Could This Be An Answer?

[Sandra777]

I have some friends (i use the term rather loosely now....) who really wanted a puppy.

I gave them the puppy farm talk, the names and numbers of various breeders, the contact info for rescues in their area and because they didn't want to wait they got a puppy from a frigging pet store! :D

Been there, got the t-shirt, but the puppy didn't come from a puppy farm because the pet shop person said so. Ignorance truly is bliss

[Adza]

It sounds like a good idea to me, but might not stop impulse buying, some just don't care as long as they get the pup NOW.

I spoke to my niece about this and we were talking about pet shops, her bf was going to buy her a puppy from a pet shop, I said nooooo. I told her what goes on and she says she will stay away. But she couldn't stop the "but they are soooo cute"

I think they should just be banned from selling live animals, I can't see what else you can do, there are a lot of people out there who simply don't care about the background of where the pups come from or are easily convinced if the pet shop says "they came from breeders"

[Jed]

This is a FANTASTIC idea. Most byb who breed a litter or two a year in their lounge would mostly be happy but the puppy farmers ..... I think not, Yep. Great idea.

don't think it is the conplete answer, but it is part of the whole answer. Just keep nibbing away at it.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Jed

[Nekhbet]

dogs are considered chattle and as such I dont see why it would make a massive diffence as to the identity of the breeder. There is no personal accountability of the breeder considering pups are now purchased from a middle man. Many stores might refuse considering the current problems puppy farmers/high volume breeders now get from animal liberationists and they could argue it's opening their details to the public when in fact they dont want them out there (and in fact they have a right to privacy). Retail stores dont advertise their wholesalers why should PP be any different.

Educating people as to the benefits of getting a dog from a breeder you can visit, speak to directly, see the parents etc would be a more useful system. Some petshops provide you with vaccination certificates with the original veterinarian/breeders name already, doesnt make a difference when there is a wriggling, fluffy puppy in a persons arms and a credit card in their wallet.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Nekhbet

[Christina]

I can't see how this will make any difference.

May make the pet shop look good but that's all.

The public knowing the name of the person or place the puppies come from will not mean anything to them.

They have no way of knowing the conditions of the dogs there or how they were raised.

Whether the breeder is registered, commercial or BYB will give no indication.

Some pet shops do not visit the "breeder" of the pups they sell. The pups are brought in to them. They have to record name, address & sight ID of person selling. That is all.

Some people think a council permit for a breeding establishment means they are professional & knowledgeable breeders & must care for the dogs properly. Many puppy farms are council approved.

Re post about rules in the UK. They are also having a problem with puppy farms, particularly in Wales at present, so this does not work there either.

There is no way of making pet shop sales all ok & ethical.

The only way to buy a puppy is to go to the persons home/kennel & see for yourself the conditions, anyone can say anything on paper, documents or the internet.

Or get a rescue pup & take a chance but save a life.

[Erny]

Although it is not the ideal answer for the 'here and now' short term, I still think the best thing is going to be about public awareness campaigns and making it socially unacceptable/undesirable to purchase a pet via pet stores as they now do. Kind of like how they've made cigarette smokers feel like lepers. It is still a legal drug but it is socially unacceptable in many places and to many people. Keep sending out the message in all the varying ways it can be sent and make it very untrendy to purchase from a venue where the health scores of the pups and the pups' parentage is unknown or uncertain (unless of course you've done the very excellent thing by adopting a homeless dog). I don't think it is about laws and more regulation.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Erny

[Sheridan]

I can't see how this will make any difference.

May make the pet shop look good but that's all.

The public knowing the name of the person or place the puppies come from will not mean anything to them.

They have no way of knowing the conditions of the dogs there or how they were raised.

Whether the breeder is registered, commercial or BYB will give no indication.

Some pet shops do not visit the "breeder" of the pups they sell. The pups are brought in to them. They have to record name, address & sight ID of person selling. That is all.

Some people think a council permit for a breeding establishment means they are professional & knowledgeable breeders & must care for the dogs properly. Many puppy farms are council approved.

Re post about rules in the UK. They are also having a problem with puppy farms, particularly in Wales at present, so this does not work there either.

There is no way of making pet shop sales all ok & ethical.

The only way to buy a puppy is to go to the persons home/kennel & see for yourself the conditions, anyone can say anything on paper, documents or the internet.

Or get a rescue pup & take a chance but save a life.

I didn't see my current or my previous wheaten 'in situ' at all. Funnily enough, they turned out okay. I didn't see them until they arrived and I didn't meet the breeder until he delivered Grumpy to me. I find the increasing insistence from some quarters of seeing where the puppy was born is quite peculiar. It isn't everything about getting a dog nor does it always give an accurate picture of how the pup was raised.

[Cosmolo]

Its not about targetting those people who don't care where their pups come from, or making the pet shops look good. Its about allowing those buyers who are educated to a degree to be able to see for sure where their pup comes from instead of the pet shop simply saying they all come from a 'breeder'.

[Sheridan]

Its not about targetting those people who don't care where their pups come from, or making the pet shops look good. Its about allowing those buyers who are educated to a degree to be able to see for sure where their pup comes from instead of the pet shop simply saying they all come from a 'breeder'.

Surely, the educated are already going to know where a pet shop puppy is likely to come from. I would have thought a focus on those who don't think about the consequences of getting a pup from a pet shop would be better for animal welfare in the long run.

[Souff]

So many good points made in this thread.

When I buy oranges from the supermarket, each orange has a little sticker on it. Same with the furry kiwi fruit. "Hobbits Farm Oranges" or "Ridgydidge Apples " or some such thing. I pick the stickers off before I give the peels to the chooks, otherwise I might end up with chooks guts all blocked up with adhesive stickers! Note, I did read them. But I honestly didnt think too much about what those places were like.

I sell a pup. I got to know the people and their kids quite well, after all, they were here every second weekend with more toys for the little pup even before the eyes were open. They had been months before that too and we had talked about many things. They had the puppy care sheet and all sorts of stuff to read - hours of consideration had gone into the wording they were supposed to read, all about the things that they had to do to keep their puppy healthy, all of which is based on modern veterinary principles and decades of breed experience. Three weeks after the pup went home, the phone rings. They were not really too sure about what the next type of food should be .... not a biggy. And when could they start with the heartworming stuff. Nice caring people. I mentioned that all that is included in the puppy care sheet and there was a slight clearing of the throat on the other end of the phone. Ah yes, there was some paperwork wasnt there. Truth is, these people were so smitten with the puppy and yes, they lead busy lives, the paperwork was not really of much interest to them at all. The puppy was far more important. I could write a long list about such puppy buyers and how some of them ended up with quite nasty vet bills, all because they did not read the puppy care sheet. It was no doubt neatly filed away somewhere ....

We can put labels on pups and state where they come from. It might even create some more employment for somebody, but there is something scratching around in the back of my head that seems to indicate that most buyers wont even bother to read it.

They will be too busy enjoying their puppy!

People go to a PET shop because they are buying a PET. It is going to take a very long time to change that mind set.

And to those people who think that pet shops will be made to stop selling live animals, well, please don't hold your breath.

It ain't gonna happen .... at least not until you change the federal trade laws first.

As breeders I think the best thing we can do is to continue to BREED WELL and to PRACTICE GOOD ANIMAL WELFARE and to continue to PROMOTE the fact that we breed well and practice good animal welfare.

If we don't tell anybody that that is what we do, then how can they be expected to know?

Souff

[WoofnHoof]

Totally agree Souff, if breeders don't get out there and promote then how can Joe public be blamed for buying a pet from a pet shop? Most people don't go to dog shows because they don't want a show dog so they see no need to go to a dog show, why is breeding for the pet market such a bad thing if the animals are quality and the homes are checked for suitability?

[Souff]

Totally agree Souff, if breeders don't get out there and promote then how can Joe public be blamed for buying a pet from a pet shop? Most people don't go to dog shows because they don't want a show dog so they see no need to go to a dog show, why is breeding for the pet market such a bad thing if the animals are quality and the homes are checked for suitability?

I have a belief that "Promotion of their Product" is something that most of the purebred dog world fails miserably at ...... in an age where EVERYTHING is promoted.

We have generations of people who have been brought up by promotions and the advertising world .... since birth.

We left the post war era behind some time back - customers have a far greater range of options than what they did back then and most of the customers will no longer automatically come to you, simply because you have been breeding "XXX" breed of dog for many years and have a wall full of show ribbons.

The Royals only happen once a year and in amongst watching the equestrian events and being hurled around on supersonic rides, inspecting the cakes and flowers, and eating too many hot dogs, yes, people do take time out to look at your dogs. Once a year. Most of those people do not go to the dog shows where you exhibit your dogs.

We live in a commercial world. We compete with pet shops and puppy farms in the commercial world. We need to PROMOTE PUREBRED DOGS.

While promoting your dogs, you can also promote the fact that they are raised as part of the family, well socialised with other dogs since eyes were open, or whatever it is that you want to tell people ..... to set yourself well apart from those horrible conditions that are so often promoted by well meaning animal libbers.

What have the public seen most of in say the last 2 years on their television screens? Puppy farms and horrible conditions. RSPCA officers wading through some muck where animals are housed inappropriately.

Have the public seen a happy litter of pups romping on a suburban lawn? Have they seen a contented bitch with her pups, teaching them the things that only mothers can teach?

Have they seen the conditions that the stud dog sleeps in, in the lounge room, or sprawled across your bed?

Have they seen both the stud dog tearing up the dirt at lure coursing events, or hurtling through flyball activities?

In Australia the general public are unlikely to have seen any of those things on their telly .... some still have the belief that only bad news sells.

Balderdash!

Look what happens when a car company use a Jack Russell or a Border Collie or an ACD in their ads, or that paint company uses a gorgeous OES, or the Labrador pup unrolls yet another toilet roll.

Everyone in the room sighs ....... "aaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!" ..... and they all want a dog "just like that one!"

Good dogs are well promoted when they are selling somebody else's product!!!! Good dogs, when they are well promoted, sell the purebred dog world to people!

The internet is one of the best things that has happened to dog breeders, in terms of being able to promote the breeding of purebred dogs inexpensively, and yet sometimes I see people writing that they want the use of the internet banned !!!!!! What sort of loopy thinking is that? Mght as well say "ban the TV!"

TV can be used for good stuff as well as bad, and likewise the internet can also.

Good breeders don't need a shop front in a Westfield complex, but make no mistake, a lot of people walk past those places and can be easily convinced that they should step inside to see the puppies ..... GUILTY! :p

The internet is the most obvious PROMOTION tool that we have! The world is just beyond the keyboard!

BUT, do we need different metatags out there, to get to those PET buyers FIRST? ..... Before they stop off at Westfield?

I believe that any dog breeder putting together a website needs to think very carefully about the pet buyers market and ensure that the right words are in those metatags.

Be a pet buyer for a few minutes ..... what words come into your head as you are thinking that you might add a puppy to your household?

Pup .... puppy .... cute .... pet .... cheeky .....?

Purebred and healthy might be there somewhere with a few buyers too, but not the majority I suspect. "Well bred " maybe.

Promotion works well when it is used, and when it is targeted to the people you need.

Souff

[WoofnHoof]

Very true Souff we live in a world where anything will sell if you market it right, and social attitudes and perceptions can be moulded if you know how to do it. I personally would love to see a tv series on dogs at work and play, each show could focus on a sport or working dog setting and show how a well trained, well bred dog can strut it's stuff! ;) I wonder if the MDBA or someone could approach tv stations/producers and pitch something like this? Each show could start with the puppies and hook the viewers in, then talk about and illustrate how they are raised to optimise their breed specific traits, then go through the training and preparation and finally the finished product at the end