Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The wheel has already been invented, why would you try and invent it again? Because the current one doesn't seem to be working very well, does it? Or do you think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 So we should scrap it and try a different shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 That's a bit how I feel too. A sort of elitism if you will. There is nothing wrong with aspiring to be elite, but buying a membership to say you are is what im against. Being an elite/accredited breeder should be like a life membership, a badge of honor awarded to you from those within - In this case the ANKC. This is achieved by your morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment not something you can buy. .... Are you saying membership to the ANKC is free? And/or are you saying that the "good/better" (so to speak) breeders are the ones who have been offered life membership by the ANKC? So only those whom the ANKC decides to award this honour to can share the "elitist/accreditation" category that you speak of? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 So we should scrap it and try a different shape? Well I can see one thing happening that was not happening before. A bunch of people coming together and saying "let's fix the old one". Ok. Fix it. If it is better than what the MDBA has to offer and works better, then what is everyone afraid of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 showdog i understood that mdba members had a greater burden on them rather than being above the law How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them just because something is allowed does not mean people take advantage of it, I'd wager most ANKC breeders don't sell to PIAA petshops due to their own personal ethics, they too then have have one less point of sale. Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple! And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. oh for goodness sake. get a grip. after all of us trying to help you still don't get it so what is you agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The wheel has already been invented, why would you try and invent it again? Because the current one doesn't seem to be working very well, does it? Or do you think it is? I'm not sure how paying a private company so breeders can self-describe as 'master dog breeders' is a new wheel? After all, it's not an industry or accredited organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple!And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 showdog i understood that mdba members had a greater burden on them rather than being above the law How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them And you think an ethical ANKC breeder would? Selling to a pet shop wouldn't even enter the equation for the majority of ethical ANKC breeders. no of course not. this is not about breeders but the organisations. the ankc organisation says it is ok for its members to sell to PIAA pet shops. i know ethical ankc breeders would never do this and i assume they are not happy this is part of their code of ethics. the reality is though that the ankc has no problems if its members does sell to pet shops and this is what i am talking about Because the ANKC is an organisation, they can not legally restrict freedom of trade. It's not about allowing people to do it, they have to allow them to sell them to the 14 accredited pet shops should breeders wish to. Not something I agree with. i know sway you and other breeders don't like it one bit and for some of the puppy buying public it;s a confusion that could be done without. i wonder how the ankc could restrict trade to only PIAA pet shops and still be within the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateshep Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have a quick question for Steve about the MDBA.Is the MDBA going to be working with/accepting breeders of unregistered pure-breds or working dogs, or only if they are planning to seek approval as a recognised breed by ANKC ? Do you mean not registered at all or not registered with the ANKC ? Both. Eg Kelpies( recognised breed) bred as working dogs but that are not registered with ANKC and unrecognised breeds ( and neither circumstances want to be ANKC registered- just left as they are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 So only activists are real dog lovers? Question: are you kind of new to all this stuff? I'm reading 'convert' of some sort from your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The wheel has already been invented, why would you try and invent it again? Because the current one doesn't seem to be working very well, does it? Or do you think it is? There is certainly room for improvement, as I said why not join it and help it to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 So for greedy unethical people, they can pay for as many memberships as they like, tell the right people all the stuff they want to hear, and still sell whatever pups they want to wherever they want. It makes not one spot of difference. Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. If people are able to cook up illegal drugs every day and make a profit at the expense of human safety and life and get away with it, you can be damn sure that puppy breeders can do it. couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Now do you see why I was asking her for more information about her beliefs. I doubt she is able to integrate anything we say and it is probably a waste of time trying to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 So we should scrap it and try a different shape? We're not saying scrap it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D & D Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 showdog i understood that mdba members had a greater burden on them rather than being above the law How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them just because something is allowed does not mean people take advantage of it, I'd wager most ANKC breeders don't sell to PIAA petshops due to their own personal ethics, they too then have have one less point of sale. Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple! And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. oh for goodness sake. get a grip. after all of us trying to help you still don't get it so what is your agenda? Annie, are you for real? Are school holidays becoming somewhat boring? Perhaps if you read the replies before posting, you'd be a bit more believeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple!And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 this is madness you have got to be joking. militants of any persuasion are totally against my ethics and i deplore those tactics and anyone who undertakes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 So only activists are real dog lovers? Question: are you kind of new to all this stuff? I'm reading 'convert' of some sort from your posts. No not all activists are the only dog lovers at all. But they have got real balls to go and get punched in the head to expose the cruelty of puppy farms. I know it is political and there are some nutters in the activists but overall I think they have balls and I take my hat off to people who are in my opinion, incredibly brave. I an a convert to being VERY anti puppy farms and BYB. As i said previously, I abhore puppies and kittens being used as commodities with no concern for their welfare (or that of breeding females) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple!And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ? cause Annie said I should if I wanted to prove I was ethical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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