Panting And Seemingly Distressed?

[New Age Outlaw]

Too true Anissa...it makes it so hard when they are sick and can't tell us what the problem is...we feel so helpless.

It was definitely the methodone that gave Cleo the diarreha, as she is still on the ABs (and will be for a while yet) but her poops have returned to normal. She does get yoghurt...all my dogs get yoghurt every day for their digestion and their skin (plus they really love it!). I think I will just make sure they don't give her any more opiates as she seems to be sensitive to them...I have used them on other dogs in the past with no problems but they obviously don't agree with her. She also had problems with one particular antibiotic about a year ago (can't remember which one but it is on her vet records not to use it again) so she must just be one of those dogs who has sensitivities to a few different things. The important thing is she is back to her usual self, so we get to keep her around for a while longer!

[Sheridan]

Tramal and Methadone both are opiate based "painkillers" that sedate slighly as well (like morphium). A lot of dogs seem to have trouble with those and feel quite drowsy for a while afterwards. It also takes 36 hours and more to wear off.

What the emergency vet told me was that Grumpy might feel a little drowsy on Tramal. There wasn't any mention at the time that it would turn him into an insane spaceman. It also took a lot longer to wear off than 36 hours. It took nearly a week. If a lot of dogs have trouble on them, why are they given?

[New Age Outlaw]

What the emergency vet told me was that Grumpy might feel a little drowsy on Tramal. There wasn't any mention at the time that it would turn him into an insane spaceman. It also took a lot longer to wear off than 36 hours. It took nearly a week. If a lot of dogs have trouble on them, why are they given?

Grumpy's reaction sounds like it was quite extreme. I guess it's the same as with people. I don't think you could say that the adverse reactions are exactly common (especially ones as extreme as Grumpy's), but they are not unknown, and you can't predict if your dog (or a person), is sensitive to a particular drug until they take it and have a reaction. It just pays to monitor them very closely when they have had treatment, especially if it is something they haven't had before. Far more dogs (and people) don't have a bad reaction and get immense relief from these drugs. If you stopped using every drug that someone has had a reaction to, there wouldn't be too many left.

[Anissa Goemann]

I surly am not a big fan of using opiates in dogs as ther (like kids as well) seem to have such adverse reactions very often. They work pretty well for humans which is probably why. But dogs seem to have a lot of trouble/stress with the way opiates mess up their brain. Spaceman ist a very good word for it. =) It really does send them off to space and they struggle so badly with that. My dog was wimpering a LOT and seem to drift in and out all the time. He would react to me but soon after drifted off again. HORRIBLE!

What I find most astonishing from a homoeopathic point of view (I don't know if you guys know anything about it*): through provings of opium as a hom. remedy there was never any sign for pain being induced by it which in consequence would mean that it is not actually able to "cure" it either. So what I often wonder is if it actually does reduce pain or only makes the dogs unable to really move/react or care...

*the way you get all the symptom associated with any given remedy is by proving it. Means you take it daily in a certain dosis (usually C30) and note very accurately all symptoms you develop. This is done by many people and all the symptoms then are collected. All symptoms that appeared for nearly everyone is a Grade 1 and it goes down to grade 4 if it only appeard for very few people. Then you can use this particular remedy for all the symptoms it is able to induce in a healthy person.

Sorry if I bore you with that but it's something I have been pondering for quite some time. =)

Cheers, Anissa

[Sheridan]

Grumpy's reaction sounds like it was quite extreme. I guess it's the same as with people. I don't think you could say that the adverse reactions are exactly common (especially ones as extreme as Grumpy's), but they are not unknown, and you can't predict if your dog (or a person), is sensitive to a particular drug until they take it and have a reaction. It just pays to monitor them very closely when they have had treatment, especially if it is something they haven't had before. Far more dogs (and people) don't have a bad reaction and get immense relief from these drugs. If you stopped using every drug that someone has had a reaction to, there wouldn't be too many left.

Admittedly, Grumpy does do everything to an extreme. That said, all it took was the 15-20 minutes to drive home for him to turn into a spaceman. I actually rang the vet and asked if the drug was meant to turn him insane and they were really vague about it. I can't remember exactly what they said but it wasn't rampaging lunatic dog.

I surly am not a big fan of using opiates in dogs as ther (like kids as well) seem to have such adverse reactions very often. They work pretty well for humans which is probably why. But dogs seem to have a lot of trouble/stress with the way opiates mess up their brain. Spaceman ist a very good word for it. =) It really does send them off to space and they struggle so badly with that. My dog was wimpering a LOT and seem to drift in and out all the time. He would react to me but soon after drifted off again. HORRIBLE!

What I find most astonishing from a homoeopathic point of view (I don't know if you guys know anything about it*): through provings of opium as a hom. remedy there was never any sign for pain being induced by it which in consequence would mean that it is not actually able to "cure" it either. So what I often wonder is if it actually does reduce pain or only makes the dogs unable to really move/react or care...

*the way you get all the symptom associated with any given remedy is by proving it. Means you take it daily in a certain dosis (usually C30) and note very accurately all symptoms you develop. This is done by many people and all the symptoms then are collected. All symptoms that appeared for nearly everyone is a Grade 1 and it goes down to grade 4 if it only appeard for very few people. Then you can use this particular remedy for all the symptoms it is able to induce in a healthy person.

Sorry if I bore you with that but it's something I have been pondering for quite some time. =)

Cheers, Anissa

That's really interesting, Anissa. Tramal was described to me as a mild painkiller and I thought methadone was a painkiller, too, rather than a sedative.

[Anissa Goemann]

I have to check again at home but I think I remember that according to my handbook it's not considered "mild" anymore.

They get used more often because these type of painkillers don't have such adverse effects on the stomach (like (Rimadyl). But I would see it certainly as a lot "stronger".

Particularly with anything "collie like" I would stay clear of it unless I know for sure it doesn't have the MDR1 defect.

It certainly does change your point of view quite a bit when you look at it from a homoeopathic view. I at least find it quite fascinating.

[OSoSwift]

Tramal can case issues in humans where they do go a bit off, but not like poor Grumpy, it is a drug of dependence in people as well, very easy to become addicted to. I guess with dogs they just stop it and if the dog is addicted they go through cold turkey???? Not sure but we have Tramal for our old dog when required , he stays sane but does get dopey.