Sandra777 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Got NothinI also thought, whether you manage to register them or not, that they could not be legally bred, and therefore sold in Aus. My understanding was that if you already own a pitty, it has to be registered with council, it has to be desexed, and in essence once the existing pitties in Aus die out, then that will be the end of the breed here.Is the "rule" that a pit bull cannot be bred from in Aus? Registering APBT in Australia is illegal, as breeding the dogs is illegal. Except - presumably? in states where it's not illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Please direct me to the laws which say it is illegal to register A Pit bull in Australia. Bit difficult to pull that one when the councils want them all registered with them. There is no suggestion that pit bull puppies would be bred and registered in Australia - the people who were enquiring were asking if they could add their dogs which already have a registered pedigree with another registry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 There are some good breeders in the NT, no doubt they'd like to do the right thing and register with a legit registry in here in Aus. There are plenty rego'd with councils as they are legal in the NT and ACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abed Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I have never felt the Pitbull situation was met with a great deal of intelligence from the onset. When the hammer began to fall on the APBT the breeders and enthusiasts instead of arguing about needed IMHO to have got together and formed a solution to get rid of the Pitbull terminology altogether. Years ago they could have swung the Amstaff theme into place easily and just had a working line version of the Amstaff and got on with life. They probably would have had to register some ABPT's under Amstaff pedigrees initially, but generations down the track today it wouldn't matter, breed preserved, no BSL issues, no Pitbulls in Australia concept, too easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I have never felt the Pitbull situation was met with a great deal of intelligence from the onset. When the hammer began to fall on the APBT the breeders and enthusiasts instead of arguing about needed IMHO to have got together and formed a solution to get rid of the Pitbull terminology altogether. Years ago they could have swung the Amstaff theme into place easily and just had a working line version of the Amstaff and got on with life. They probably would have had to register some ABPT's under Amstaff pedigrees initially, but generations down the track today it wouldn't matter, breed preserved, no BSL issues, no Pitbulls in Australia concept, too easy Oh good - wholesale paper hanging (FRAUD) would have saved the breed. Nope, IMO this would have taken the Amstaff out as well. What IMO should have happened was the original importers should have been less money hungry and more interested in the actual welfare of the breed and stopped the breed falling into the hands of f-wit owners who weren't fit to own a pet rock let alone a powerful intelligent eager to please breed. And perhaps a little more care in the source of the original imports wouldn't have gone astray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm sure some imported Amstaffs have been dual registered, is that "paper hanging"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) I'm sure some imported Amstaffs have been dual registered, is that "paper hanging"? They had to be Amstaff's in the first place. You can register an AKC "Amstaff" as a Pit Bull, with other registries in the US. What you can't do ( unless you want to tell lies ) is register a APBT with the AKC. Edited January 3, 2011 by ReadySetGo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm sure some imported Amstaffs have been dual registered, is that "paper hanging"? It was until recently within the rules to register an AKC Amstaff with the UKC as an APBT. Except for a brief period in the '60's (70's?) it has not been within the rules to register a UKC APBT with the AKC as an Amstaff. When the UKC APBTs were accepted by the AKC in the '60's ('70's?) it was done openly and with the AKC's blessing for a specific reason - not through switching and ducking with puppies to deceive buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yep I'm aware of these things, but it still doesn't make it false and it doesn't mean people are selling something under false pretense. So if I was really hung up on the fact that my dog had to be apbt i would find someone whose imported a dual rego'd dog. Many people out there are calling amstaffs pits just to sound tough.. why i don't know, as amstaffs can do that all by themselves. and many believe thay are the same, 2 very convincing arguments and too much to get into on this thread. As for foreign registries some are very strict and others really don't mean much. I think you can rego first generation pits with teh APBR with only photographic proof for evidence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yep I'm aware of these things, but it still doesn't make it false and it doesn't mean people are selling something under false pretense. Selling APBTs with ANKC papers which say they're Amstaffs is definitely false and definitely does make it false pretenses. Selling any dog with papers that don't actually relate to that dog is false - it's not a matter of are the breeds interchangable, that's a whole different argument :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Sandra I think we have our wires crossed.. selling one thing as another is false you're correct. I meant that if someone wants to call an amstaff (that has dual papers in the states) a pitbull then they're well within their rights to do so. Have dual reg'd dogs have been imported and then registered with the AKNC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abed Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yep I'm aware of these things, but it still doesn't make it false and it doesn't mean people are selling something under false pretense. Selling APBTs with ANKC papers which say they're Amstaffs is definitely false and definitely does make it false pretenses. Selling any dog with papers that don't actually relate to that dog is false - it's not a matter of are the breeds interchangable, that's a whole different argument :D False pretenses or not Sandra777, if I had to make a choice between handing a perfectly good dog over for euthanasia based on breed or supply a false set of papers to remove the heat from my dog, I would choose the papers, there is no contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Can someone please point out to me In any legislation here that It's illegal to breed APBT where there Is no BSL please As I understand It, no BSL means all dogs are free to be bred Is Is not ETA: Never mind, I think I found my answer, and It's not illegal to breed APBT where there Is NO BSL Registering APBT in Australia is illegal, as breeding the dogs is illegal Jed you need to edit your post as It Is totally misleading, I believe It's not Illegal to register them In ALL states either, provided you follow the laws in that particular state/Council Edited January 6, 2011 by RottnBullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Sandra I think we have our wires crossed.. selling one thing as another is false you're correct.I meant that if someone wants to call an amstaff (that has dual papers in the states) a pitbull then they're well within their rights to do so. Have dual reg'd dogs have been imported and then registered with the AKNC? No problem with this scenario at all - and yes I would guess dual registered dogs have been registered with the ANKC, no reason why the couldn't be. I guess it begs the question - which breed are these specific dogs seen as by their owners (eg why did their owners buy these specific dogs?) but I would be surprised if they considered them APBT's as they come from Amstaff bloodlines (have to if they're AKC registered Amstaffs) not APBT lines. Probably not good for either breed but certainly easier on the brain now the cross registration has been stopped Edited January 6, 2011 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Apologies - I forgot APBT were legal in the two Australian territories. There is no BSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxiedog Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A couple of questions re APBTs;1) As far as I was aware "restricted dogs may not be sold, given away, or acquired... " 2) Local guy swears black and blue that his dogs are APBTs. (Fair enough, they certainly look the part and seem lovely dogs). BUT he also claims to be a breeder and that his "breeding pair" (who look to be no more than 4-5 years old) were directly imported from the US. Claims he has moved here recently from NSW. Me thinks someone is full of it.... but I'm still curious as to the import laws, including any that have changed over the last 5-10 years or so. Can anyone settle my curiosity? Thank you Well a bloke not far from us was found with a black mamba, breeding pair of king cobras and a tank full of piranha. If its possible to own one of these in Australia an imported restricted dog is a walk in the park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A couple of questions re APBTs;1) As far as I was aware "restricted dogs may not be sold, given away, or acquired... " 2) Local guy swears black and blue that his dogs are APBTs. (Fair enough, they certainly look the part and seem lovely dogs). BUT he also claims to be a breeder and that his "breeding pair" (who look to be no more than 4-5 years old) were directly imported from the US. Claims he has moved here recently from NSW. Me thinks someone is full of it.... but I'm still curious as to the import laws, including any that have changed over the last 5-10 years or so. Can anyone settle my curiosity? Thank you Well a bloke not far from us was found with a black mamba, breeding pair of king cobras and a tank full of piranha. If its possible to own one of these in Australia an imported restricted dog is a walk in the park Bloody Hell! You're dead right on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 You'd be surprised what actually comes through Into Australia regarding reptiles that aren't supposed to be here hence Illegal, but that's a whole other topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjc Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 There are loopholes everywhere if you dont want to break any laws. It is still legal to travel to act and buy one then take it home to a bsl state if you need. Obviously depending on what your local councils rules on the breed are. UKC still has Amstaffs that are dual registered as APBT in the usa, dont tell the amstaff breeders that they hate to admit that the dog that set the breed standard was in fact an APBT a dog from the Colby family named Primo. They all say that is not true but you can easily find out, lou colby is still alive breeding horses and apbt, he has never bred or sold an amstaff ever. Most breed fanciers are interested in their dogs history and own overseas regd dogs either ADBA, my dog is NZ regd. Its just a peice of paper but paper hangers abuse it so i guess you would have to be carefull. Take into account that 90% of the puppy peddlers in this breed in Aus wouldnt know the first thing about the ped of the dog nor would they care, they are breeding for a blackmarket dog that fetches dollars and that is where it ends for them, they are the first to drop the line names but are the last to know anything about the lines. Also alot of the dogs here are from the first imported dogs that were still legally imported before the bsl kicked in. Look at it this way where there is a will there is a way and if you have the money and want it bad enough you can make it happen. All you need is the right paper work, and a pass for rabies. The funny thing is the people that are realy going to be hurt by the laws are the ones who realy love the breed and want them to stay but its a battle we will never win mainly as a commonwealth we will allways follow suit and the pitbull problem wins too many votes than it loses with polys. The sellers of the black market dogs are just in it for the bucks, there are obviously a few people who are still breeding the breed they love but the dogs are going to safe family homes, friends or staying with the breeders, its just the few that unfortunatly get out of those hands and into the morons who flaunt the dogs and put high price tags up to 2k a pup. Its easy to tell these people as the dogs are not in the 30 pound to 50 pound range as the peddlers are not breeding selectivly they sell and breed any old dog with a red nose and couldnt care less about the temperement of the dogs as long as they line their pockets. I am sure it gets more in depth than this but thats the way i have read it and i have owned quite a few over the years, and have had lots to do with other owners over the years, but i will say this, the way it is now the laws are pretty much working, the fanciers of the breed have been scared into hiding many no longer own the breed or dont make it known at all any more. I use to know many know i barely know a few owners. Even sadder that if the breed were not thrown into the black market they wouldnt be anywhere near as opular with that culture and they would be easier to regulate. I am certainly sure that no matter what the laws are they are here to stay at some level and if the real lovers want to keep them they will find a way to and the quiker the ilegal trade stops of the breed the better off the breed will be over here. At least then the owners that have them want to have them and are not just using them as a status symbol or simply a means to line the wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncarter Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 so apbt breeders in ACT and NT, when they want new lines, are they forced to import from NZ under the alias that the pup is a stafford or amstaff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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