SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm sure there are quite a few non-MDBA members that meet the additional criteria as well.....and probably go a step further than that for their puppy buyers. Steve : Of course there are but how do we know who they are? Whippets : ah so there is an agenda. .... The agenda being a mode by which to make obtaining a puppy from good breeders perhaps a little bit less than the Russian Roullete game that I felt it was when it was my turn to purchase a puppy? What's wrong with that? . Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one? To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one?To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. I suppose it depends on how breeders and the puppy-buying public regard self-description. Edited January 9, 2011 by Sheridan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm sure there are quite a few non-MDBA members that meet the additional criteria as well.....and probably go a step further than that for their puppy buyers. Steve : Of course there are but how do we know who they are? Whippets : ah so there is an agenda. .... The agenda being a mode by which to make obtaining a puppy from good breeders perhaps a little bit less than the Russian Roullete game that I felt it was when it was my turn to purchase a puppy? What's wrong with that? . Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one? To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. That's a bit how I feel too. A sort of elitism if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 And the other thing I'm really puzzled about ..... It's not that long ago and for quite some time there have been numerous threads started where many people have contributed by expressing their grave concerns, anger, disapproval, disenchantment, distrust and more ... about laws that have come in; why their State Body, ANKC or any other org come in to help them and do something either to stop it or about it. Now there's a chance for that "Body" to be formed and from the get go it is receiving a beating before it has even got off the ground, with the general consensus of feeling that I am getting from here and that seems to be that the current formula, whilst not perfect, will do and that people don't want any other? I'm a dog trainer, not a breeder, so perhaps I'm not seeing things from the angle many of the other of you are. BUT (not yelling) I am a dog purchaser and have had a small experience in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one? Because when it comes to things such as laws and you ask the organisation behind the "current system" why it didn't step in to stop a ludicrous law from sliding throughand it answers "because you know you have to be nice to Government sometimes' .............. what hope has that "current system" got? Where would you start (and how) to clean up the current system to improve it and when would it get done, how long would it take? Edited January 9, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) That's a bit how I feel too. A sort of elitism if you will. That might potentially be how some BYB's first saw the ANKC way back when it was formed/forming ????? Maybe ??? MDBA is not being elitist. You do have the opportunity to join them. Edited January 9, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one?To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. Exactly SwaY I have alot of ideas as to how that can be done, but I am just one person. Things sure has heck wouldnt change over night and it may take years but change is what is needed NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one?To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. Exactly SwaY I have alot of ideas as to how that can be done, but I am just one person. Things sure has heck wouldnt change over night and it may take years but change is what is needed NOW! Change was needed 6 years ago. So now that MDBA is stepping up as a registry, all of a sudden things can change with the old one? Do we just continue to wait or do we give a new registry the chance to get up there and make a difference for us all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Change was needed 6 years ago. So now that MDBA is stepping up as a registry, all of a sudden things can change with the old one? Do we just continue to wait or do we give a new registry the chance to get up there and make a difference for us all? And how will it do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) do we give a new registry the chance to get up there...? 'We' = those who want to join. There's nothing stopping those folk doing that. Edited January 9, 2011 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it? I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 That's a bit how I feel too. A sort of elitism if you will. There is nothing wrong with aspiring to be elite, but buying a membership to say you are is what im against. Being an elite/accredited breeder should be like a life membership, a badge of honor awarded to you from those within - In this case the ANKC. This is achieved by your morals, ethics, knowledge and commitment not something you can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one? Because when it comes to things such as laws and you ask the organisation behind the "current system" why it didn't step in to stop a ludicrous law from sliding throughand it answers "because you know you have to be nice to Government sometimes' .............. what hope has that "current system" got? Where would you start (and how) to clean up the current system to improve it and when would it get done, how long would it take? Why not get on committee and change things from within, rather then from out??? How many of those behind the MDBA have stood for ANKC nominations? The wheel has already been invented, why would you try and invent it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it?I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. No thats not how you become a BREEDER member [not shouting] or a Rescue member or professional member - if you go back a bit you will see what has to happen before anyone gets in or stays in as a breeder or rescue person. If you agree to a code of conduct you can just pay and join as a pet owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it?I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. Yes you can buy it. Unless they are checking everyone's back yard the rotten eggs can still slip through. Look at some of the MDBA awards handed out, some of them are a little less then squeaky clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Why not work with the current system to improve it rather then start another one? To me it's like Steve (and a few others) are putting the MDBA members in one corner and non-MDBA breeders in another corner, Whether they be ANKC breeders, BYB's and/or puppy farmers. We are not putting MDBA members in one corner and non MDBA members in another - that's being done by others. Are accredited breeders in one corner and all others in another, are people who belong to breed clubs putting themselves in one corner and those who are not part of their club in another ? Is ANKC in one corner and AAPDB in another? Where is the problem ? Why should we have to be bullied into doing what we are told to do and try to change the system to try to find solutions to what we see as issues? We knew the system couldn’t be changed the way we felt comfortable with because the laws prevent it from happening even if anyone was open to it and we wanted to provide more resources and tools to people who wanted to access them. People speak as if this is a new thing and yet its been around for over 6 years and we have worked are backsides off trying to promote purebred dogs and registered breeders . We have encouraged people to become registered with their state's CCs and supported and been in advocating the same things as the ANKC beside them and the state CCs in everything we have done but because we wanted to introduce something to help our members profile their pedigrees providing information in a registry which isn’t provided by anyone else for all breeds and make it with a greater focus on health and temperament for the benefit of our dogs we see the craziest reaction and accusations. For 6 years people have had a choice on whether you joined or not and I haven’t noticed anyone racing around saying anything against any of you personally who didn’t - in fact as previously stated we couldn’t even if we wanted to. We don’t promote breeders who are not our members any more than any group promotes people who are not their members and if that’s being in our own corner there really not that much to be done about that any more than there is for any other group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it?I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. when I joined I had to write a letter outlining my aims etc and that I agreed with their COE and yes pay a fee. If they didn't like what I wrote then I wouldn't have been accepted, nor obviously, paid a fee. I am not sure if things have changed since then. I don't recall anyone ringing me and I know no one came and inspected me, the dogs, the house, the kennels or asked for any evidence when I had my 1st litter nearly two years ago that I was actually following their COE. They trusted I was who I said I was and doing what I said I would do. And I did. Cause my ethics did/do pretty well match theirs. eta missed a word Edited January 9, 2011 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it?I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. Before anyone gets into the MDBA as a breeder member, a rescue member, or a professional member they have to agree to a code of conduct and demonstrate they understand what they are agreeing to and we screen them. They have to tell us their breeding philosophies, what they do, their goals, their challenges etc. We take references from their puppy and dog buyers, we give their buyers free membership and we get to know the people they have sold puppies to. This week Ive spoken with 8 puppy buyers 6 different breeds for another reason who have told me loud and clear what they think of their breeders and sung their praises and were eager to tell me about the breeder's practices. Every suggestion of something not quite right is looked into and every complaint is investigated [ and we have a private investigator on retainer]. We have refused entry to some , we have recommended some go and do our Introduction to Canine breeding - in particular the ethics unit and come back if they think they would still like to join. We have removed 3 breeders from our membership and one rescue group and one professional member. So I know their practices as much as it is possible for me or anyone to know their practices and if I find out Im wrong they are gone. I dont recommend one MDBA breeder over another one MDBA rescue group or one MDBA professional member over any other I give the options and let the buyer/ client decide because if I wasnt prepared to recommend them equally they wouldnt be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 What i am curious is when the MDBA start creating there own breed standards then what happens to the general public in deciding which one is right??Then when you add this how are the public suppose to decide who is right Foundation RegistryThe purpose of the Foundation Registry is for new breeds which are in an early developmental stage and in which record keeping is vital to the history of the breed. The registration of these breeds will provide an accurate, precise chronicle of the breed's progress and development, and may prove or disprove its future acceptance as a viable, healthy breed as well as providing analysis of any genetic problems inherent in a particular breeding program. Use of both hybrid crosses and outcrosses to dogs of unknown or unregistered parentage is permitted. There are no limitations or restrictions on the breeding programs for these breeds. Breed standards will not be accepted unless the welfare aspects are addressed as well as all others. So does them mean you can be a Schnnodle(DDB) breeder ?? & recognized with the MDBA The MDBA are creating and writing their own standards for each breed to be able to be registered - that is we are working out for each breed what tests we are going to make mandatory and what is going to be recommended. There is no need for you to worry about people being confused about which breed standard because breed standards are not being altered. No dog can be placed on the stud registry unless it is a main registered dog with an approved registry - You can not be a schnoodle breeder and be an MDBA member. If you are working on a new breed you are able to place the dogs on the Foundation registry to enable you to do exactly what you can do now with the ANKC - seek breed recognition when you get to that. Allowing people to work on that under our supervision means they can use our data base to track genetic issues , health or temperament way before it gets to a request for recoginition.And they dont get to even be a starter unless they can present the breeding program and show how they intend to proceed to get to a new breed and what you can do with any puppies produced along the way is restricted too. To suggest that what we intend to do is to allow schnoodle breeders to be recognised is a mile away from reality and in fact its an attempt at showing people the difference between a schnoodle breeder and breeder who is working within a frame work to develop a new breed. This concept isnt new over seas it just something the ANKC havent provided as they usually show no interest until the application goes in for recognition - that doesnt mean the process of getting there isnt the same or that its not a good thing for us to be involved before that. So what exactly can they breed under the registry that is from unknown or unregistered parentage ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Excuse my ignorance, and maybe Steve is about to give me an answer. But isn't membership to the MDBA just purchased? Can't I just go to the website and pay for it?I don't understand how they guarantee any more scrutiny of their members than the ANKC and State bodies? Don't want to completely derail the topic, if there's a simple explanation or a link somewhere that would be great. Yes you can buy it. Unless they are checking everyone's back yard the rotten eggs can still slip through. Look at some of the MDBA awards handed out, some of them are a little less then squeaky clean. I hope that was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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