angelsun Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It is against the rules. End of story - they should be reported and dealt with accordingly. We recently had our 8 yr old desexed and I was very suprised when the vet told me that they did not have to tattoo her ear anymore. It used to be a requirement when a dog was desexed but that has obviously changed. I can just imagine how many people get their bitches desexed and show them just because who would know ?? There is no identifying mark now and it rely's on exhibitors honesty. Exactly....when I had my German Pinscher spayed in September, I got a call from the vet asking if I wanted the tattoo in her ear or not..I said no...no drama....then I got thinking....with the keyhole surgery used (1.5cm incision) and a healthy bitch that healed well...who would have ever known she was spayed? answer: I WOULD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The judge was joking weren't they????? Otherwise Almost as bad as the people, who when they saw that someone had a judging appointment coming up, suddenly sent that person friend requests on FB... Nope. Whether they were making a smart remark or not. There were other exhibitors and judges present, and IF they were only joking.. It was a sad joke to make. They did seem to log onto their I-phone while making the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 At least the person showing the desexed dog is not going to be breeding bad dogs under the glamour. This I do agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It is against the rules. End of story - they should be reported and dealt with accordingly. We recently had our 8 yr old desexed and I was very suprised when the vet told me that they did not have to tattoo her ear anymore. It used to be a requirement when a dog was desexed but that has obviously changed. I can just imagine how many people get their bitches desexed and show them just because who would know ?? There is no identifying mark now and it rely's on exhibitors honesty. Exactly....when I had my German Pinscher spayed in September, I got a call from the vet asking if I wanted the tattoo in her ear or not..I said no...no drama....then I got thinking....with the keyhole surgery used (1.5cm incision) and a healthy bitch that healed well...who would have ever known she was spayed? answer: I WOULD Brings to mind a slightly different example... I pulled my young English setter from the ring due to being diagnosed with HD. people asked me, if he showed few symptoms, why not continue to show him? Who would know? Answer - I WOULD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, showing a desexed dog in an entire class is wrong... report them, but you need to prove it is desexed. Yes I am all for desexed dogs being shown... as many have mentioned they are progeny and showing what the parents can produce as breeding stock, but it has to be done legally. Apparently (and please correct me if I am wrong) Dogs Qld will not have neuter classes as they believe showing is to showcase breeding stock and you cannot breed with desexed dogs ?? So where does that leave our thoughts of shows are for judging to standard? I use the showring to further my breeding program... it is not just about having a fun day out with my doggy. As much as I love showing, it is a serious thing and if I see something I really like, I check the dog's pedigree and what the parents and siblings are doing in the show ring. Unfortunately I am not able to just see in people's backyards. I would be happy to look at a desexed dogs in the ring, really should be more of them out there. And Im sorry, but most desexed coated breeds that I have seen have really crap coats! If I found out I was competing against a desexed dog illegally I would be pissed off. But what REALLY gets up my nose is the blatant and illegal use of massive amounts of product in coated breeds and being beaten by these pretty coats (and sometimes inferior dogs) while I stand there with my plain, what you see is what you get, dog... It seems alot of judges like to put up the best groomed dog... not the best dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My boy Blaze is desexed and his coat hasn't improved much at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Does it depend on when the dog/bitch is desexed in regards to having a crappy coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Does it depend on when the dog/bitch is desexed in regards to having a crappy coat? I'm not sure myself to be honest, but hopefully someone else might have an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Does it depend on when the dog/bitch is desexed in regards to having a crappy coat? I'm not sure myself to be honest, but hopefully someone else might have an idea. I thought in some breeds that it may be because the coat hasn't matured when they get desexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Does it depend on when the dog/bitch is desexed in regards to having a crappy coat? I'm not sure myself to be honest, but hopefully someone else might have an idea. I thought in some breeds that it may be because the coat hasn't matured when they get desexed. A possibility. Blaze was desexed at age 6, so his coat should have been the best it could be. It wasn't really great anyway, but it hasn't improved since desexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 So in terms of the breeding argument and breeding stock etc. What about a desexed male that has had semen taken and stored? There is nothing stopping this male from reproducing after being desexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 So in terms of the breeding argument and breeding stock etc. What about a desexed male that has had semen taken and stored? There is nothing stopping this male from reproducing after being desexed. Good one Megz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 So in terms of the breeding argument and breeding stock etc. What about a desexed male that has had semen taken and stored? There is nothing stopping this male from reproducing after being desexed. But the only way he can enter a ring again after desexing is if his nuggets have been replaced (against the rules) or entered as a neuter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracdog Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I may be wrong not having a desexed dog for years but the last one I did own the vet put a tattoo in its ear to id it as being desexed. If they still do it shouldn't the judge be able to see it when he/she is going over the dogs head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Vets no longer tattoo when they desex. When I had one of my dogs desexed I asked for it to be done and the vet had no problem doing it. I know a few vets have received complaints when they have tattooed dogs ears so alot don't do it for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I had a Rottie bitch spayed about 18 months or so ago and was surprised she wasn't tattooed. Really wish she was and so does Chicken, she was approached by someone a while ago wanting to breed with her and he was not convinced that she was spayed since she didn't have her ear tattooed. Would have been much easier just to show the tattoo and move on. I have read a few comments on DOL that some people would be furious if their vet tattooed their dogs ears but I just wish they were - even our rabbit got his ear done when he was desexed. Makes you wonder why owners refuse ear tattoos as ID for desexing, pet owners shouldn't be too concerned but anyone wanting to enter a dog show sure as hell would object... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 After having an unnecessary 'spay' operation done on a rescue that turned out to be already spayed (no scar was visible, she was youngish and she had no microchip, no tattoo and we had no history on her origins so at the time it was a logical thing to do - weren't we surprised!) I am 100% for tattooing. When any of mine are done I request it (the rescue had her ear tattooed when we found out she was already spayed too!) Back to basics though - whather you think desexed dogs should be shown or not, cheating the rules is cheating the rules. It is still gaining something by deception if you enter them when they are not eligible and pass them off as being eligible. And while it may be just a 'little' cheat - that is where things start. Embezzlers and fraudsters usually start out taking 'just a little', they get away with it and the frauds get bigger and bigger. The more you get away with, the more confidence you have that you can get away with even more. As for saying that it might be 'ok' for a new person to break the rules to allow them to start showing, what sort of lesson is that? You are giving them permission right from the beginning to cheat and telling them it is ok. You are telling them it is the 'done thing'. Do we really want that? If the rules are not good for new people we need to change them so they are. Not encourage new people to cheat and lie so they will take part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 So in terms of the breeding argument and breeding stock etc. What about a desexed male that has had semen taken and stored? There is nothing stopping this male from reproducing after being desexed. But the only way he can enter a ring again after desexing is if his nuggets have been replaced (against the rules) or entered as a neuter. I think you missed the point I was making. The arguments about a desexed dog not following the traditions of showing by being unable to reproduce is null and void when it comes to males who can have semen taken. If those arguing for reproduction being key to showing then they should also concede that a male with semen stored then desexed can still be bred from and therefore should be allowed to show. Obviously I understand rules don't allow that but for the above argument should they not be changed to reflect the wonders of semen storage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I use the showring to further my breeding program... it is not just about having a fun day out with my doggy. As much as I love showing, it is a serious thing and if I see something I really like, I check the dog's pedigree and what the parents and siblings are doing in the show ring. Unfortunately I am not able to just see in people's backyards. I would be happy to look at a desexed dogs in the ring, really should be more of them out there. And Im sorry, but most desexed coated breeds that I have seen have really crap coats! you said it much better than me If I found out I was competing against a desexed dog illegally I would be pissed off. But what REALLY gets up my nose is the blatant and illegal use of massive amounts of product in coated breeds and being beaten by these pretty coats (and sometimes inferior dogs) while I stand there with my plain, what you see is what you get, dog... It seems alot of judges like to put up the best groomed dog... not the best dog. I show coated and WYSIWYG breeds. You can always tell the quality of a judge if it goes over a coated breed properly... but you also can't judge a book by it's cover. A well groomed dog doesnt always mean product (of course if you can see the powder floating out of the dog that's a different story!), and it doesn't always mean covering something up either. I also do not think it's any harder showing a short coated breed to one with coat, if the judge knows what they are doing for the breeds they are judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 So in terms of the breeding argument and breeding stock etc. What about a desexed male that has had semen taken and stored? There is nothing stopping this male from reproducing after being desexed. But the only way he can enter a ring again after desexing is if his nuggets have been replaced (against the rules) or entered as a neuter. I think you missed the point I was making. The arguments about a desexed dog not following the traditions of showing by being unable to reproduce is null and void when it comes to males who can have semen taken. If those arguing for reproduction being key to showing then they should also concede that a male with semen stored then desexed can still be bred from and therefore should be allowed to show. Obviously I understand rules don't allow that but for the above argument should they not be changed to reflect the wonders of semen storage :laugh: the rules are there to be followed, if people with desexed dogs want to show they are the ones that should be pushing for changes, most people don't care, you would have to change every breed standard and don't think that will be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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