10 Week Puppy Woes

[kyliegirl]

I am in a spot of frustration, even the OH came in this morning and mumbled "this dog is impossible" with an annoyed look on his face. We are having serious issues with focus. I thought I was doing everything by the book, I have tried to make the clicker a high value reward, yet the puppy will maybe stick around for 20 seconds before something (or nothing) catches his interest and he looks away or jumps off to nothing.

Currently trying to teach him to not jump up, to not mouth us and to just sit are all a challenge at the moment.. I am at a loss, I feel like I am trying to train my cat, he has no real interest at all in learning and he has no food which he considers of good enough value to keep working for. He isn't food driven, and he is toy driven to a point, pats are nice to him, but again not things he will continuously work for and seems to be perfectly fine with ignoring them.

I know I have had him a week but over these past few days me and my Oh are sitting down frustrated as the puppy just doesn't seem to get it.. Even when training on lead in the most boring place with nothing around him he would rather look around and sniff about than to offer a behaviour for a reward. I try to keep it all in 5 minute bouts, but I am lucky if he does it for 2 minutes without being distracted.

I need help :/ I feel like I am at conflict with this puppy and not enjoying training at all because I keep feeling let down. I see people who have achieved a lovely sit on command in just 4 - 5 min sessions in a day with an 8 week puppy, I have had maybe 10-15 sessions now in 5 days and he still hasn't made a link between sitting and the hand signal/lure/command.

Edited January 6, 2011 by kyliegirl

[persephone]

yet the puppy will maybe stick around for 20 seconds before something (or nothing) catches his interest and he looks away or jumps off to nothing.

Sounds normal to me .

I have never done clicker training so can't help....

he is but a baby ... and depending on breed- may be more a baby than others of the same age .....

[PAX]

Even when training on lead in the most boring place with nothing around him he would rather look around and sniff about than to offer a behaviour for a reward. I try to keep it all in 5 minute bouts, but I am lucky if he does it for 2 minutes without being distracted.

I need help :/ I feel like I am at conflict with this puppy and not enjoying training at all because I keep feeling let down. I see people who have achieved a lovely sit on command in just 4 - 5 min sessions in a day with an 8 week puppy, I have had maybe 10-15 sessions now in 5 days and he still hasn't made a link between sitting and the hand signal/lure/command.

If he will only concentrate for 2 minutes, stop at 1 minute, quit while he still wants to do more. Play, play, play, get him addicted to a game before you bring in rules.

All dogs are different, you need to build desire for things he adores, some dogs this is instant and some take more time. Make sure you are providing the most fun in his day, don't let him get his own self rewards.

ETA, the clicker is not the reward, just the reward marker, you need to pair it with something he wants.

Edited January 6, 2011 by PAX

[Leema]

It takes about a week for a puppy to set into a new home.

If he doesn't like food, only feed him during training session. He'll soon learn that he does like food when it is limited to his efforts!

I couldn't get any training out of Clover from 8-9 weeks, and then it suddenly all came together.

I know when you get a new dog, it is often a time of tension... Things suddenly look hard, sometimes you wonder if you've done the right thing, and when training doesn't seem to be working, it is frustrating too!

Feel free to PM if you'd like. But your puppy sounds normal - just give him some time.

[Erny]

He's been of this earth for a total of 10 weeks and with you for (I assume) a total of 1 whole week. New home. New family. New noises. No litter mates. Everything is different. His brain and his senses are developing.

Be happy with extremely short bursts of training - a minute or two at a time and don't expect him to hold focus at this stage. Practice the "Triangle of Temptation" (this is great for teaching focus) and be just work within the capabilities of the pup. Reward for that very short moment of focus. Expecting even two minutes of focus is a long time for a 10 week old pup, IMO.

And worry more about habituating your pup to the world with all its noises, sights and sensations. This by itself should keep you and puppy very busy if you think of all the things you might want your pup to be "ok" about as an adult dog.

If you understand that your expectations of your pup are a bit too unrealistic, you might find the conflict you are feeling will disappear and that your pup's training will progress faster than you realise.

[kyliegirl]

I have tried pax, I get him to offer behaviours to continue playing tug and will stop playing until he releases and offers a behaviour and play again, this works for a short time. As I said though, he doesn't seem to find playing/food/attention too big of a value either and will stop suddenly without any warning.

He is a dobermann puppy so I thought he would have picked things up a little quicker, at the moment this appears to be the opposite.

I will try to reduce the time on training and try not to push too far, I might be setting my expectations a little high :/ I shall adjust this.. thanks for the info!

I understand he has only been here a week, but he appears to have settled quite quickly with minimal whining and has settled to the sounds of low flying planes, people walking along the back fence and native birds. I have been doing the triangle of temptation, surprisingly that has been quite successful and today was the first day he sat and looked at me instead of the food the second it was placed down.

Edited January 6, 2011 by kyliegirl

[sas]

Sounds like a normal puppy.

Can I make a comment that all the stiffing you're seeing could actually be calming signals because you're frustrated and angry.

If you're not having any luck training the puppy and you want to do clicker training, contact a positive trainer to help you, you may not actually be doing it correctly.

If the puppy has a 20 second attention span then do a 10 second clicker session and build up over time.

If you've only had the puppy for a week have you considered the puppy is not clicker conditioned yet, sounds like you get ffrustrated easy and therefore may not have been patient enough to keep going with conditioning until the dog got it - they all take different amounts of time.

With new fosters, I usually just clicker condition for a week and then work on attention and then basic obedience.

[kyliegirl]

Hi sas, I knew he wasnt clicker conditioned when he got home, I did the charging clicker method and he understands a click means reward, but he seems to lose interest of being rewarded.. As I said like training a cat lol. I will reduce training times. Thanks!

[PAX]

I have tried pax, I get him to offer behaviours to continue playing tug and will stop playing until he releases and offers a behaviour and play again, this works for a short time. As I said though, he doesn't seem to find playing/food/attention too big of a value either and will stop suddenly without any warning.

He is a dobermann puppy so I thought he would have picked things up a little quicker, at the moment this appears to be the opposite.

I will try to reduce the time on training and try not to push too far, I might be setting my expectations a little high :/ I shall adjust this.. thanks for the info!

I would be engaging him in tug and the minute he puts a little pressure on the tug let him win it, say 'yay good boy' or what ever, don't expect him to release it or offer a behavior yet, you just want him to think he is strong and love to tug.

You need to relax and just have some puppy fun until he's into you and the game.

Dobermanns are not easy.....lol. Wish you lived closer so I could help.

[minxy]

If he's not really understanding what the clicker means, then I'd keep practising clicks and treats until he starts to realise that click = a treat is coming. I know you said he doesn't seem that food motivated, but maybe you just haven't found something that he considers to be high value? What I've found really popular is those diced bacon pieces. You could always try warming treats as well, or sprinkling a bit of garlic powder on them to make the food more appealing. Or as someone else suggested, making his dinner the reward for training. If you're training your pup on a full stomach, he's probably not going to be that keen on training.

[Fourjays]

What food rewards have you tried with him?

What is the timing of your training sessions - are you training him right before he is due a meal to ensure he is hungry?

From your explanation of his behavior too, it sounds like he thinks everything else in the world is way more interesting than you are. So, my first thing I would be working on, is bonding with him and working on letting him know that good things come from you and his access to these good things are because you allow him. Have you got him confined to areas of the house or has he got free run? I always confine my pups to certain areas and they quickly learn that I provide access to the big wide world for them to explore. My current pup was very similar to your pup - not particularly food focussed, very interested in the rest of the world and especially other dogs. I just slowed down with him and worked on my relationship with him by playing games and lots of physical interaction with him, walks around the block, trips in the car etc. He was only allowed in one part of our house for a number of months and then slowly allowed access to the rest of the house. Crated when I had to go out - and then I would do some playing and interacting with him after I would let him out, demanding his attention was on me. At almost 12 months old I can happily say he now loves training treats, is keen on training sessions and mostly can focus on me for a few minutes at a time So don't despair, give him time and enjoy your puppy and work on building a positive relationship with him - it will come in time.

[Erny]

If you're not having any luck training the puppy and you want to do clicker training, contact a positive trainer to help you, you may not actually be doing it correctly.

Even trainers who aren't technically labelled "positive trainers" often know and use clickers to assist in training .

[Kelpie-i]

If you're not having any luck training the puppy and you want to do clicker training, contact a positive trainer to help you, you may not actually be doing it correctly.

Even trainers who aren't technically labelled "positive trainers" often know and use clickers to assist in training .

Yep agree Erny

[Kelpie-i]

I say enjoy your pup! You've go the best of 13 odd years to teach her all those wonderful things so why rush!

Instead, allow her to offer you behaviours that you then click/treat, rather than you expecting something specific which she may not be in the frame of mind...and old enough...to achieve just yet. This will make the game much more fun for her.

Good luck!

[Staff'n'Toller]

If you are really frustrated take a 2 day break, no training and just enjoy your puppy.

Socialisation is super important at this stage, check out Dunbars books Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy, he has some good guidelines on sociaslisation.

Another great thing is to teach Zen at this age, nice gentle massage under the collar or around the shoulders or neck area until you see some calming signals (yawning, lip smacking, laying down). Don't force the issue but start with very short sessions and work up so you can start massaging other areas (legs, paws, head, ears, tail etc.) you will need this for general examination of paws, mouth and ears and it's a great bonding activity.

Try training some tricks, break down the behaviour on paper and test yourself out. Then there is no pressure, your puppy will learn to learn and you are building value for the clicker.

[poodlefan]

Basic question. Are you rewarding after using the clicker to mark the desired behaviour?

How's your timing? Are you clicking to mark the pups attempts or offers of parts of the desired behaviour. Initially you may not get precisely what you're asking for so marking attempts helps to encourage offering more.

Do you have a 'focus' cue and can you work on marking and rewarding that? Sometimes you have to work on focus before other behaviours are built in. Even the pup looking at your face can be rewarded.

At this age, building a relationship of trust and confidence in you and socialising the pants off your pup are the priorities. Frustration is a very damaging emotion - dogs pick up on it and it can be a real barrier to effective training. If you're feeling frustrated, end the session on a positive note and just play with him. Play builds a relationship too.

Edited January 6, 2011 by poodlefan

[Ons]

I read the first post and thought maybe my 10 week old pup is behind the 8 ball

but then read the other posts and I think I'm doing everything right

I'm making everything a game for Latte, she is settling in, getting to learn the ropes here and the other dogs. She is also learning toilet training, how to sit, fetch, her name and how to come. Now I will begin to teach her how to walk on the lead and down. Although she can't be shown because she is a coolie she was lucky enough to be asked to come to show classes so she can do some socialisation with other dogs and had her first class tonight. That to me is alot for a little pup to digest. I want at this stage learning to be fun and not a chore.

take you time, teach little at a time frequently with lots of rewards

[sas]

If you're not having any luck training the puppy and you want to do clicker training, contact a positive trainer to help you, you may not actually be doing it correctly.

Even trainers who aren't technically labelled "positive trainers" often know and use clickers to assist in training .

Well that's a given.

[dandybrush]

what i would do is stop feeding dinner, and only reward when the pup is looking at me, have his dinner biscuits handy and during the day do short 10 sec sessions and reward with his dinner biscuits, he will soon learn that to look at you is really worth it

like everyone else has said though he is only a baby, i prob wouldnt have even started my clicker training that young, i started that when my boy was 3-4 months old just play with pup and enjoy the baby stage, its over way to quick IMO

Edited January 6, 2011 by dandybrush

[kyliegirl]

thanks for the help everyone. I have been spending alot of time with him playing and giving attention and have began taking him for a walk up and down the road behind us but I dont want to walk him too far as hes so young and I am not sure how much he really needs yet. At the moment its maybe a 5 min walk where its mostly broken with stops and rewards for walking on a loose lead or walking the other direction when the puppy pulls.

as for food rewards I have tried roast chicken, yoghurt, cheese, kibble, tuna, peanut butter, raw chicken, raw mince and scottys roll. I have been training just before dinner and also an hr after but both at the moment yeild the same results. I think I will try to bond with him more and get his attention on me more.