point. For example, if I was new to dogs and I said "I'm thinking of getting a dog from breeder X!", I think it's good if my MDBA friend could say "well I'd think twice about that since breeder X doesn't hip score, and it's very important in your breed, also I've met her stud dog and it bit me". You know? A person who is your friend giving you private advice is different to someone ringing up enquiring about buying a puppy and half the conversation is taken up with accusations about why they shouldnt go to another breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) You can say so generally but not specifically. Its about showing the positive and not getting into bagging out any you think are rotten.When a breeder starts putting down a competitor even if they have good reason most hearing it dont judge the one they are putting down they judge the one doing the putting down. Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure if I agree, though I can see your point. For example, if I was new to dogs and I said "I'm thinking of getting a dog from breeder X!", I think it's good if my MDBA friend could say "well I'd think twice about that since breeder X doesn't hip score, and it's very important in your breed, also I've met her stud dog and it bit me". You know? A person who is your friend giving you private advice is different to someone ringing up enquiring about buying a puppy and half the conversation is taken up with accusations about why they shouldnt go to another breeder. Yeah that's very true - where do you draw the line with the MDBA COE, though? ETA - oh sorry, just read Amanda's post that it's an ANKC not a MDBA rule, so perhaps this question is in the wrong thread! Edited January 8, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 You can say so generally but not specifically. Its about showing the positive and not getting into bagging out any you think are rotten.When a breeder starts putting down a competitor even if they have good reason most hearing it dont judge the one they are putting down they judge the one doing the putting down. Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure if I agree, though I can see your point. For example, if I was new to dogs and I said "I'm thinking of getting a dog from breeder X!", I think it's good if my MDBA friend could say "well I'd think twice about that since breeder X doesn't hip score, and it's very important in your breed, also I've met her stud dog and it bit me". You know? A person who is your friend giving you private advice is different to someone ringing up enquiring about buying a puppy and half the conversation is taken up with accusations about why they shouldnt go to another breeder. Yeah that's very true - where do you draw the line with the MDBA COE, though? So far it hasnt happened.No one minds what is said among people you know privately but If Ive got someone who comes into a forum and mnames a breeder and goes about trying to make their lives horrible I dont think thats on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 You can say so generally but not specifically. Its about showing the positive and not getting into bagging out any you think are rotten.When a breeder starts putting down a competitor even if they have good reason most hearing it dont judge the one they are putting down they judge the one doing the putting down. Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure if I agree, though I can see your point. For example, if I was new to dogs and I said "I'm thinking of getting a dog from breeder X!", I think it's good if my MDBA friend could say "well I'd think twice about that since breeder X doesn't hip score, and it's very important in your breed, also I've met her stud dog and it bit me". You know? A person who is your friend giving you private advice is different to someone ringing up enquiring about buying a puppy and half the conversation is taken up with accusations about why they shouldnt go to another breeder. Yeah that's very true - where do you draw the line with the MDBA COE, though? ETA - oh sorry, just read Amanda's post that it's an ANKC not a MDBA rule, so perhaps this question is in the wrong thread! Its both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feistylady Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I am very grateful for this topic it will certainly help me sort out and better understanding about breeders. Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. Well, to be fair, I don't either. I think your breeders are probably all great, but I've also met some great breeders who aren't MDBA members, and I wouldn't personally restrict my search for a dog to MDBA members (or to kennel club breeders, for that matter). Thats interesting - where else would you look for a good breeder? THAT is the number one question!!! Where do you go?? It is so confusing to the general public. I am a well-educated person and it is very confusing, so the average punter would have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 I am very grateful for this topic it will certainly help me sort out and better understanding about breeders.Thankyou For a long time many things associated with this topic is folk law.People assume what a code of conduct says and means - even those who agreed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I would be interested in becoming more informed about this. I feel like I did my research. But I didn't realise the extent to which you could register outside of the ANKC. I felt when looking for my puppy that ANKC registration was the only sort of value. I assume to some extent I might be right, but some of the types of group names you mentioned "sound good". That brings a new level of confusion!! When things sound good/official people arre often inclined (rightlyor wrongly) to believe that they are.I agree that there does need to be some sort of clarification/differentiation in terminology that makes it a bit more clear to people who they are dealing with and what standards they abide by. I appreciate anything I can learn about this because it sounds like it is becoming a very complex issue from one that used to be straightforward (from my limited understanding of how it used to be!). And very disappointing that the other thread I started got pulled as it had some good information in it. A shame a couple of the helpful posters aren't commenting in this one. Not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm more than happy to give recommendations to people and to explain why I'm recommending a particular breeder, but when I'm asked about a breeder I WON'T recommend I'm forced to stay silent. We have one "breeder" (term used with gritted teeth) who has been known to threaten to sue people and she's registered!Perhaps all MDBA members could include our codes of ethics on our websites?? - show people on the site what proper papers look like and explain it - use our websites to educate people??? Good idea but you also have to remember that part of your code of ethics is I shall refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices - so Im sure its not just because you might be sued. Well that is just a way of shutting the good people up. It is the same in the Law Society. If you say something bad about another lawyer you are made to be silent as legal practitioners are not supposed to say anything that could bring the profession into DISREPUTE. Never mind the fact that a lawyer/legal practitioner could be actually DOING THE WRONG thing. We just must not talk about it. How very uncivilized to do so!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Where do you go is about what you are willing to accept from a breeder not just what they do with your dog but with their own dog and the others they breed. Its about what you want the dog for ,your life style and your expections. Some people dont look at anything more than the obvious. If for example you are against a breeder selling puppies to pet shops and you dont want to buy a pup from them - as one of the things you are not prepared to compromise on: As group breeders can and do sell puppies to pet shops so you need to ask them if they do - though in reality most registered breeders who do wont own up. Some sell litter lots to a pet shop over seas and use the fact they export as a medal of honour. People who get sucked in by that sales pitch believe it something to be proud of . Cant balme them for that because usually if someone can export its a sign of a quality product. You cant assume they dont unless they are members of a group which prohibits their members from selling to pet shops. Read their codes Of conduct and see what they can and cant do and dont assume anything or believe anyone until you do that for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. You're right, I don't. I don't either. Honestly, making people keep up to date with and pay multiple registrations and memberships every year (ANKC, MDBA, Council, any others that get invented...) doesn't preclude them from doing the wrong thing. It just makes life difficult for people who make sure they always do the right thing. I don't know what the simple answer is, if there is one. But punishing the honest people through additional fees and paperwok isn't it. Edited January 8, 2011 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) I'm more than happy to give recommendations to people and to explain why I'm recommending a particular breeder, but when I'm asked about a breeder I WON'T recommend I'm forced to stay silent. We have one "breeder" (term used with gritted teeth) who has been known to threaten to sue people and she's registered!Perhaps all MDBA members could include our codes of ethics on our websites?? - show people on the site what proper papers look like and explain it - use our websites to educate people??? Good idea but you also have to remember that part of your code of ethics is I shall refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices - so Im sure its not just because you might be sued. Well that is just a way of shutting the good people up. It is the same in the Law Society. If you say something bad about another lawyer you are made to be silent as legal practitioners are not supposed to say anything that could bring the profession into DISREPUTE. Never mind the fact that a lawyer/legal practitioner could be actually DOING THE WRONG thing. We just must not talk about it. How very uncivilized to do so!!! You can still get the message across without actually going after that one person. You can say what you do and what some do generally and what the buyer needs to ask and be aware of without specifically saying its that particular person.Give them enough info to work it out themselves. Edited January 8, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. You're right, I don't. I don't either. Honestly, making people keep up to date with and pay multiple registrations and memberships every year (ANKC, MDBA, Council, any others that get invented...) doesn't preclude them from doing the wrong thing. It just makes life difficult for people who make sure they always do the right thing. I don't know what the simple answer is, if there is one. But punishing the honest people through additional fees and paperwok isn't it. I know that so how do you suggest we make a distinction for the public between you and a puppy farmer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You can still get the message across without actually going after that one person.You can say what you do and what some do generally and what the buyer needs to ask and be aware of without specifically saying its that particular person.Give them enough info to work it out themselves. That is assuming they are smart enough to do so. Many don't want to read pages of codes of ethics, they just want a pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Part of the trick is knowing who to talk to. The biggest problem with that is that most people don't have the faintest idea who to ask and just as importantly what to ask. If someone asks me I will generally send them to the breed club. Which isn't full proof of course but they will generally get guided towards someone who is reputable. I rarely come straight out and say go to this person unless someone comes to me asking specifically for a dog of my own breed for dog sports. What I've learnt over the years is if someone is known to be a bit off in some way other people in the breed will instantly go quiet when they are asked about them. Of course there's politics where ever there are humans thats just how it is, so you have to listen a bit to what's not being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. You're right, I don't. I don't either. Honestly, making people keep up to date with and pay multiple registrations and memberships every year (ANKC, MDBA, Council, any others that get invented...) doesn't preclude them from doing the wrong thing. It just makes life difficult for people who make sure they always do the right thing. I don't know what the simple answer is, if there is one. But punishing the honest people through additional fees and paperwok isn't it. YOU got that in ONe. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Part of the trick is knowing who to talk to. The biggest problem with that is that most people don't have the faintest idea who to ask and just as importantly what to ask. If someone asks me I will generally send them to the breed club. Which isn't full proof of course but they will generally get guided towards someone who is reputable. I rarely come straight out and say go to this person unless someone comes to me asking specifically for a dog of my own breed for dog sports.What I've learnt over the years is if someone is known to be a bit off in some way other people in the breed will instantly go quiet when they are asked about them. Of course there's politics where ever there are humans thats just how it is, so you have to listen a bit to what's not being said. that was my experience when looking for a breeder. i carefully listened and figured out who not to go to. i respected breeders for the way they gave me information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And very disappointing that the other thread I started got pulled as it had some good information in it.A shame a couple of the helpful posters aren't commenting in this one. Not sure why. Because not all breeders support the MDBA & would prefer not to get involved when there name comes up. It seems a thing of late to be promoting the MDBA in DOL like some elite group when infact it isn't & i find it misleading .There are many wonderful ANKC breeders who do wonderful things & are just as ethical if not more yep flame suit on so shoot me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 You can still get the message across without actually going after that one person.You can say what you do and what some do generally and what the buyer needs to ask and be aware of without specifically saying its that particular person.Give them enough info to work it out themselves. That is assuming they are smart enough to do so. Many don't want to read pages of codes of ethics, they just want a pup. When someone ring here for a puppy I tell them to go and speak to other breeders and I tell them what to ask them and what to listen for. I dont say hell dont go to that one because they suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And very disappointing that the other thread I started got pulled as it had some good information in it.A shame a couple of the helpful posters aren't commenting in this one. Not sure why. Because not all breeders support the MDBA & would prefer not to get involved when there name comes up. It seems a thing of late to be promoting the MDBA in DOL like some elite group when infact it isn't & i find it misleading .There are many wonderful ANKC breeders who do wonderful things & are just as ethical if not more yep flame suit on so shoot me Well I posted that other thread as I thought I could do something about a puppy farmer or byb and I thought if they were registerd I could report them and get them UNREGISTERED. NOT SO. It seems. I am coping all useful comments in this thread to word in case this one gets pulled too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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