A Few Questions

[Vader's mum]

Firstly the food: Over the past few weeks kenobi has been off his food he use to woof it down like it was going out of fashion it would usually take him a min or so to eat 2 chicken wings now he plays with it and leaves it alone and its a struggle to get him to eat. Same with his BARF patties used to love them now nothing. Nothing has changed what I give him, he has also started burying his food something he never used to do which is painful as there is another dog who steals his food (I dont want my boy to starve). Is this common or is it something more serious?

I also want to know how much I meant to be giving him? He's 5 month old beagle I give him 2 chicken wings in the morning and night and some dry food during the day or 2 chicken wings or some BARF patties mixed with dry food it alternated breakfast and dinner. I keep getting he's two skinny but Im afraid to over feed him (well I was not at the moment as he's not eating). I personally dont think he looks that thin but I am fed up with the comments I thought I would ask if it should be more.

Now for the itching! This is driving me nuts god knows how my wee boy is feeling! He is constantly scratching if hes not asleep, doing his business or distracted (even if its for a few mins) he is scratching like a mad man! I took him to the vets and asked she found a flea on him so we treated for fleas and it was better for a few days then back at it like a mad man! he his nawing himself raw in places mostly his knee area. She told us to give him fish oil tablets which we have been doing and his skin is looking better (looked like dandruff) but hes still a mad man he has a few "scabs" but they are so tiny its not spearding its just around the top of the tail area. So I am at a loss and Im worried about him its distressing for me I cant think of what its like for him

Oh yeah we were feeding him sardines but god they didnt agree with him or my nose! and there is no wandering jew in the yard. I should also mention when we went up to my mums for chrissy he didnt scratch as much she doesnt have lawn so I was wondering if it was maybe connected to lawn?

[bigboy]

Firstly the food: Over the past few weeks kenobi has been off his food he use to woof it down like it was going out of fashion it would usually take him a min or so to eat 2 chicken wings now he plays with it and leaves it alone and its a struggle to get him to eat. Same with his BARF patties used to love them now nothing. Nothing has changed what I give him, he has also started burying his food something he never used to do which is painful as there is another dog who steals his food (I dont want my boy to starve). Is this common or is it something more serious?

I also want to know how much I meant to be giving him? He's 5 month old beagle I give him 2 chicken wings in the morning and night and some dry food during the day or 2 chicken wings or some BARF patties mixed with dry food it alternated breakfast and dinner. I keep getting he's two skinny but Im afraid to over feed him (well I was not at the moment as he's not eating). I personally dont think he looks that thin but I am fed up with the comments I thought I would ask if it should be more.

Now for the itching! This is driving me nuts god knows how my wee boy is feeling! He is constantly scratching if hes not asleep, doing his business or distracted (even if its for a few mins) he is scratching like a mad man! I took him to the vets and asked she found a flea on him so we treated for fleas and it was better for a few days then back at it like a mad man! he his nawing himself raw in places mostly his knee area. She told us to give him fish oil tablets which we have been doing and his skin is looking better (looked like dandruff) but hes still a mad man he has a few "scabs" but they are so tiny its not spearding its just around the top of the tail area. So I am at a loss and Im worried about him its distressing for me I cant think of what its like for him

Oh yeah we were feeding him sardines but god they didnt agree with him or my nose! and there is no wandering jew in the yard. I should also mention when we went up to my mums for chrissy he didnt scratch as much she doesnt have lawn so I was wondering if it was maybe connected to lawn?

hi vader's mum, you really need to contact Tam from beagle rescue she can give you the best advice ever ,she has been thru all of this many times.look up web beagle rescue of vic and email tam she will most definately be able to help.

i can pass on my knowledge,lots of beagles have very sensitive skin ,and allergies,many grow out of this around 2yrs of age as our girl has done.I found i needed to give her a low dose antihistermine like polaramine 2mg.(info on this site re dosage is avail) during the summer months and wean off as the weather changes,there are lots of pollens around at this time so the tablets really help. Dont use any harsh shampoos or creams on his skin i used a natural tea tree lotion just on the spots she chews to stop it initially.keep him away from cut grass and stuff like that as much as possible.

maybe try a whole chicken frame and freeze it so your dog has to really chew it ,mine really love them and by freezing them they chew it much more.(perhaps all the itching scratching and effect of these allergies makes your pup just a tad off and not really interested in his food,i think once you get that under control he will resume his appetite.

[sas]

If a dog is experiencing allergies young it is actually known to get worse not better.

Perhaps you should go back to your Vet and if you're not making any headway ask for a referral to a Derm.

The area that you are experiencing does sound like Flea Allergy Dermatitis, so you'll probably want to make sure you flea bomb your house, make sure the treatment you are using on your dog is working and so forth.

Allergies are very much individual, what works for one dog won't neccessarily work for the next.

Hoping in your case it is a very straight forward case of a flea allergy and not a whole bunch of different allergens.

[tlc]

Poor Kenobi, it's hard to know what to do to help them when they are itchy. One of my girls used to get itchy not excessive a bit of scratching and biting bit no skin off or redness etc, the vet thought it was the grass but since I have had her on a dry (black hawk) diet with only bones (chicken, lamb and beef) the ithching has subsided and now she hardly itches at all. So I am thinking maybe it was the food, she was previously eating meat, veg, rice and a cheaper bicky (supercoat) The change seemed to occur once she went onto a premium dry food.

By the way I think it is about time we seen som enew pics of the lttle dude! Maybe you have posted some and I have missed them.

Did the vet recommend anything for relief apart from the fish oil? I'm sure Steve will have some good advice for you re the itch.

Oh just has a thought, our old dog had an allergy to fleas and even one flea drove him crazy and the base of his tail was the worst area. I know it sounds wierd dogs having an allergy to fleas of course they have the fleas bite the dog scratches but they can have an actual allergy to the flea. Our boy had to have a course of steroids to knock it on the head and we had to be extremely vigilant about keeping up with the flea treatment.

[tlc]

*reminder to self, read others post before I post myself What Sas said!!

[vesper12]

As a vet I can tell you that 1. chiken wings is not the best food for pups 2. Chiken meat is #1 wich can cause allergic reaction in dogs.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I'm no expert on beagles but they're known to be vacuum cleaners around food. I think you're feeding him too much...try cutting back and getting the chicken out of the diet altogether. Many dogs are highly allergic to chicken, fine with other poultry but terrible with chicken (my Ruby has severe food and contact allergies).

If the itching doesn't improve, consult a vet who knows about doing a proper elimination diet. What is needed is a complete removal of all but two foods, one protein source and one vegetable source ONLY for six weeks. No treats, no flavoured tablets, no supplements and only two foods. But in pups I don't know how safe this would be which is why you must consult a good vet who knows what they're talking about.

Best of luck - allergies can be difficult to narrow down. Ruby is allergic to chicken, beef, most grasses, yoghurt, eggs and many other foods sadly. But she does well on fish, turkey, okay on lamb surprisingly, and sweet potato.

[sas]

As a vet I can tell you that 1. chiken wings is not the best food for pups 2. Chiken meat is #1 wich can cause allergic reaction in dogs.

Is what you're saying relevant to this particular case? i.e. are you saying that the chicken is most likely causing an allergic reaction that is causing the dog to display symptoms that appear like flea allergy dermatitis?

[dasha]

Sas I think she is just pointing out that the food maybe contributing to his allergy.

Hope the cause can be found soon for Kenobi's benefit. Ichy dogs are terrible to deal with.

What brand of dry food is your pup on?

Sometimes a diet with too much protein can cause teh allergies. The flea the vet found could also just be a coincidental.

What was different when you had him at your parents place. Was he fed the same food and teh same routine snacks or did you cut something out for convenience.

[Vader's mum]

The new place were in has been flea bombed did it when the vet found the flea and have been very vigilant to the point where he is getting sick of me!

As for food I think rice is the only new thing hes been introduced to, he gets turkey and sometimes pork as well as chicken use to have lamb but after the last few times of vomiting it back up he hasn't had any more. He also eats the science dry food. I guess that might be the cause as he didnt have any up at mums.

The vet only recomended fish oil as she was certain that he had a flea allergy, I gave him some polaramine this morning after speaking to my mother in laws vet (no one answered at my vet) so will keep an eye on him today he was nuts this morning much more worse than before! Im off out the back yard to have a really good look to see if there is wandering jew Im sure there isnt but Im going to check again I would think if obi was itch so would the missy the other dog, correct me if Im wrong?

I will demand to see a derm when we head to the vets this week I felt a bit fobbed off the last visit I strongly believe they flea isnt the cause as he is now itching all over (head to tail). I feel helpless I wish there was something I could do for him he's so distressed as am I

EDT to add:

Also on the food thing I am really struggling to get him to eat one chicken wing or patty let alone any other food, he hasnt been anything unless I know he's eatn wha I have given him so no kongs etc which is not bothering him at the moment as he is too busy scratching himself to death!

Oh and tlc I will get onto adding more pics he's massive now growing so fast I miss my little pup ;) even if he does thing hes still little and wants to cuddle on my lap running out of room on there

Edited January 2, 2011 by Vader's mum

[CrazyCresties]

I have no advice regarding the itchy side of things I'm afraid, but I used to be on a large cocker forum, and so many of the pups would 'turn fussy' at around 5 -6 months of age. This is when they also start teething I believe - maybe try offering him a frozen stuffed kong, he may find that soothing. But whatever you feed, you need to be firm and stick with one thing until he eats it, don't swap and changed his food around a lot in the hope he'll like something. Have you tried him on lamb ribs at all?

Good luck with his itchiness

[Steve]

Firstly the food: Over the past few weeks kenobi has been off his food he use to woof it down like it was going out of fashion it would usually take him a min or so to eat 2 chicken wings now he plays with it and leaves it alone and its a struggle to get him to eat. Same with his BARF patties used to love them now nothing. Nothing has changed what I give him, he has also started burying his food something he never used to do which is painful as there is another dog who steals his food (I dont want my boy to starve). Is this common or is it something more serious?

I also want to know how much I meant to be giving him? He's 5 month old beagle I give him 2 chicken wings in the morning and night and some dry food during the day or 2 chicken wings or some BARF patties mixed with dry food it alternated breakfast and dinner. I keep getting he's two skinny but Im afraid to over feed him (well I was not at the moment as he's not eating). I personally dont think he looks that thin but I am fed up with the comments I thought I would ask if it should be more.

Now for the itching! This is driving me nuts god knows how my wee boy is feeling! He is constantly scratching if hes not asleep, doing his business or distracted (even if its for a few mins) he is scratching like a mad man! I took him to the vets and asked she found a flea on him so we treated for fleas and it was better for a few days then back at it like a mad man! he his nawing himself raw in places mostly his knee area. She told us to give him fish oil tablets which we have been doing and his skin is looking better (looked like dandruff) but hes still a mad man he has a few "scabs" but they are so tiny its not spearding its just around the top of the tail area. So I am at a loss and Im worried about him its distressing for me I cant think of what its like for him

Oh yeah we were feeding him sardines but god they didnt agree with him or my nose! and there is no wandering jew in the yard. I should also mention when we went up to my mums for chrissy he didnt scratch as much she doesnt have lawn so I was wondering if it was maybe connected to lawn?

As it gets hotter and he gets bigger so less growing to do he will eat less. Put the food down and anything he doesnt eat in 10 mins take away. If you give him dry food as well as the raw it digests differently. So raw food given on its own moves through pretty quickly so the bacteria etc which is in it doesnt affect them .When you add the dry at the same time it can make the raw food stay in there longer than it normally would.

There is absolutely definitely nothing what ever which would suggest that the problem might be coming from chicken - it's possible but his ancestors have been eating raw chicken as the main part of their diet for at least 15 generations that Im aware of and it would be the last thing on my list of trying to work out whats happening.

There are a couple of clues in your post - he was itchy and when you took him to the vet and treated the fleas he was better for a few days would seem to imply the problem is fleas - if it wasnt then why did it get better? The area around the top of his tail is nice and warm so any bugs are going to settle in there first.

If it were contact allergens such as grass etc you would see it on his feet and legs and if it were wandering jew etc you would see it on his face.

To test whether he is too thin clench your fist and bend your wrist toward the inside of your arm. Rub your hand over the skin and feel it - that how his ribs should feel.

Regardless of the cause if he is reacting as badly as you describe its an immune system issue so you need to approach it by trying to look at him holistically and not just one bit at a time.

You can add a capful of apple cidar vinegar to every 2 litres of water for him to drink and you can rinse him in a laundry tub x 1 cup of apple cidar vinegar after he is bathed,you can also add 20 mils of Aloe Vera Juice per day and put aloe on any where he is itchy.

The first two things I would try is a spot on for fleas and take out the dry food.

You know where I am if you need me and that letter you are waiting on is being posted on Tuesday.

Julie

[persephone]

..and remember- dogs can be allergic to almost anything - grasses/pollen/food ingredients/proteins in food/ingredients in shampoos/cleaners etc ..

so it is not just a matter of wandering dew or a food ........... allergies need the help of a dermatologist, ideally. The area around the tail base IS the 'classic' flea allergy spot- as most dogs can't reach there to chew the fleas.. so it is where the flea/s settle ;)

Hope your boy settles with the polaramine ...

and what Steve says in her excellent post !

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

You're introducing rice - can you perhaps explain why you're doing this?

Dogs aren't good at coping with grains. It's one (of many) reasons why lower quality processed foods are responsible for causing so many problems for sensitive dogs.

Go right back to basics.

1. Feed two meals per day only. Get rid of every new food that you've recently introduced. Put the food down and remove in 10 mins as others have said. If the dog did okay on the dry, then just feed the dry. Perhaps find a higher quality dry to try once the dog settles down somewhat. If you research in this forum, there is a wide range of what people feed - many use brands such as Eagle Pack, Canidae, Royal Canin, etc with great success. Yes, they cost more but you feed less and if the dog does better then it's worth the slight increase in expenditure.

2. Check the dog and environment for fleas. If the dog has fleas it will scratch. A cheap flea comb will show if there are fleas on the dog and it will remove them and the flea dirt. Put the comb into hot water as it catches the fleas...hot water kills them on contact.

3. Look at the dog's skin. If the dog is rubbing its face on surfaces, if the dog is chewing its paws, these are two signs of something other than fleas causing irritation. If the skin is red and raw/broken, the dog is scratching a lot and not getting relief. This sort of thing suggests allergic response. What is causing that can be a long time in finding and you may never find everything which is causing it. If the dog is sensitive to fleas, once the fleas are gone the irritation should go too.

4. Don't bath the dog too often until the skin issue is under control.

5. Don't give supplements as I may have mentioned earlier.

6. Apply an anti-inflammatory and antibiotic ointment to the worst areas of skin - you need to see the vet for this. Ask for something like Ilium Neocort.

Definitely give the dog time to settle and if you are going to bath, use a gentle oatmeal shampoo or one your vet prescribes.

Edited January 2, 2011 by lillysmum

[dasha]

As Steve said. Try and cut out the dry food and try that.

If he is now itchy all over to the point that he is scratching all over and can't sit still for more tha a few minutes without scratching that could be more than fleas.

If he has been to bushland or parks he could have picked up a mange mite. My pup got that when she was about that age and was beside herself with scratching. I was paranoid she was going to be Atopic like the last dog I had as he started as being itchy from a young age too. She had a few red marks on her but not much and so vet did a skin scrape and found A mite. We treated her for 6 weeks and she was then great.

You could always treat him with revolution every 2 weeks for 6 weeks and see if it helps. That will treat mange mites at that rate. It will also take care of the fleas. If that doesn't help it could then be environment or food. If you can eliminate one reason, when you go back to vet you will get your money worth. At the moment I don't think a dermatologist is the next step untill you have tried to eliminate the more basic causes. The local vet can help with that advice or Steve.

Personally I would do the Revolution every 2 weeks for 6-8 weeks. That will rule out fleas and mites.

Then try the foods. But it can take 6 or so weeks for the allergen to leave the body in some cases so a food trial will last for 6-8 weeks feeding ONLY certain foods to rule out the others. the more complex his diet, the harder it is to work out what may be causing it.

If the allergy is a contact thing, he will be itchy where teh plant or whatever contacts him. So that will be more likely face (around eyes and mouth will get red and maybe a bit of hairloss), belly, inner thighs, inner ears will be hot or red, paws (pads will be red) Basically where the hair is thiner and things can contact the skin.

Fleas are generally over the rump area.

All over is more like food, mites, or something ingested.

Edited January 2, 2011 by dasha

[Vader's mum]

Thanks all were off to the vets this week to speak about it in depth see what it might be and not be. Steve thanks for the advice I have been putting paw paw ointment on his "raw" bits and seems to sooth him for a bit at least.

Thanks again everyone lets hope we can get him some relief!