Correct Nutrition

[Stitch]

I have fed raw for many years now, to many different dogs at various life stages.

What I have found is that I get better results with pregnant bitches (and some puppies/dogs) if I feed a good quality dry food however most dogs (not all) will choose raw over dry food most of the time.

Which leads me to my question - if pregnant bitches do better with a complete dry food, something must be lacking in the raw food. Generally I have fed Dr.B's BARF however there was a period that I was using VAN until I worked out that my dogs were getting a lot of gut bugs, probably from the minced chicken frames (even though I was getting it from a few different butchers, but that is another story).

So, is there a formula to ensure all vitamins, minerals, trace elements etc. are present in the right proportion in a raw only diet seeing as we are all doing our own recipes including commercially prepared ones like Dr.B's?? I guess that dog food manufacturers must have guidelines - I know I have tried to cover all bases when I fed raw - but I also know from my experiences that dry dog food seems to offer the best nutrition.

BTW I also know that raw produces less poos and is of course a more 'natural' diet but how do we know that 'complete' nutrition is being achieved???

[Nekhbet]

you cant guarentee unless you send every batch off for laboratory testing

if you are worried about it being complete use the VAN Health Booster powder. If you are feeding pure BARF there is little carbs in there which some dogs seem to do better on then pure protein so add a little cooked white rice to the mix. Mine dont do well on BARF so I make up a rice and veg mix

[Staranais]

We don't know. You can't tell for sure, except if you send each batch off for anaylsis, as Nekhbet claims.

There are computer programmes you can use to test whether the diet being fed to a carnivore is complete & balanced, many zoos use these for their carnivores. An example is Zootrition, http://www.zootrition.org/ However, even these rely on the assumption that the food you're serving has the same nutrient content as the food on the database.

Dog food manufacturers tend to certify their food to AAFCO standards, which itself uses data from the NRC (recommended nutrient concentrations for dogs are published in Nutrient Requirements of Dogs & Cats).

If your bitches do better on a dry diet, I'd say it's a safe bet that there's something missing from your raw diet. Different dogs have different tolerances for nutritional deficiencies, same as humans. So even if the recipe you're using works for other breeders or other dogs, doesn't mean it's 100% complete for all dogs.

[Stitch]

That's as I thought - we don't know, we get close but it does differ from breed to breed and from dog to dog.

An interesting subject though - thanks for your thoughts!

[espinay2]

There is a tome called the "Nutrient Requirements of Dogs" - designed to guide the pet industry though. One thing it mentions (and you will find this info in the Merck Veterinary Manual as well) is that the only time carbohydrates have been found to be useful for dogs is when they are a lactating bitch. May be that your raw diet is low carb whereas the commercial food is very high carb. Who knows really. Or it could be the specific things you are feeding. Are you allowing the bitch to choose what she eats? For example, in the week or two before whelping many bitches prefer to eat a lot of organ meat/boneless meat and less bone. After whelping more bone is good. This natural preference is actually very helpful as for example it allows the bitches body to adjust to reduce the chances of eclampysia occuring. If you want to talk it over with other breeders feeding a raw diet (who may have some ideas for you) go to www.yahoogroups.com/groups/rawbreeder Also take a look at the newsletter articles at www.b-naturals.com They have lots of references/source information and are well researched.

Edited December 27, 2010 by espinay2

[Stitch]

Thanks for those links espinay2, I will definitely follow them up.

As for feeding a bitch in the last few weeks, over the years I have developed a huge menu to choose from but preferences change from bitch to bitch.

BBQ chicken is generally the one they prefer, I had one that liked chicken necks for a while, most really like the Luv Em Liver cookies, none that liked raw offal but as I said it does vary.

I wondered if it was the constant, complete and unvarying way dried food delivers nutrients that gave better results in a pregnant bitch?

Interesting about the carbs when lactating.