Toddler's Cheek Ripped Off By Family Pet

[Cody]

I hate to think what the parents were doing and thinking.

[Bullbreedlover]

I find these replies very interesting.

My dogs are the lowest in the order of pack members in my family.

A dog I bred (Bullmastiff), who is now 5 years old has been brought up with his family(and he is a big dog) and the children have participated in feeding him right from when they picked him up at 8 weeks old.

The two children have taken food away from this dog and successfully placed it back in front of him while he was told to sit and wait. The two children have always been the higher in the pecking order.

I ask you.....Is that wrong???

The dam of this dog whom I still have with me has been part of our grand daughters life. Our grand daughter could take a ball or food from her mouth.

.....Is that wrong???

Where I board my dogs, one of the children who helps with feeding the dogs can safely(and I mean safely) place my dogs food bowls down without fear.

Is that wrong???

Am I doing or saing something wrong when bringing up my dogs or instructing my puppy people in the pecking order of their family pet.

My dogs can have their food taken away from them by my husband and myself at any stage. They get fed separately from each other as they always have been.

People bring dogs up in different ways.

My Bullmastiffs are food orientated NOT food aggressive.

Now is someone going to tell me I am doing it all wrong??

I think "participated" would be the key factor. Did any of your children feed your dogs by themselves with you not present?

I think as long as the "leader of the pack" is present supervising the process of children feeding dog... dog feels secure. Maybe it is different when the "Leader" goes out of sight or is not present with the child as appears to have happened in the Toddler's situation?

Of course the Pack leader was always present as in every situation I have outlined.

Including the boarding kennel owner. (My dogs respect her as well)

It is one of those requirements explained earlier.

Good old common sense!

[abed]

Resource guarding IMHO is genetic with different levels from almost none to serious aggresssion. It's not hard to raise a dog safely around food that has a low level of resource guarding and think you have done a wonderful job in the leadership stakes, but raising a dog that is a genetic resoruce guarder who will react in aggression is a different story as the feeding regimes that work on a low level dog does not mean it will work on all. People tend to pat themselves on the back with conditioning a behaviour that the dog doesn't genetically have

[Crisovar]

The only thing that is an absolute here is that the kid should not have been allowed near the dog when it was eating.

It is such a simple rule and was one that is seems has been forgotten in the mists of time along with common sense.

LEAVE THE DOG ALONE WHEN IT IS EATING OR ASLEEP.

I don't care who you are, or how gifted and talented your kid is with dogs, simple rules save lives.

[brightonrock]

The government should create some guideline advertisements to be shown in prime time TV to teach parents, children and everyone really how to interact with dogs properly.

It might save some children from lifetime fears and disfigurement, save the lives of the dogs and help put dogs in their place in society rather than allow the ignorance to grow.

[asal]

That poor child Idiot parents should never have allowed the child near the dog when he was being fed.

While I can take food from any of my dogs if i need to, I don't assume they will allow anyone else to. I also crate all my dogs at feeding times and if friend's children are here they are not allowed near the dog crates at all until the food is eaten and bowls have all been removed. None of my current dogs are food aggressive but I am not willing to take a chance that a scuffle might break out, there is always a first time for everything.

For what its worth its not just about training. I have owned a food aggressive dog in the past. And while i was able to get food from him if I had to (tho I would never just go up and take it, I would speak to him firmly first), if anyone else even went near him he would snarl. He was raised the same as all my other dogs, and had never been mistreated. Some dogs are just resource guarders, and the only ppl who think that training a dog to have good manners will resolve this issue, are the ones who have clearly never owned a food aggressive dog.

and its certainly crops up in all breeds. dont think ive ever heard anyone warning about golden retrivers.

our neighbours big bear was everyones best friend.

but go near anything he was eating and he would have you. learned that when my neighbour phoned me and asked me to please come down and put a 'goats head' in her wheelie bin for her. said her dog had brought it home from goodness knows where.

and the sight of it was grossing her out so bad she couldnt bring herself to leave the house.

she didnt tell me i would be attacked by her confounded dog when i picked it up.

not at all impressed. luckily the tap and hose were near me and i flipped it on and half drowned him until he backed off enough for me to chuck it in the bin and he switched off the attack once it was out of sight.

gee was i agry with her for not warning me

Edited January 4, 2011 by asal

[Greytmate]

Resource guarding IMHO is genetic with different levels from almost none to serious aggresssion. It's not hard to raise a dog safely around food that has a low level of resource guarding and think you have done a wonderful job in the leadership stakes, but raising a dog that is a genetic resoruce guarder who will react in aggression is a different story as the feeding regimes that work on a low level dog does not mean it will work on all. People tend to pat themselves on the back with conditioning a behaviour that the dog doesn't genetically have

That is so true.

But most people need more education on this.

We constantly see people on DOL take credit for their dog's good temperament and feel guilty about their dog's faults, or the minor mistakes they make with the dog, without realising that genetics has shaped their dog's personality more than anything else.

Given that this forum is about breeding excellent purebreed dogs, it is so important that people understand you only get the dog with the nature you want by very carefully breeding for it. This lab that bit the child's face may not have been well-bred at all.

[abed]

Resource guarding IMHO is genetic with different levels from almost none to serious aggresssion. It's not hard to raise a dog safely around food that has a low level of resource guarding and think you have done a wonderful job in the leadership stakes, but raising a dog that is a genetic resoruce guarder who will react in aggression is a different story as the feeding regimes that work on a low level dog does not mean it will work on all. People tend to pat themselves on the back with conditioning a behaviour that the dog doesn't genetically have

That is so true.

But most people need more education on this.

We constantly see people on DOL take credit for their dog's good temperament and feel guilty about their dog's faults, or the minor mistakes they make with the dog, without realising that genetics has shaped their dog's personality more than anything else.

Given that this forum is about breeding excellent purebreed dogs, it is so important that people understand you only get the dog with the nature you want by very carefully breeding for it. This lab that bit the child's face may not have been well-bred at all.

It's interesting to note that on several occassions owners of a particular bloodline of dog with some aggressions cases I have seen are beside themselves with behaviours that have surfaced where they have been blamed or blame themselves for inadequate training and raising not knowing where they supposedly went wrong. Some breeders are not innocent of denying genetic faults in temperament either on the basis that they have never heard or seen the behaviour in their lines before ;) , except for another litter mate that I worked with from a different home and upbringing with the same behaviour Back slapping in a job well done or beating people up over behaviours good and bad are unfair judgments where genetics plays the vital role IMHO.

[WoofnHoof]

Not only that there are some behaviours that can't be bred out for whatever reason, ie they might be a part of the original purpose of the breed (eg guarding, retreival etc) or they might be linked in a less obvious way but in a can't-have-one-without-the-other kind of way. Many genetic traits are linked because they might be on the same area of the chromosome as the traits people are breeding for so they will inevitably 'tag along' when certain traits are selected for.

There is also a big difference between supervised controlled feeding of the dogs by children and a child 'playing' with the dog while it is eating.

[tobie]

I think that it's really sad that so many people instantly judge what has happened to this poor child, family and dog. For all everyone knows the parents could be responsible with the dog and child but a tragic accident simply occured. Anyone with children knows how easily children can get into trouble very easily before you have a chance to stop it. We all do our best to prevent and protect our kids but accidents do occur and sadly some accidents have really serious consequences. I can't imagine how that family must be feeling. And so many people get on here saying what awful parents and pet owners they must be. You should not judge without knowing all the facts.

The problem with this world is that so many people think they know everything and are better than everyone else and awful things would never happen to them. I think this is why certain breeds get bad reputations because so many people judge and have no idea.

My own dogs are well trained and I always supervise my children with my pets so god forbid anything like this would ever happen to my family and I pray that it never does.

All I can say is I wish this family the best and I hope the child is ok.

[asal]

what many of you seem to forget is how many times have you seen families where the parents were lovely people and their kid or kids were ferals?

same can happen with dogs too

[cybergenesis]

I think that it's really sad that so many people instantly judge what has happened to this poor child, family and dog. For all everyone knows the parents could be responsible with the dog and child but a tragic accident simply occured. Anyone with children knows how easily children can get into trouble very easily before you have a chance to stop it. We all do our best to prevent and protect our kids but accidents do occur and sadly some accidents have really serious consequences. I can't imagine how that family must be feeling. And so many people get on here saying what awful parents and pet owners they must be. You should not judge without knowing all the facts.

The problem with this world is that so many people think they know everything and are better than everyone else and awful things would never happen to them. I think this is why certain breeds get bad reputations because so many people judge and have no idea.

My own dogs are well trained and I always supervise my children with my pets so god forbid anything like this would ever happen to my family and I pray that it never does.

All I can say is I wish this family the best and I hope the child is ok.

Oh come off it... Nobody is saying they absolutely know what happened, but it is pretty likely the parents are responsible.

I own a Labradore, a large male one. It is a food guarder, and a very severe one. I am the only person that can go near its food when it is eating. It will fully growl and bare all its teeth, if any other person goes anywhere near its food- including other dogs.

I have various children over my house all the time. It is my responsibility to protect the children from my dog. I will allow older children- that I am confident will behave- around the dog, but keep it absolutely away from younger children.

I have never, ever had any incident with my dog, because I am extremely vigilant and careful. I am actually in control of the situation. It would not be an "accident' if my dog attacked a child.

I have no doubt that the parents in this case had some serious misconception about their dog, they "trusted it like a human" etc. Dogs can be very trustable, but you have to understand their nature, and most dogs are capable of attacking in the right circumstance.

I have seen dogs nearly attack children various times (By quick reflexes I have physically stopped a dog from biting a child), this was all at the house of people who are not responsible with dogs. Going near a dog when it is eating or sleeping, or a child deliberately staring at a dog at face level, are the main triggers of dog attacks against children. However my Labradore has no problem with people going near it when its asleep for some reason. Its only when its eating. It is not aggressive under any other cirsumstances.

When my dog eats, no child can get bitten by it, because I put it out the back, I know where the children are in my house, and I lock the back door and without the key it is not possible for a young 4 year old child to get access to the dog.

No child has ever had an "accident" around me, I am like a hawk when it comes to children's safety, and proudly so.

It is almost certain that this child getting bitten by the dog was fully preventable, and now the bloody poor dog will likely get put down. However, as much as I love dogs, children are more important than dogs.

Edited January 5, 2011 by cybergenesis

[Souff]

what many of you seem to forget is how many times have you seen families where the parents were lovely people and their kid or kids were ferals?

same can happen with dogs too

Was just talking to a friend last night. Due to an over protective female owner who would not allow the men of the house to correct a developing pup when it was out of line, and gave it a regime of weak discipline, mixed messages over boundaries, etc, the world now has another "problem dog". ;)

Of course later this "bad dog" had to be re-homed as it "could not be trusted near men". Friend has taken the dog in and the rehab process has started and the dog was going really well, building a good rapport with 2 sensible males who understand animals. Unfortunately, a male visitor arrived the other day and, unannounced, went into the dog's area and for his trouble got bitten. Seems some "Keep Out" signs might now be needed.

Yet, this was a pup that was bred from the calmest and gentlest of lines, and the litter mates and parents and other rellies are known for their beautiful temperament.

Asal, what I guess I am saying is that when 'it happens', "it" is often the fault of humans who neglect to give a pup the discipline it would have got in a pack.

Certainly was in this case and good advice that was given early was ignored.

Souff

[Souff]

Double post removed.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Souff

[Greytmate]

I think that it's really sad that so many people instantly judge what has happened to this poor child, family and dog. For all everyone knows the parents could be responsible with the dog and child but a tragic accident simply occured. Anyone with children knows how easily children can get into trouble very easily before you have a chance to stop it. We all do our best to prevent and protect our kids but accidents do occur and sadly some accidents have really serious consequences. I can't imagine how that family must be feeling. And so many people get on here saying what awful parents and pet owners they must be. You should not judge without knowing all the facts.

The problem with this world is that so many people think they know everything and are better than everyone else and awful things would never happen to them. I think this is why certain breeds get bad reputations because so many people judge and have no idea.

My own dogs are well trained and I always supervise my children with my pets so god forbid anything like this would ever happen to my family and I pray that it never does.

All I can say is I wish this family the best and I hope the child is ok.

I disagree. This wasn't an accident, it was a chain of events where things went terribly wrong. To say it was a random accident is to imply that dogs and small children can never be safe together.

It is normal for a dog to show some degree of resource guarding. But there are many things that can be done to minimise the chances of this causing harm. For a dog to do that much damage, either the dog was not right in the head from the start, or the family had allowed an escalating situation to develop where the dog felt so threatened that it had to show extreme aggression.

[cybergenesis]

Firstly the child in the article is 4 years old - too young to be able to enforce rules/commands or be seen as higher in the pecking order than the dog. The article also says that the child was playing with the dog while the dog ate, not that the child was helping to feed the dog. I don't know many dogs (especially Labradors!) that are interested in playing when presented with their dinner! Most likely the dog was only ever tolerating being annoyed by the child while it ate, and did not tolerate it this time.

Have to disagree there.

In your opinion when is a child old enough to be included in the pecking order? When it is too late?

Honestly mate, I read your comments yesterday, and I have to say I was thinking what planet is this person on? Are you truly advocating 4 year old children being near feeding dogs? You say in your circumstances, the children were raised with the dog since puppy age, well that is one circumstances, but I would never in hell allow a 4 year old child near my Labradore when it is eating. My dog was not raised with young toddlers pulling its ears and taking away its food when eating, and I do not believe my dog could ever be trained to be entirely safe around children when eating. Sometimes it still growls at me, but only a very soft growl.

Edited January 5, 2011 by cybergenesis

[cybergenesis]

what many of you seem to forget is how many times have you seen families where the parents were lovely people and their kid or kids were ferals?

same can happen with dogs too

What an awful comment, I would never describe any child as a "feral".

Edited January 5, 2011 by cybergenesis

[sandgrubber]

I think feral is a great label for wild, loud, undisciplined, kids who show no respect for others and take responsibility for nothing. I've met a few of 'em.

That aside, I'd like to complement everybody for not taking the denial route. I appreciate the absence of 'who says it's a Labrador, show me a photo, it may be an ill-bred one, my dogs will allow you to take a bone out of their mouths, . . . blah blah blah . . . yes, some Labs are resource guarders. Many are not. One more thing for breeders to keep in mind and to try and purge from their bloodlines.

what many of you seem to forget is how many times have you seen families where the parents were lovely people and their kid or kids were ferals?

same can happen with dogs too

What an awful comment, I would never describe any child as a "feral".

Edited January 5, 2011 by sandgrubber

[asal]

what many of you seem to forget is how many times have you seen families where the parents were lovely people and their kid or kids were ferals?

same can happen with dogs too

What an awful comment, I would never describe any child as a "feral".

considering my aunts brother is dead because a group decided to kick him to death when he went to his car to get home... what else would you describe the likes of such visually members anyway of the homo sapien species?

my neighbour is only alive because. a) his dad a copper had warned himif he was ever attacked and knocked down stay in a ball and dont let go of your knees if you can. he did so that B) by the time his mates had ran to the nearest cop shop and help arrived he was still alive, he did survive although he was in icu for 3 days.

my own brother had to wait 3 days before he knew if he would lose his eyes after a total stranger decided to king hit him at a race meeting. all he knew was a tap on the shoulder, turned. and BANG.

never seen the sicko in his life before..

so what would you call these types???????????

Edited January 5, 2011 by asal

[asal]

incidently my resource guarder border collie came from a very famous kennel.. and not one other i saw from there had his behaviour.. so i fail to see how the breeder is the bad guy at all?