Apbt Papers And Imports?

[Red Fox]

A couple of questions re APBTs;

1) As far as I was aware "restricted dogs may not be sold, given away, or acquired... "

Along with the following laws; "...must be spay/neutered. They must be muzzled when in public, wear a special red-and-yellow collar, and may only be handled by a competent adult over the age of 18. The dog must live a secure enclosure when at home, and the owner must post "Warning: Dangerous Dog" signs on their property. The owner must also register the dog with the local government and notify the government if the dog attacks a person or animal, cannot be found, dies, has moved out of the area, or is now living at a different location within the local government's jurisdiction."

*source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation

So why does a Google search reveal sellers in almost every state advertising "pitbull puppies" or "red nosed staffies" including one WA breeder with a website, plus a few random breeders offereing pups with papers. How does a non ANKC registered restricted breed aquire papers

Some also claim imported lines, top producing sires, etc.

2) Local guy swears black and blue that his dogs are APBTs. (Fair enough, they certainly look the part and seem lovely dogs). BUT he also claims to be a breeder and that his "breeding pair" (who look to be no more than 4-5 years old) were directly imported from the US. Claims he has moved here recently from NSW. Me thinks someone is full of it.... but I'm still curious as to the import laws, including any that have changed over the last 5-10 years or so.

Can anyone settle my curiosity?

Thank you

Edited January 1, 2011 by SecretKei

[Animal Lover]

The laws very slightly per state I think, Canberra ACT at one stage didn't have restriction, not sure if it changed though, but most flights won't accept Pitty type dogs

Importing of Animals to australia

Animal import information australia

as there was problems with someone Am Staffy in QLD, and they thought it looked Pitty so they put in sheter, and the owner had to pay tones of $$$$ to get the dog out!

Edited December 31, 2010 by Animal Lover

[korbin13]

Having looked at the AQIS site it looks as though you could just say that your pet is a staffy x and hope no one disputes it? Would be an expensive risk but some people will do anything!

[GeckoTree]

hjgdfsjgh

Edited December 31, 2010 by -GT-

[GeckoTree]

1} the regs is an arse and all ways has been from inception, they can't work to what they think they would ever work just like USA's alcohol prohibition etc etc..

2)

what does aqis and customs paperworks say to import dogs? a stat declaration saying it isnt a prohibited dog, and veterinary documentssaying what breed or crosses the pet is? , nothing else, as far as I know the federal government don't have a breed ID. Thats seems to just be state laws.,and very poor ones at that.

papers are what ever pedigree the dog is or what ever pit bull or all breed registry they are registered with.

Edited December 31, 2010 by -GT-

[Steve]

How does a non ANKC registered breed aquire papers

Because the ANKC is only ONE of hundreds of registries - some breeds decide they dont want ANKC recognition .

Its a huge mistake to assume that breeds recognised by the ANKC are the only ones which are recognised breeds or that can provide bonefide registered pedigrees.

Just because the ANKC dont issue the pedigree certificates doesnt mean the pedigrees are any less authentic.

[dasha]

Some people risk it with prohibited animals all the time.

Sometimes its called smuggling.

Animals that are smuggled are the ones that suffer. If they survive the trip, they are euthanised when found. If they aren't discovered they are then involved in black market trading.

If its dog or cat, they are re-exported before they leave the quarantine station.

A SUSPECTED Savannah cat was re-exported last year at the owners expense.

So if there is a suspicion on a dog or cat of its heritage, re-export or Euthanasia are the treatment options if it coming through as a import in a Quarantine station.

[Red Fox]

How does a non ANKC registered breed aquire papers

Because the ANKC is only ONE of hundreds of registries - some breeds decide they dont want ANKC recognition .

Its a huge mistake to assume that breeds recognised by the ANKC are the only ones which are recognised breeds or that can provide bonefide registered pedigrees.

Just because the ANKC dont issue the pedigree certificates doesnt mean the pedigrees are any less authentic.

Yes, I'm well aware of this :D However is there a breed registery for restricted breeds in Australia though with the current BSL laws, being that (according to most state laws) they cannot legally be bred, sold or aquired?

[abed]

How does a non ANKC registered breed aquire papers

Because the ANKC is only ONE of hundreds of registries - some breeds decide they dont want ANKC recognition .

Its a huge mistake to assume that breeds recognised by the ANKC are the only ones which are recognised breeds or that can provide bonefide registered pedigrees.

Just because the ANKC dont issue the pedigree certificates doesnt mean the pedigrees are any less authentic.

Yes, I'm well aware of this :D However is there a breed registery for restricted breeds in Australia though with the current BSL laws, being that (according to most state laws) they cannot legally be bred, sold or aquired?

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry.

[Jed]

How does a non ANKC registered breed aquire papers

Because the ANKC is only ONE of hundreds of registries - some breeds decide they dont want ANKC recognition .

Its a huge mistake to assume that breeds recognised by the ANKC are the only ones which are recognised breeds or that can provide bonefide registered pedigrees.

Just because the ANKC dont issue the pedigree certificates doesnt mean the pedigrees are any less authentic.

Yes, I'm well aware of this However is there a breed registery for restricted breeds in Australia though with the current BSL laws, being that (according to most state laws) they cannot legally be bred, sold or aquired?

American Pit Bull Terriers have their own registry in America. Most of the dogs, even if born and bred in Australia, are registered with that registry. APBT owners have never been interested in the ANKC as a registry, the APBT registry in America began years before. There are also 3 major registries in the USA - 2 are pretty dogdy though - but APBT can be registered there in different registries.

abed

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry

It is possible. There are dodgy people out there. I doubt that it is widespread, as most Amstaff breeders are aware of the multitude of problems this could cause all Amstaffs. It's easy enough to tell lies to breeders, and it's easy enough to deal with breeders who don't care. If this practice is ever proved, I think we can kiss Amstaffs goodbye, they will be banned in a nano second by the government.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Jed

[Sandra777]

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry.

Be a bit hard selling someone an APBT with papers when, if they read the papers it says Amstaff

There are a number of APBT registries (legit ones) in the USA - and they will register dogs bred outside the USA so yes it is perfectly possible to register APBT's with a legit registry - and just as easy to make your own papers which truthfully show the dogs ancestry. It doesn't require an organisation to keep track of breeding stock.

Imports - wouldn't really fancy your chances of getting juvenile/adult APBT's from the USA through quarantine, but US bloodlines from NZ, really not a big deal - can you tell the difference between an 8 week old APBT puppy and an 8 week old SBT puppy??? (Personally I think I could, but not many in AQIS would be able to when they couldn't identify my full grown bitch - a specialist BIS winner!)

Edited January 1, 2011 by Sandra777

[Lyla]

I was wondering this as well, as a certain webite has many pitty breeders Aus wide selling pups.

I also thought, whether you manage to register them or not, that they could not be legally bred, and therefore sold in Aus. My understanding was that if you already own a pitty, it has to be registered with council, it has to be desexed, and in essence once the existing pitties in Aus die out, then that will be the end of the breed here.

Is the "rule" that a pit bull cannot be bred from in Aus?

[Steve]

We have been contacted by two people since we opened our new registry to ask if we would accept US papered Pit bulls on our main stud registry.

[Steve]

I was wondering this as well, as a certain webite has many pitty breeders Aus wide selling pups.

I also thought, whether you manage to register them or not, that they could not be legally bred, and therefore sold in Aus. My understanding was that if you already own a pitty, it has to be registered with council, it has to be desexed, and in essence once the existing pitties in Aus die out, then that will be the end of the breed here.

Is the "rule" that a pit bull cannot be bred from in Aus?

The law says they cant be bred but they are still obviously being bred and some of them are pedigreed and registered as pittys .

[abed]

How does a non ANKC registered breed aquire papers

Because the ANKC is only ONE of hundreds of registries - some breeds decide they dont want ANKC recognition .

Its a huge mistake to assume that breeds recognised by the ANKC are the only ones which are recognised breeds or that can provide bonefide registered pedigrees.

Just because the ANKC dont issue the pedigree certificates doesnt mean the pedigrees are any less authentic.

Yes, I'm well aware of this However is there a breed registery for restricted breeds in Australia though with the current BSL laws, being that (according to most state laws) they cannot legally be bred, sold or aquired?

American Pit Bull Terriers have their own registry in America. Most of the dogs, even if born and bred in Australia, are registered with that registry. APBT owners have never been interested in the ANKC as a registry, the APBT registry in America began years before. There are also 3 major registries in the USA - 2 are pretty dogdy though - but APBT can be registered there in different registries.

abed

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry

It is possible. There are dodgy people out there. I doubt that it is widespread, as most Amstaff breeders are aware of the multitude of problems this could cause all Amstaffs. It's easy enough to tell lies to breeders, and it's easy enough to deal with breeders who don't care. If this practice is ever proved, I think we can kiss Amstaffs goodbye, they will be banned in a nano second by the government.

There was supposedly a GSD breeder a few years back used to put litters up against the wrong parentage and breed unregistered dogs and had their prefix cancelled in the end when caught out so the story went at the time???. When there is legislation issues with the breed, a stunt to keep them safe could be a motivator they justify perhaps???.

[Red Fox]

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry.

Be a bit hard selling someone an APBT with papers when, if they read the papers it says Amstaff

There are a number of APBT registries (legit ones) in the USA - and they will register dogs bred outside the USA so yes it is perfectly possible to register APBT's with a legit registry - and just as easy to make your own papers which truthfully show the dogs ancestry. It doesn't require an organisation to keep track of breeding stock.

Imports - wouldn't really fancy your chances of getting juvenile/adult APBT's from the USA through quarantine, but US bloodlines from NZ, really not a big deal - can you tell the difference between an 8 week old APBT puppy and an 8 week old SBT puppy??? (Personally I think I could, but not many in AQUIS would be able to when they couldn't identify my full grown bitch - a specialist BIS winner!)

Thank you, that makes sense. I didn't realise that a dog born in Australia could be registered O/S.

Re selling an APBT with Amstaff papers, well I suppose it would protect the dog from being targeted under BSL...

[abed]

I have been told on occasion that some are registered as Amstaffs which I guess wouldn't have been a difficult process. If there is any truth in it, an APBT breeder would only have to buy a pair of Amstaffs on main reg or use a friends papers against an APBT litter for a legality aspect. The ANKC would be none the wiser, neither would the ranger on a breed enquiry.

Be a bit hard selling someone an APBT with papers when, if they read the papers it says Amstaff

There are a number of APBT registries (legit ones) in the USA - and they will register dogs bred outside the USA so yes it is perfectly possible to register APBT's with a legit registry - and just as easy to make your own papers which truthfully show the dogs ancestry. It doesn't require an organisation to keep track of breeding stock.

Imports - wouldn't really fancy your chances of getting juvenile/adult APBT's from the USA through quarantine, but US bloodlines from NZ, really not a big deal - can you tell the difference between an 8 week old APBT puppy and an 8 week old SBT puppy??? (Personally I think I could, but not many in AQUIS would be able to when they couldn't identify my full grown bitch - a specialist BIS winner!)

What I heard, the pups weren't sold as Amstaffs and the people buying the APBT's knew they were restricted and the breeder provided an additional service to satisfy the legislation and reduce the likelyhood of breed recognition issues with an unpapered dog.

[Sandra777]

What I heard, the pups weren't sold as Amstaffs and the people buying the APBT's knew they were restricted and the breeder provided an additional service to satisfy the legislation and reduce the likelyhood of breed recognition issues with an unpapered dog.

OK - that's not how I read your original statement but would work if both buyer and seller understood what was going on. (note: did not say it was right, just said it would work)

[D & D]

We have been contacted by two people since we opened our new registry to ask if we would accept US papered Pit bulls on our main stud registry.

What was your answer?

once the existing pitties in Aus die out, then that will be the end of the breed here.

Is the "rule" that a pit bull cannot be bred from in Aus?

The law says they cant be bred but they are still obviously being bred and some of them are pedigreed and registered as pittys .

There are no BSL laws in the NT (or ACT from memory). They can be bred legally here, we're part of Australia, too.

[Jed]

Got Nothin

I also thought, whether you manage to register them or not, that they could not be legally bred, and therefore sold in Aus. My understanding was that if you already own a pitty, it has to be registered with council, it has to be desexed, and in essence once the existing pitties in Aus die out, then that will be the end of the breed here.

Is the "rule" that a pit bull cannot be bred from in Aus?

Registering APBT in Australia is illegal, as breeding the dogs is illegal. It is unlikely that USA registries would care, and would be prepred to register the dogs. Problem is tht anyone who is registering them is flaunting themselves as breaking the law and it is more than possible that someone from the council will be around to seize the dogs, put them down, and prosecute the people who are breeding them. Councils can pick up names and addresses from ads, so anyone advertising is actually inviting people to call to seize the dogs. I often think those advertising do not know about bans/ Surely not? Surely they are simply disobeying the law?

As the current legislation stands, any Australian registry which was prepared to register APBT would also be flaunting the law, and could find themselves with all records seized, as the search for illegally bred and registered dogs continued. And perhaps in deep legal s##t with the government

The APBT club in Aust. will do none of these things, because they behave legally and honourably.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Jed