Could This Be An Answer?

[Cosmolo]

I had a thought the other day regarding the pet shop issue. One of the big problems is that puppy buyers often do not know where their puppies come from. What do you think would happen if every puppy, from every possible source had to have its origin identified to the buyer?

The form would need to be signed by the buyer to ensure they had seen it and would have broad category options followed by actual identification of the breeders property name or prefix.

Would this be a good way to ensure all buyers know where their pups come from and can then make educated choices?

[Keira&Phoenix]

Maybe. But in the end most people live with the attitude "ignorance is bliss" if they do not witness the suffering of puppy farms or a similar operation first hand then it makes no difference to them.

Buying pets from pet stores should be illegal because people still impulse buy from them which is another major issue on top of BYB's and puppy mills.

[wuffles]

I think it would certainly be a good start!

I do think a lot of people still won't care though, and there are a lot of people who think that if a place has a nice name then they're good breeders (and some puppy farms certainly have cutesy business names).

[~Anne~]

I think it is good idea, however, if the breeding establishment is listed as "Sun Valley Kennels" how does the buyer know that thi smeans this is a farmer who keeps his dogs in appalling conditions?

[westielover]

I think it's a good idee Cosmolo.

Interestly, I met a girl at dog trainign who works in a pet store which sells live animals (quote "only 2 or 3 of each type of animal' unquote) and when I asked her where the puppies are purchased from - she replied "from breeders'. I said don't you mean puppy farms. She refused to beleive that the puppies came from puppy farms and insisted they came from reputable breeders!!!

It made me wonder if the staff who work in pets shops don't actually realise where their puppies come from??? Perhaps management keep it secret from the staff??

[Annie99]

- she replied "from breeders'. I said don't you mean puppy farms. She refused to beleive that the puppies came from puppy farms and insisted they came from reputable breeders!!!

I have rung heaps of PP's and the staff always say "breeders".

The last one I rang she breeders and I said "what breeders?" and she said she could not tell me because of "breeder discretion"

I think it is great that people are trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem but I do agree with previous poster who said that some people do not care about the conditions of the mothers as long as they end up with a cute pup. It is a selfish society we live in and the attitude makes me sick.

[Isabel964]

I suspect that some pet shops get puppies from backyard breeders. So these are not puppy farms. They are dog lovers that feel a need to breed their pet(s) - but don't go into it like registered breeders do, and are likely not as educated about breeding and all else related to breeding as registered breeders are. Rightly or wrongly, these are loving homes, with loving people that really mean well.

[Cosmolo]

I agree that some people don't care where their pups come from. BUT i know personally of many many people who do genuinely care but they just didn't know.

I also tend to think many of those who don't care are more likely to get the cheap dog from the paper rather than the pet shops $800+

I agree sky but having BYB and ANKC breeders down as 2 different options would again let people know that there are 2 different types of breeders in that way.

In my perfect world i would accompany this ID sheet with non emotional definitions about what each category means AND the importance of neurological stimulation and early development. If the pet shops and puppy farms are so certain that their pups are being raised so well, there shouldn't be any problem providing such information to buyers.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Cosmolo

[mokhahouse]

In my situation with Mokha this would have been a good thing to have. I tried to find out where he came from to let the person who bred him know of his joint problems but PP refused to give me any info and were not helpful at all. They simply did not respond to my phone messages and the manager was always out. At least I could have gone straight to the source of the problem.

While I will never buy another dog from a petstore maybe this would be a little step in the right direction.

[mita]

This has come up on DOL before. Especially in mentioning the UK law about the breeding & sale of puppies and kittens. They put the two together. So that both consumer protection & animal welfare go together.

Any puppy bred for later sale, is required to have a disk with an identifying number which can track the puppy from origin & then all along its life line (no reason that couldn't be combined with microchip). Places breeding & selling puppies must be licensed and decent conditions & treatment required. There are penalties for failing to comply.

Edited December 31, 2010 by mita

[Agility Dogs]

In my situation with Mokha this would have been a good thing to have. I tried to find out where he came from to let the person who bred him know of his joint problems but PP refused to give me any info and were not helpful at all. They simply did not respond to my phone messages and the manager was always out. At least I could have gone straight to the source of the problem.

While I will never buy another dog from a petstore maybe this would be a little step in the right direction.

I agree.

I would love to know where my pet shop dogs come from - for different reasons.

I think the biggest thing this would do is at least make the people breeding the dogs responsible for what they breed.

The downside I can see is the prospect of vigilante action against people with less than ideal, but still legal, breeding practices.

[Animal Lover]

In my situation with Mokha this would have been a good thing to have. I tried to find out where he came from to let the person who bred him know of his joint problems but PP refused to give me any info and were not helpful at all. They simply did not respond to my phone messages and the manager was always out. At least I could have gone straight to the source of the problem.

While I will never buy another dog from a petstore maybe this would be a little step in the right direction.

I agree.

I would love to know where my pet shop dogs come from - for different reasons.

I think the biggest thing this would do is at least make the people breeding the dogs responsible for what they breed.

The downside I can see is the prospect of vigilante action against people with less than ideal, but still legal, breeding practices.

Yeah great Idea, but I still think Impulse buying will happen, and people won't be put off by the name of the place.

I happened to have friend that I know works at the pet store, she really believes her petstore doesn't support puppy farms, however her store has a sign up saying we do not support puppy farms- I seen this sign in other petshop that also I know are puppy farms supporters, However my friends store they have cats, dogs, birds, reptiles etc, so actually very obvious that her store does sell puppy/kittens from puppy farms, obviously the signage is there to betray customers and mislead them.apparently they cannot disclose were they came from due to privacy laws down here.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Animal Lover

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think it would possibly put some people off but I have also found that many simply don't care - they've got what they want and that's all they care about.

It's also requiring a guarantee of honesty from both the petshop and supplier and I don't know if that's going to be in either of their best interests.

There is also an ignorance out there as to what a proper breeder constitutes, I'm coming across that fairly often at the moment. Have had more than one person insist that they got their dog from a breeder and that was because it was a purebred Ridgie crossed with a purebred Mastiff.

Yesterday I was talking to a couple at my vets, I liked the look of one of their dogs (of mixed heritage) and they said they'd got her from a "breeder" - I asked what breeds had gone into the mix - it was a labrador bred with a mini poodle. Then they proudly told me they'd returned to the same "breeder" for their second dog - also a bitza. This dog was a small "Groodle" and the breeder had achieved this by mating a GR with a mini poodle. Oh God.

Edited December 31, 2010 by dogmad

[westielover]

In my situation with Mokha this would have been a good thing to have. I tried to find out where he came from to let the person who bred him know of his joint problems but PP refused to give me any info and were not helpful at all. They simply did not respond to my phone messages and the manager was always out. At least I could have gone straight to the source of the problem.

While I will never buy another dog from a petstore maybe this would be a little step in the right direction.

I'm always running into people who have acquired their cute little crossbreeds from pet shops and have always started conversations with them. Interestingly, 9 out of 10 people seem to find that the dog seems to end up with some sort of problem - either knee or hip problems or the dog shedding when it's not supposed to etc etc. Most of these people have forked out thousands of dollars for knee/hip operations. It's great that the owners care so much about their pet shop dogs to go ahead with the operations & associated expenses, but they always end up saying they will never purchase from a pet shop again.

I guess what I am saying is 'once bitten, twice shy'. However, there are so many people who will have that first puppy purchase from the pet store. There are also people who feel sorry for pets in pet shop and will buy them to 'save' them. To me it's incredible that people will spend so much money on a puppy that's obviously not pure and comes from unknown origins.

I was told the other day that my dog was a 'sprocker' - I had always wondered what breeds were in my spaniel cross - I had always suspected there is springer spaniel/cocker or brittany in the mix but I was never really sure. I went home and googled 'sprocker' and to my dismay found that's it a 'breed' of dog bred in the UK. Well at least I now know exactly which breeds make up my cross breed. At least I didn't pay thousands of dollars for my cross breed .... instead I took him on from the pound ..... where more and more of these cute cross breeds are turning up!!!

I wish for the perfect world where BYB's & puppy farms didn't exist but as long as $$$$$ are being made from cross breed puppy sales, it's a very difficult problem to extinguish.

It's a viscious circle

You would think that in today's world where pets are so well looked after & spoiled - pet shops could make money without selling live animals!!!!

[Agility Dogs]

In my situation with Mokha this would have been a good thing to have. I tried to find out where he came from to let the person who bred him know of his joint problems but PP refused to give me any info and were not helpful at all. They simply did not respond to my phone messages and the manager was always out. At least I could have gone straight to the source of the problem.

While I will never buy another dog from a petstore maybe this would be a little step in the right direction.

I agree.

I would love to know where my pet shop dogs come from - for different reasons.

I think the biggest thing this would do is at least make the people breeding the dogs responsible for what they breed.

The downside I can see is the prospect of vigilante action against people with less than ideal, but still legal, breeding practices.

Yeah great Idea, but I still think Impulse buying will happen, and people won't be put off by the name of the place.

I happened to have friend that I know works at the pet store, she really believes her petstore doesn't support puppy farms, however her store has a sign up saying we do not support puppy farms- I seen this sign in other petshop that also I know are puppy farms supporters, However my friends store they have cats, dogs, birds, reptiles etc, so actually very obvious that her store does sell puppy/kittens from puppy farms, obviously the signage is there to betray customers and mislead them.apparently they cannot disclose were they came from due to privacy laws down here.

The scariest thing IMO is that we will start to see more and more second and third generation crosses like this - imagine the hybrid vigour that will be in the gene pool by then!

[Isabel964]

I agree that alot of people are oblivious to breeders. At work I have heard of people thinking of buying a cat or dog from a pet shop, and I ask them why they don't go to a breeder. Most of the time people never thought of it. I tell them they can see the parents, speak to the breeder know what they are getting - and often pay the same or less than at a pet store for a dog with proper breeding. People just don't know.

[Whippetsmum]

Maybe Petshops should be banned from making up breeds, and not make any claims unless they have the paperwork to prove the breed, eg: Labrador. Calling a mutt a name like a Moodle (Maltese x Poodle for example) gives a false impression to the idiot shopper, it doesn't give any real information to the purchaser. Out of interest sake, do those pups come with a receipt listing the "breed"? I do think the Petshops should be made to prove what the dog is if they want to make claims. Afterall, would you buy a large box like appliance that was possibly a fridge freezer, but weren't actually sure? Wait a couple of months then find out it wasn't "as described", it's more of a freezer than a fridge, and a bit too big for your kitchen? I wonder if a consumer action group working with animal welfare could come up with something to "protect the buyer", maybe some truth in labelling consumer law would apply? (hopefully somehow the process, would reduce demand and then maybe there would be fewer furry victims.

Edit for spelling

Edited December 31, 2010 by Whippetsmum

[Sheridan]

If breeders are to be identified, perhaps there should be a code to identify what type of breeder: R = registered, B = backyard, C = commercial.

[Bjelkier]

Maybe. But in the end most people live with the attitude "ignorance is bliss" if they do not witness the suffering of puppy farms or a similar operation first hand then it makes no difference to them.

Buying pets from pet stores should be illegal because people still impulse buy from them which is another major issue on top of BYB's and puppy mills.

This is very true.

I have some friends (i use the term rather loosely now....) who really wanted a puppy.

I gave them the puppy farm talk, the names and numbers of various breeders, the contact info for rescues in their area and because they didn't want to wait they got a puppy from a frigging pet store!

Oh but apparently it was ok becuase the puppy only came in that day....they didn't believe me when I told them that this wasn't the issue, it's the conditions the parents are kept in, the lack of health testing is......

They got another Petstore puppy 2 months later

:D

[Loving my Oldies]

Cosmolo, that might sound okay, but it is only tinkering at the edges.

The only way to start to solve the problem of puppy (and kitten) farming and backyard breeding is to stop their easy access to pet shops. Over the years, asking a mild question here and there, I have always been given the same sort of answer: Oh we know where all our puppies come from, we know the breeders, they are lovely lovely people, they love their dogs, the dogs are brought up in their home, yada yada yada :D .

When it is illegal to sell puppies and kittens in pet shops, or from car boots, or at markets, there will be another avenue these ghastly places will pursue and then that will have to be dealt with, but hopefully without this easy access, people will get out of the business.

The cruel, greedy and unscrupulous will always be amongst us and it is up to those who care to keep fighting.