EmiLeigh Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hey, We have recently got a puppy who seems to have a small umbilical hernia. We were wondering if anyone could give us some advice about what to do about this? We were wanting to show her, but does this mean that she is ineligable to show? Would surgery to correct this also not be permitted in a show? I also read that this form of hernia is not genetic, what would you suggest in regards to breeding from this dog? Thanks, any advice or insight is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 If it is small no need for surgery, have you spoken to your vet? it wont make her unshowable :D As for genetic and breeding it depends what you hear and read and what others tell you. I have read it is genetic, i have also heard not to breed from them !!! having said that i have bred puppies with small hernias and i have also bred bitches and dogs with them also , no problems ! I myself belive it it more the bitches i have tugging on their unbilical cord that causes it most times, and yes i have caught the cows doing it !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiLeigh Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 If it is small no need for surgery, have you spoken to your vet? it wont make her unshowable :DAs for genetic and breeding it depends what you hear and read and what others tell you. I have read it is genetic, i have also heard not to breed from them !!! having said that i have bred puppies with small hernias and i have also bred bitches and dogs with them also , no problems ! I myself belive it it more the bitches i have tugging on their unbilical cord that causes it most times, and yes i have caught the cows doing it !!!!! Thanks. The vet didn't even notice it (or check for that matter). I noticed it when we first got the pup, but didn't think anything of it and forgot about it, until a friend who used to breed dogs, pointed it out. This friend was told by her vet that it was due to the bitch pulling the umbilical cord and therefore she used to cut the cords herself. I have contacted my breeder and am still waiting her opinion, but thought I would ask around if it is worth removing or classed as a fault in the show ring etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiLeigh Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 If it is small no need for surgery, have you spoken to your vet? it wont make her unshowable :DAs for genetic and breeding it depends what you hear and read and what others tell you. I have read it is genetic, i have also heard not to breed from them !!! having said that i have bred puppies with small hernias and i have also bred bitches and dogs with them also , no problems ! I myself belive it it more the bitches i have tugging on their unbilical cord that causes it most times, and yes i have caught the cows doing it !!!!! actually Nobul, I see that you used to exhibit dogues. Our pup is a dogue, we are curious about if it was common for pups to start out without an underbite and then develop it later, because our lil girl hasn't one at the moment. haha seems to be all these things popping up for us that our chances of beginning showing are slim. Which is fine, would have been fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURNSTEIN Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 No problems about showing your puppy - but would just get the vet to check when next there. If a bitch might fixing before breeding depending on the size of the umbilical hernia, but that is up to your vet to make decision. Best of luck showing your puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 not sure about the bite in your breed but our whippet puppy had a nice scissor bite when we picked her up and then a few weeks later she had a under bite for about 3 months and then it settled down and went back to normal by the time she was 6 months. Depending on the breed I guess and i am not sure about your breed but Whippets are known to have a slow growing bottom jaw. Hope this helps some. Oh and by the way good luck with your new baby. All dogs still have faults even the Best in Show winners Its just a matter of working out how to make your dog look its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Emileigh I still do show Dogues well my girl anyway when i can be bothered to run from group 2 to group 6 lol. One of the most important virtues on a Dogue is the undershot bite !!!! but having said that many many judges do not have any idea. I have 2 dogues , one is probably the best example you will ever see, not only his mouth but head shape. the standard reads for jaws" the lower jaw curves unpwards, the chin is well marked" and the mouth states "Undershot (the undershot condition being a characteristic of the breed). " but for some unknown reson judges continually ignore these important facts !!!! If you wish to see him look up moloscyg kiss the girls on my website. But his dog is very very far and few and when judges judge him he looks alien to them and they think it is wrong I have seen overshot dogs even been rewarded !!! Your puppy should be undershot , from the picture in your avatar , i feel she has no curve to her lower jaw and is long in nose , but very cute all the same For showing many things are considered, structure is also extremely important, temperament etc. Did you buy her to show? I dont know what shows i will be entered in for the next few months as usually it is too hot to show , but if you like i can let u know and you can come down with her and see what the show scene is all about Cheers julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiLeigh Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Hi Emileigh I still do show Dogues well my girl anyway when i can be bothered to run from group 2 to group 6 lol. One of the most important virtues on a Dogue is the undershot bite !!!! but having said that many many judges do not have any idea. I have 2 dogues , one is probably the best example you will ever see, not only his mouth but head shape. the standard reads for jaws" the lower jaw curves unpwards, the chin is well marked" and the mouth states "Undershot (the undershot condition being a characteristic of the breed). " but for some unknown reson judges continually ignore these important facts !!!! If you wish to see him look up moloscyg kiss the girls on my website. But his dog is very very far and few and when judges judge him he looks alien to them and they think it is wrong I have seen overshot dogs even been rewarded !!! Your puppy should be undershot , from the picture in your avatar , i feel she has no curve to her lower jaw and is long in nose , but very cute all the same For showing many things are considered, structure is also extremely important, temperament etc. Did you buy her to show? I dont know what shows i will be entered in for the next few months as usually it is too hot to show , but if you like i can let u know and you can come down with her and see what the show scene is all about Cheers julie Thank you Julie for your advice. Yes we did buy her to try to show, but as we have never done it before, nor have we ever owned a purebred dogue, and we understand that not all dogs are show quality. we love her all the same. /i was curious about is what to do if she obviously not show quality, we paid for her as the pick of the litter, but is it common to sell a dog for a greater price if it is not showing obious traits such as an undershot bite and has a hernia. I would love to come along and see the next show you attend. Thanks Emily Edited January 6, 2011 by EmiLeigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My main concern is what to do if she obviously not show quality, we paid for her as the pick of the litter, but it doesn't seem right to me that they can sell a dog for a greater price if it is not showing obious traits such as an undershot bite and has a hernia. Thanks Emily These questions should be addressed to the breeder firstly not on a forum ,they should be given the opportunity to discuss any issues & concerns you have regarding your pup,there lines & her future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 EmiLeigh I agree you should discuss this with your breeder. Your breeder would know their lines best and may know what to expect from their pups and when. In addition to this, there is never ever a guarantee that your pup will turn out to be show quality - pups at such a young age show potential only. If the breeder sold you a pup telling you it would be a top winner I find that wrong... anything can happen to make it not show quality, and those are things that you can't always predict, such as bite, size etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hernia's are not a non showable fault. I have seen heaps in the ring and does look ordinary on a non coated breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiLeigh Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 EmiLeigh I agree you should discuss this with your breeder. Your breeder would know their lines best and may know what to expect from their pups and when. In addition to this, there is never ever a guarantee that your pup will turn out to be show quality - pups at such a young age show potential only. If the breeder sold you a pup telling you it would be a top winner I find that wrong... anything can happen to make it not show quality, and those are things that you can't always predict, such as bite, size etc. I understand that. I am waiting a response from my breeder and thought I would just ask since a dogue exhibitor had replied on this thread. My main concern and the topic of this thread was the hernia. I see no need to ask the breeder about that since many people on here can give me different advice and their own personal experience. I also don't really want to sound like a worry wart to my breeder, better to get some of my concerns alleviated first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I understand that. I am waiting a response from my breeder and thought I would just ask since a dogue exhibitor had replied on this thread. My main concern and the topic of this thread was the hernia. I see no need to ask the breeder about that since many people on here can give me different advice and their own personal experience. I also don't really want to sound like a worry wart to my breeder, better to get some of my concerns alleviated first If your breeder is good they would sooner be contacted about your concerns .a good breeder should always be there to listen & explain There is nothing worse as a breeder to find out your the last to be asked about an issue/concern regarding a pup you have breed. Does your breeder show there dogs?? If so you could meet them at a show & they can assit you in the show world & how to train your pup, a good breeder & relationship is worth every cent but your concerns are important to you & should be to them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Showdog I for one am definately in to let the breeder know first , I am a breeder myself and am on call 24/7 for those people who buy my dogs for the life of my dogs, but i will let you in on a secret in this country (and not only this country) and that is out of all the registered Dogue breeders i wouldnt trust 95% of them !!!!!!! Unfortunately though these so called great breeders are also great talkers !!!!! i have seen in the past consistantly blatant lies told to puppy buyers and when those buyers have contacted them they have done the walk and talk and those buyers dont know which way to turn and lose interest and dissapear. I am so totally annoyed by it all it does nothing for the breed and nothing for the poor owners that have paid the big bucks. I have seen dogs LIMPING and totalyy unsound in the ring, very poor examples of the breed you name it !!! told there is nothing wrong with the dog they should look like that, that isnt a problem, oh yes breed from it you can use my stud dog and then you to can sell all on Main register for a high price etc etc I have pride in this breed although it technically is not my breed i mainly have , but i have a great passion for it and it deserves a lot lot more than it gets. I am more than willing to help those new owners of Dogues to start showing, no matter who bred it ! as my state is very small and not many breeders here , most are bought from interstate and flown across I show every now and then, mainly in the winter months (it is me that hates showing in the heat lol) but only to happy to help. I hope for Emileighs sake that her puppy was bought from a good and decent breeder and not one of the 95% ,but as having paid a greater price for pick of litter bitch that has an umbilical hernia she was not notified about and not an undershot bite has me a tad worried and surely that would even ring alarm bells for you ? Emileigh dont ever be scared to ask anything about everything Cheers Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiLeigh Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Thanks everyone I was hoping to just get more advice, since as mentioned they could always just lie to me anyway. so I thought it good to ask around. but it seems that hernia is not anything to worry about which is good. As long as it is not affecting her health. I am not trying to bad mouth my breeder - our pup is generaly a lovely healthy puppy and we are very happy with her, I don't mean to suggest that they have done wrong by me, just trying to gather as much information as I can about the breed and other peoples experience with hernia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flealea Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Is this also the puppy with the roached back? I only ask because it does concern me that a reputable and experienced breeder of Dogues would sell a puppy to a show home that had not gone the most slightly undershot, had a hernia and roached back, yet said it was pick puppy. So this would leave me with a little bit of concern regarding the experience and knowledge of the breeder, hence the need to ask further advice of others. For the breeder to say that hernias are not genetic, actually they are. But it can be hard to determine if the hernia the puppy has is due to umbilcal trauma at birth or whether it is genetic. Only the breeder would know, and some don't admit if it's genetic. If the puppy is the one on your avatar, she is cute, but is lacking in strong breed type which should be evident at a young age. Cheers Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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