How Do You Leave Them Behind

[rubiton]

BUt youd expect people with cats to have the carry cage things for them and expect people with dogs to have leads. And with all the stories that came out of the US where people went back by dodging official closures you'd think they would have learnt.

What about the Vic bushfires? obviously those who got out took their animals with them (unless they got away from the owners somehow) to the emergency centres - didnt seem to be too many problems there.

I think there was 3 or so days where all roads in were closed and people couldn't access their pets or horses. It just wasn't safe. I could be wrong but that's my recollection. Particularly if you were in the Kinglake area and you were on the hill, you stayed, if you'd left you could only go to containment lines until the wristband id system was up and running.

Not talking about livestock and those animals that were left - plenty of people took their animals with them when they got out and went to the emergency centres and there was no problem.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I would hope to evacuate by car...in the event of any emergency situation.

I would NOT leave my dogs home to fend for themselves as this amounts to abandoning them and I will not do that under any circumstances.

IMO there are local government assets that should be used for emergencies where people are forced to evacuate, leaving their pets behind. That includes shelter facilities, vehicles, crates, vet assistance, and so on. And what really is the problem with people evacuating who bring crates for their dogs or cats? Surely in this day and age we can and must accept pets in public shelters as long as the pets can be safely and adequately contained for the duration of the emergency?

I have airline crates for Ruby and Molly, but not yet for Lilly - I do have a giant folding metal crate in which all three could be safely housed BUT it's heavy and I don't think it would fit in my car. Heck, I'd sleep with the dogs in my car for that matter.

This whole thing has me re-thinking my choice of vehicle as well. But I'm in position to replace it with something more suitable and that won't change any time soon.

[dancinbcs]

It would be the hardest decision to have to make & not one that i could say yes or no without weighing up the factors at that moment BUT i wouldn't take up rescue resources if human life was still at risk just for my animals because i couldn't live with someone dying just because i insisted the animals went over them.

Also reality is not many dogs are helicopter trained to sit safely & if i was to put my 4 big boys on that would equate to 3 adults weight wise

Fair enough if there is not time to get everyone out safely as happens with a sudden fire but these towns had many hours advance notice to evacuate them before anyone's life was anywhere near being in danger. With multiple big dogs there is the weight problem but what possible reason could there be for not letting the older lady I saw interviewed, take one little dog with her?

[Staff'n'Toller]

BUt youd expect people with cats to have the carry cage things for them and expect people with dogs to have leads. And with all the stories that came out of the US where people went back by dodging official closures you'd think they would have learnt.

What about the Vic bushfires? obviously those who got out took their animals with them (unless they got away from the owners somehow) to the emergency centres - didnt seem to be too many problems there.

I think there was 3 or so days where all roads in were closed and people couldn't access their pets or horses. It just wasn't safe. I could be wrong but that's my recollection. Particularly if you were in the Kinglake area and you were on the hill, you stayed, if you'd left you could only go to containment lines until the wristband id system was up and running.

Not talking about livestock and those animals that were left - plenty of people took their animals with them when they got out and went to the emergency centres and there was no problem.

Were animals allowed indoors in places like the Whittlesea centre?

[fifi]

Not without my animals, and I'd be leaving them behind over my dead body.

when we had fires over the back range here last year, both cars had crates packed, Dogs in easy access area, Cats in cat carry cages, cars packed with dog & cat food, water drums, leads, bowls, mobile phones with car chargers ect. And we were ready to go early, before it became an urgen evac.

Locals with horses trucked them out in the very early stages of the threat, and luckily the fires went down the range and not towards our village.

Sorry, no one would separate me from my family of animals.

fifi

[ozjen]

While I understand that resources are limited and humans have to come first, I could not leave my animals behind. There would be no point in saving me if I left them behind and something happened to them as I would not be able to live with myself. It would be like someone saying to me well heres a liferaft to save yourself but you have to throw your kids overboard first.

At the same time I would not expect one of my pets to take the place of a human if rescue options were limited, but I would expect rescuers to respect my wish to stay with my animals.

[dancinbcs]

BUt youd expect people with cats to have the carry cage things for them and expect people with dogs to have leads. And with all the stories that came out of the US where people went back by dodging official closures you'd think they would have learnt.

What about the Vic bushfires? obviously those who got out took their animals with them (unless they got away from the owners somehow) to the emergency centres - didnt seem to be too many problems there.

I think there was 3 or so days where all roads in were closed and people couldn't access their pets or horses. It just wasn't safe. I could be wrong but that's my recollection. Particularly if you were in the Kinglake area and you were on the hill, you stayed, if you'd left you could only go to containment lines until the wristband id system was up and running.

Not talking about livestock and those animals that were left - plenty of people took their animals with them when they got out and went to the emergency centres and there was no problem.

Were animals allowed indoors in places like the Whittlesea centre?

The animals were taken out with the owners then placed in kennels, shelters and with foster families if the owners didn't have anywhere they could be with them. I remember the call for kennels in safe areas to take as many as possible and the appeal for people to foster them until the owners could take them back. But at least they got them out of the danger area with the owners. They don't need to have in people shelters but they do need to get them out of a flood the same as they did with the fires.

[Malamum]

If I had to leave my dogs behind and they didn't survive then I think it would haunt me for the rest of my life. I've actually had nightmares about this very thing before and woken up feeling physically sick.

It will never flood where we live but bushfires are a possibility.

I would always be prepared to leave very early if there was any inkling of evacuation being necessary.

I really feel for those with horses in situations like this as they are so much harder to mobilise.

A girl I used to work with lives in Kinglake and she has three horses with only 1 double float. She apparantley had a fairly new boyfriend at the house with her who had never driven with a float before. Her plan was for him to take two horses on the float and for her to ride the third out.

I believe they had two ways out but only one was an option with the float. The boyfriend convinced her to leave the horses behind and they went the way they could go without the float. If they had gone the other way with the float they very likely would have died. The horses survived.

It gives me goosebumps just thinking about her being put in that position.

[dogbesotted]

dancinbcs wrote:

"With multiple big dogs there is the weight problem but what possible reason could there be for not letting the older lady I saw interviewed, take one little dog with her?

"

then my question is what makes that little old ladies small dogs life more valuable than my large white dogs????

the moral of the story is to include your pets in your evacuation plan and at least get them out earlier rather than later. even if it means moving your pets somewhere safe and you returning

h

[Mila's Mum]

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/calls-incl...n-plans-3375389

Including pets in Civil Defence emergency planning could make for safer and faster evacuations of people, according to a new report.

The report being released on Monday shows more than half of pet owners would refuse to evacuate without their pets.

Carolyn Press-Mckenzie takes pet owning very seriously.

"Our animals mean everything to us. They're just valued important family members," she says.

As well as her four dogs and five cats she runs an animal shelter filled with all sorts of creatures, and in an emergency, there is no way she would leave home without them.

"To us it would be like leaving a family member behind. It just isn't an option," she says.

But that is exactly what she would have to do if evacuated by Civil Defence .

Bob Kerridge from the SPCA says much more serious planning with Civil Defence needs to be done to include animals.

The SPCA says when planning for an emergency pet owners should have a lead for every dog a carry case for every cat, enough pet food and a way to identify their animal.

Fifty-thousand animals had to be left behind when people abandoned their homes after hurricane Katrina in the United States and although a massive rescue operation was later attempted, many died.

That caused an outcry and a law was passed to ensure pets were included in evacuation plans.

An emergency specialist says New Zealand needs to do the same.

Emergency Management Consultant Steve Glassey says about 60% of pet owners are likely to fail to evacuate unless they can take their pets.

"With most households owning pets, that's a lot of people that are not evacuating," Glassey says.

Press-Mckenzie says it is important that it is understood that animals are important to people and they are part of their emotional well being.

The government is expecting a report on animal emergency management but will not change the law.

Some Civil Defence areas are including pets in their plans but it's largely up to individual owners to make sure their loved ones are safe.

[Teebs]

the moral of the story is to include your pets in your evacuation plan and at least get them out earlier rather than later. even if it means moving your pets somewhere safe and you returning

h

I had a huge grass fire behind me last year, while the chances of it getting to me were slim (it did burn my neighbours fence down, but was moving in the other direction) I had packed the animals up and left. Neighbour said i was silly to do so, but I rather be safe than sorry. Had the wind changed, or someone had something flammable against the fence...who knows what could have happened?

I have 3 cat crates in the room near the front door, one dog crate set up at all times, and one folded up - but easy to get to. and I know they all fit in my car, and also know what way to put them to fit them (if you have a smaller car and think things fit - go and try it first, it may not be as easy as you think!), so i rather pack up and leave and the first sign of danger. I also have all my important documents in the one spot, so if i do have to get out, i know what to grab, if i have time.

[Mila's Mum]

And this one - emphasis is mine

http://news.csu.edu.au/director/latestnews...emplate=release

Disaster emergency management research by a Charles Sturt University (CSU) postgraduate student in New Zealand has found that 99 per cent of pet owners identified pets as part of their family, and that in an emergency, 56 per cent of owners would refuse to evacuate without their pets.

Mr Steve Glassey, a distance education student in the Master of Emergency Management course at the CSU Australian Graduate School of Policing in Australia says his report, Recommendations to enhance companion animal emergency management in New Zealand, which was presented at the 9th Annual Emergency Management Conference in Wellington on Monday 22 February, contains 60 recommendations that are relevant to pet owners and local and national government departments and agencies everywhere.

“It is a serious concern that nearly 60 per cent of respondents said they would refuse to evacuate during an emergency unless they could take their pet, and, if forced to abandon their pet, they would return later to rescue them regardless of directions from the emergency services,” Mr Glassey said.

“My research shows that pets are part of the family, and it is not okay to leave them behind when evacuating. It’s important, therefore, to change current emergency management arrangements that do not provide for adequate protection of pets during disasters.”

Mr Glassey’s research drew on the experience of residents of New Orleans in the United States (US) when, as the city was pounded by Hurricane Katrina in 2005, the evacuation of the city created the largest animal rescue operation in US history. While over 15,000 pets were rescued, 80 to 90 per cent of pets were left behind, and most of these died.

“In view of this disaster, specific US legislation was passed the following year to require state and local emergency management agencies to ensure pets and service animals were included in disaster and evacuation plans. In contrast, no such requirements exist in New Zealand or Australia.

“We have a great opportunity to take the lessons of Hurricane Katrina and put systems in place to protect pets before a disaster strikes. Without doubt, this research indicates that protecting pets results in protecting people,” Mr Glassey said.

Mr Glassey says a national working group has been established in New Zealand to develop guidelines for managing pets during disasters, and further funding and resources are needed to bring them up to international best practice.

And here's the report

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/edu/docs/G...M%20in%20NZ.pdf

Edited December 29, 2010 by Mila's Mum

[dancinbcs]

dancinbcs wrote:

"With multiple big dogs there is the weight problem but what possible reason could there be for not letting the older lady I saw interviewed, take one little dog with her?

"

then my question is what makes that little old ladies small dogs life more valuable than my large white dogs????

the moral of the story is to include your pets in your evacuation plan and at least get them out earlier rather than later. even if it means moving your pets somewhere safe and you returning

The little dog's life is no more valuable than that of a big dog but you pointed out that you would not let your dogs take the place of a person who's life was in danger. A little dog does not take the place of a person, a big dog does, weight and space wise.

[Sam the man]

The last sentence of an article in today's Morning Bulletin Re: the evacuation from Theodore "The management group is working with the RSPCA to evacuate pets."

From the Morning Bulletin website

http://www.centraltelegraph.com.au/story/2...tions-theodore/

I have copied out a section of the above story.

Theodore deserted, eyes on Taroom

UPDATE 5PM: WHILE the clean up has begun in towns like Jambin and Wowan where the waters have receded, Taroom and Theodore remain isolated and under threat of even more water.

Theodore residents are unlikely to get back in to see the devastation the flood caused to their homes for at least five days, with the Dawson River yet to peak upstream at Taroom.

With the last of the residents evacuated this morning, people’s animals were air lifted out.

C Vaughn Becker was air lifted out last night and spoke from the mine camp at Moura, where he said people were being well cared for.

He said only a police presence would be left in Theodore.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Sam the man

[bianca.a]

I would not leave if I couldn't take my animals either. I have Molly's crate and the cats cage by the front door ready to go if the need arose. I also have an emergency kit with food and water for all three of them too.

Does anyone know if there is anywhere to donate items (animal food/bowls/clothing etc) for the flood victims?

[dancinbcs]

The last sentence of an article in today's Morning Bulletin Re: the evacuation from Theodore "The management group is working with the RSPCA to evacuate pets."

From the Morning Bulletin website

http://www.centraltelegraph.com.au/story/2...tions-theodore/

I have copied out a section of the above story.

Theodore deserted, eyes on Taroom

UPDATE 5PM: WHILE the clean up has begun in towns like Jambin and Wowan where the waters have receded, Taroom and Theodore remain isolated and under threat of even more water.

Theodore residents are unlikely to get back in to see the devastation the flood caused to their homes for at least five days, with the Dawson River yet to peak upstream at Taroom.

With the last of the residents evacuated this morning, people’s animals were air lifted out.

C Vaughn Becker was air lifted out last night and spoke from the mine camp at Moura, where he said people were being well cared for.

He said only a police presence would be left in Theodore.

Glad they are making some effort now but how will they know if they have them all without the residents there to secure their pets. I'm sure many of the pets will be so terrified that they will not be able to catch them without the owner present. Surely it would have made more sense to have taken them out with the owners. Not to mention the stress they caused to these people having them leave without their pets.

[Dogsfevr]

Fair enough if there is not time to get everyone out safely as happens with a sudden fire but these towns had many hours advance notice to evacuate them before anyone's life was anywhere near being in danger. With multiple big dogs there is the weight problem but what possible reason could there be for not letting the older lady I saw interviewed, take one little dog with her?

But where do you draw the line ?

What if they said to you older lady can take her dog but yours has to stay??

Why should her dog been seen as more valuable than mine .

There alone you would end up with people going crazy about whose pets deserve to go & stay .

Who volunteers to stand there & say yes /no.

There will never be the right answer but in many cases people can plan in advance .

For instance this year there was a major fire early am ,we & many others offered to help evacuate a dog kennel at around 11am .they said no there fine ,then at 8 pm please can you help.one way road,dark & total madness.

Others helped but it was mad much harder by simply not getting the animals out earlier.

Many of these places where certainly overwhelmed by the quick water flow but also many have had the chance to be prepared .

We run boarding kennels.we have to be prepared & well planned

[Asalei]

The last sentence of an article in today's Morning Bulletin Re: the evacuation from Theodore "The management group is working with the RSPCA to evacuate pets."

From the Morning Bulletin website

http://www.centraltelegraph.com.au/story/2...tions-theodore/

I have copied out a section of the above story.

Theodore deserted, eyes on Taroom

UPDATE 5PM: WHILE the clean up has begun in towns like Jambin and Wowan where the waters have receded, Taroom and Theodore remain isolated and under threat of even more water.

Theodore residents are unlikely to get back in to see the devastation the flood caused to their homes for at least five days, with the Dawson River yet to peak upstream at Taroom.

With the last of the residents evacuated this morning, people’s animals were air lifted out.

C Vaughn Becker was air lifted out last night and spoke from the mine camp at Moura, where he said people were being well cared for.

He said only a police presence would be left in Theodore.

I was sure they said in the news article in Brisbane tonight on Channel 7 that the last people they were evacuating were the ones with pets becuase they wouldn't leave them. They showed two men carrying a pile of crates and the voice over said they were obtained from nearby Biloela. They showed the people putting a large lab x looking dog into a crate and carrying it to the helicopter. The lady they interviewed said she couldn't believe people could just get up and leave their pets. She wasn't going anywhere until they were allowed to be evacuated with them.

We would just chuck my girls in the back of the car and go.

Just devastating for the people involved.

[Malamum]

I would always have to leave early and get our dogs out just us and in our own car.

I could never get our male out on a chopper. He is crate trained but there is no way in hell the OH and I could carry him in crate. He is just too heavy and he would freak if it was strange men trying to do it.

[The Spotted Devil]

Even my chooks are written into my emergency plans