Dog Chasing Car Wheels

[Annie99]

Hi

A new client who I am doing pet sitting for has an 8 year old Border Collie who chases cars. It really bothers me and first time I had to drive out of the property I was worried about running over the dog. Now I park in a spot where the dog can't chase the car when I leave.

I grew up on large properties in outback NSW and remember a lot of dogs used to chase the car wheels.

I remember the "training" back then (30 years ago) was to tip a bucket of freezing cold water on the dog and some people got results doing this.

I was wondering if someone could suggest something so I could let the owner know.

Also "Cody" was a pound dog she got at about 3 years of age. Not sure what sort of life he had before that. Seems to a bit of "herding" training.

Any suggestions. Thank you.

[corvus]

Restrain the dog so it can't do it!

[fifi]

I'd be suggesting the dog be fenced off from any access to cars.

You wouldn't believe how many dogs are run over on farms because they are loose where the vehicles are. I heard of three more this week.

drives me bonkers - its so easy to fix !

fifi

[Agility Dogs]

I have an 8 m.o. BC who has been doing this since she was about 4 m.o. I am ALMOST at the point where I can/would now trust her not to chase if she were ever given the opportunity.

Basically while we've been on our walks I've worked to get her to understand that if she looks at me when she hears a car coming she gets a treat. If she heads off after the car she gets to correct herself on the end of the lead.

We are now at the point where about 90% of the time she will look at me - she is treated about 50% of the time with food and about 50% of the time with praise and a pat (initially a MUCH higher% of food). The 10% of the time she is looking at (not chasing) the car she gets a neutral or slightly negative verbal response.

Of course the quicker way to achieve the same thing is to correct any chasing behaviour either with a lead/corection collar or voice. I trained my older two dogs like that and only took a week or so to get it sorted. I've found that by being a bit more positive I like the outcome more than by using correction. 3/3 dogs don't chase cars, but the youngest is much more focussed on me rather than just behaving to avoid a correction.

I think if I were on a farm where it was essential that the dog could work around machinery/cars then I would have corrected from the word go, but I have the luxury of choice on this one.

ETA - she is never off lead or out from behind a fence where there is even a remote chance that she could chase a car.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Agility Dogs

[Nekhbet]

professional trainer and an e-collar. That dog has to learn that wheels are in no way a prey turn on.

As for fence or tether - alll that does is create frustration. The day the dog finally gets to the wheels it will be dead, usually blinded by higher drive.

[Annie99]

Thanks to last two replies.

I think I will have a big talk to the owner about this.

When I went and met the dog, she held him to stop chasing.

Then when I was leaving after first visit dog was chasing car. it was very very bad. I was so scared I was going to run over him. Now I park outside of "zap" area.

He has one of those electric collars to keep him in a certain area. He has a large area. Before she got the collar he used to go wandering all over the place.

From time to time I see things that are problematic and I try and rectify when I can.

I will point out that this behaviour is potentially fatal for the dog.

I think the professional trainer and e-collar will work for this client. I would hate to see the dog hurt or killed.

[Nekhbet]

people can say what they want but valuable animals by professionals are proofed with e-collars. Its probably the only thing that will really get the job done and make a permanent impression on the dog that cars should not even be considered as a prey item.

[persephone]

Sounds as if the dog's owner needs to learn a bit more about her dog and why it is doing these things .Good for you in trying to help!

[Annie99]

Sounds as if the dog's owner needs to learn a bit more about her dog and why it is doing these things .Good for you in trying to help!

Honestly, you would be surprised how many people have animals but are so incredibly ignorant of their needs or how to fix behaviours.

This is a really lovely English lady. I am sure she will be receptive to what I suggest for her Border Collie

Some people infuriate me with the way they "look after" or care for their animals.

EG - one client had a black fluffy kitten. She complained to me that the kitten was pooing and weeing all over the house.

So where was the kitty litter??? and where was the kitten fed???

In the laundry. Now this woman had 3 young kids. The washing machine and dryer were often used and the laundry was a thoughfare to the back yard.

So I tried to explain in a note I left her that while I looked after the kitten and put the kitty litter in a QUIET place - there were NO PROBLEMS. Kitty used the litter tray!!!

It pisses me off no end when stupid people with no common sense blame their animals for POOR decisions they make. GRRRRR

[Annie99]

people can say what they want but valuable animals by professionals are proofed with e-collars. Its probably the only thing that will really get the job done and make a permanent impression on the dog that cars should not even be considered as a prey item.

Sometimes you have to be (a little bit) cruel to be kind.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

My 14mo BC was a chronic chaser of cars, bikes, people running, anything moving. I started working with a clicker for her ((it seemed to be the only thing she could hear when she got worked up). She gets a click every time she looks at me. I started this because of the cars. She would fly off after every car that went past (she's almost always on lead as I'm not prepared to risk that she might chase anything). But I would also ask her to look at me when I could see a car approaching and then try to maintain her focus (often by holding a treat under her nose) while the car went past. I also have used the "leave it" command when she starts to stare down a car. On lead she is 99% fantastic with this now (it took me about a month to get her to 80%great), and I'm not prepared to risk what could happen off lead but the one day she did slip her collar she did the best receall I could have ever hoped for!

I also very much agree witht he others who have mentioned restraining/containing the dog. Better safe than sorry!!

[Staranais]

people can say what they want but valuable animals by professionals are proofed with e-collars. Its probably the only thing that will really get the job done and make a permanent impression on the dog that cars should not even be considered as a prey item.

Sometimes you have to be (a little bit) cruel to be kind.

Agree. I have no hesitation in proofing things with an e-collar that are required for my dog to do her job, or for her safety.

Use with the advice of an experienced professional, though. E-collars are not things to just stick on your dog & experiment with.

[Nekhbet]

problem is emma teh day you are not paying attention or there is when the trouble happens. Clickers are one thing, teaching a dog a lesson it never forgets that some dangerous things are entirely off limits and not to show prey drive towards them (car chasers, snakes etc) is another. I wouldnt consider your dog proofed, just well conditioned to choose you over the car when you have the dog at a closer proximity to you then the vehicle.

[Erny]

I agree with Nekhbet. Good e-collar training would be the way to go with this one. It's an exercise fraught with 'life, injury or death'. Would you trust your clicker training enough to "snake proof" your dog? That's similar.

[Aidan3]

I agree with Nekhbet. Good e-collar training would be the way to go with this one. It's an exercise fraught with 'life, injury or death'. Would you trust your clicker training enough to "snake proof" your dog? That's similar.

I wouldn't trust either completely. How many times do you test it? My own dog performed I don't know how many hundreds of successful trials not lunging at bikes, and we're not talking "look at me, look at me" (wave food around) but just walking normally with or without food. Then one day I was tying my laces and she lunged. Same dog was taught not to lunge at cars using an e-collar. That was much quicker (and it needed to be!), but it didn't last forever either, we had to keep following up.

[Erny]

Same dog was taught not to lunge at cars using an e-collar. That was much quicker (and it needed to be!), but it didn't last forever either, we had to keep following up.

"Tune-ups" are generally required, but IME if the former training was solid; ingrained; reliable (IOW some reason why the dog would harbour second thoughts) you generally get some indication of the inclination towards the behaviour resuming. This might be just ways the dog poises; looks; some sort of hesitation. That would be the time for a "tune-up" (test and reminder). I would suggest that under the circumstances of the country drive-way and chasing cars it would be reasonably do-able.

"Forever" without any follow-up training ever wasn't what I was talking about in terms of reliability. And I have found in my small amount of experience in training for complete avoidance/abstinence that e-collar training results in less in between tune-ups being required.

ETA: How often did you find your "follow-ups" with the e-collar needed to be in your situation, Aidan?

Edited December 27, 2010 by Erny

[Aidan3]

ETA: How often did you find your "follow-ups" with the e-collar needed to be in your situation, Aidan?

I follow up with +R, the e-collar stopped the behaviour at it's most dangerous and for a good while but every now and then I still reward.

[Annie99]

Thanks very much for all replies.

The owner rang last night and I told her my concerns.

She told me he does not chase her car, only other peoples cars. She told me she "smacked" him when she chased her car and therefore he does not do it any more.

She told me she does not get many visitors and when she does she holds him back (she did this with me).

When she said she "smacked" him I immediately said I do not believe in hitting dogs at all, especially as this one was a shelter dog which had been beaten. She told me this. You can always tell if you move your hand or arm too fast and the dog cringes. It is very sad to see dogs react this way.

So I will give her all suggestions when she gets back.

I took lots of photos of her dog and cat so will send her the info when I post off the photos to her.

I was wondering if anyone had an information sheet or anything like that I could enclose and send to her. (she told me she does not use computers or the internet so it will have to be hardcopy)

[Erny]

You can always tell if you move your hand or arm too fast and the dog cringes. It is very sad to see dogs react this way.

It's a myth to think that dogs must have been beaten; smacked; or hit by the human hand if they cringe to a raised arm etc. I know of dogs who have never been hit with the hand but shy away from a hand or arm that is raised or moves too fast.

[Staranais]

I was wondering if anyone had an information sheet or anything like that I could enclose and send to her. (she told me she does not use computers or the internet so it will have to be hardcopy)

I don't, but perhaps you could print out a copy of this thread?

OT, but I'll hopefully be taking my dog in for kiwi proofing/certification some time in the upcoming year. It's done by e-collar, P+. My understanding is that they retest the dog yearly after the initial training session & give a "tune up" then if the dog does not show avoidant behaviour around the bait. That's a little different to chasing cars, perhaps, since there's very little I can do between official sessions to either punish or reinforce correct behaviour around kiwi or kiwi scent, since both are very hard to come across on purpose.