Dogs Who Soil Their Bedding

[The Ark]

We are having problems with two of our dogs who think it is perfectly normal behaviour to poo and wee on their beds. Our big dogs have their beds set up in our dog trailer at night (in our big shed) so that we don't have barking issues at night. They all love going to bed and happily jump in. They are usually not locked up until around 10.30-11 o'clock at night, and let out by 6.30am. Two of the dogs share a berth, which is big enough for them both to stretch out in, but not really so big that they can get away from any mess they make (which I thought was the idea to stop them messing).

I got up this morning to let them out and was greeted by an enormous poo right in the middle of the bedding. One dog then jumped out and whacked his tail up my leg, leaving a lovely smear all over me. I then had to drag the trailer out and hose the whole thing out.

Even if these dogs are in a dog run at night they will often choose to wee or poo on their trampoline beds rather than on the cement (and again, it's not like they are locked up for an excessive amount of time). They are 12 months old, so well and truly old enough to hang on, surely!

I am aware that it is something we have done with their training, because we bred and raised these guys. They were whelped on fleece/vet bed, surrounded by newspaper so that (we hoped) they would learn to use the paper. I have always understood that most dogs would rather die than soil their sleeping area, so I just don't know why they feel it's okay.

Can anyone advise how we might best tackle remedial crate training with dogs this age?

[sas]

How are the other dogs in the litter with the toileting behaviour?

[persephone]

frustrating,I'm sure.

Just a couple of thoughts.....

if the dog's tail is smearing poo on you.. faeces are too loose - perhaps their diet is playing a part in not helping them hang on ? perhaps there is something which could change there?

What happens if these two are kennelled seperately?

perhaps ,being two, they play and stay awake, thus needing to toilet more often?

where is the normal toileting done? on grass/concrete/sand/stones/artificial turf?

you said they had paper as a toileting substrate as puppies. Did they use it in preference?

Edited December 29, 2010 by persephone

[Greytmate]

Changing timing of meals may help. Changing from evening to morning meal has solved this problem for a couple of people that have asked me about it.

[dancinbcs]

I was also going to say feeding times. Adult dogs need to eliminate within an hour after eating and then again 9-12 hours later. So they need time outside after their dinner to relieve themselves then will need to go again 9-12 hours later, so if you feed late afternoon or early evening you are setting them up to fail. Try feeding one hour before you bed them down and give them plenty of time to toilet before bed.

Also, you mention paper training but have they actually been trained to go outside on grass. You need to actively train puppies to toilet on grass from as young as possible, with lots of praise for getting it right. I usually start at about 3-4 weeks so they are almost trained by 8 weeks. They need to know that they should only toilet outdoors and teaching that grass is where to go, is the easiest way to make this connection. Paper training actually teaches them to go indoors.

I too would separating them into different trailer bays (or preferably completely different sleeping areas) so they sleep and don't play. With siblings they should actually be separated as much as possible and just be allowed play times so they get to develop individual personalities and don't become too dependant on one another.

[wuffles]

How are the other dogs in the litter with the toileting behaviour?

I have their litter sister and she has been fully toilet trained since 14 weeks... sometimes she is crated at night and sometimes she has run of the house but we have never had an accident

[Chipps]

Hi The Ark.

Sounds like a messy situation & I have little to offer in the way of help.

When I worked at the pound, the dogs were containd in their pens all night. It was always a lottery the next morning.

Most would poo on the concrete, but some would poo on the beds, often resulting in a sticky mess in the pen & on the dog/s. Some would wait till their turn at the grass run (Poor little things just kept hanging on for ages, we always tried to let them out first, but was not always possible).

Perhaps the following might give some clues.

1. What sex are they?
   
2. When did it start & what did you change before this?
   
3. How long has it been happening?
   
4. Do they urinate on the bed?
   
5. Are they marking surroundings with urine?
   
6. Are both dogs doing it?
   
7. Are the stools normal, or very moist?
   
8. Have you considered adding the third dog into the mix......Perhaps it can help guide their habits?
   

Changing the feeding time does seem a very good start.

I recommend separating & see how it goes.

Good luck

Chipps

[The Ark]

Thank you everyone.

As Wuffles mentioned, she has the girl pup and hasn't had any trouble. These two are boys, and I have had the same problem whether they are in the same or separate bays, and also when I've tried crating them separately instead. Stools aren't overly runny - they look moist but formed. I think the reason it was on one of the boys' tails this morning was that he had just sat in it.

They are usually only fed in the mornings, so I have definitely avoided evening/night feeds for this very reason - however because I ran out of their dog food the day before yesterday they just had meaty bones yesterday morning and then their kibble mid-afternoon so perhaps this one-off might have been due to the afternoon feed. It just seems that on other occasions the same thing happens when they only have morning feeds.

They did use the paper as puppies, but I understand what you are saying about teaching them to toilet on grass as early as possible. That makes a lot of sense. All of their normal toileting now is outside on grass/dirt.

1. What sex are they? Both male (one desexed, one entire)

2. When did it start & what did you change before this? (They've been like it since I can remember - not every night, and not so much lately)

3. How long has it been happening? (See above)

4. Do they urinate on the bed? (They do if they need to go - it is a proper wee, not just marking)

5. Are they marking surroundings with urine? (The entire dog does mark around the yard, but not in the trailer)

6. Are both dogs doing it? (Yes)

7. Are the stools normal, or very moist? (Soft to normal, not runny)

8. Have you considered adding the third dog into the mix......Perhaps it can help guide their habits? (The third dog is a maremma, so it would be a bit squishy in there - probably no room to poo though!)

So maybe I should put this particular incident down to the afternoon meal yesterday, and make note to avoid feeding them after lunch at all to see if this makes a difference. I will also try separating them again - perhaps the playing/staying awake does make them more likely to need to toilet.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[*Oscar*]

My 7 month old still does this occasionaly, both wee and poo. I have tried washing the bedding as well as buying new bedding at the advice of my local vet. He doesnt even wait till night time and his alone he will do it in the lounge room when the back door is open He hasnt done it in about 3 weeks at this stage is longest his gone.

Will be interested in seeing other peoples ideas.

[sas]

How are the other dogs in the litter with the toileting behaviour?

I have their litter sister and she has been fully toilet trained since 14 weeks... sometimes she is crated at night and sometimes she has run of the house but we have never had an accident

Doesn't sound like a training problem then?

How about feeding them much earlier i.e. around 4pm if possible, that way they'd toilet before bed?