Britains Ugliest Dog.

[Kavik]

I feel sorry for the poor dog. The eye looks like glaucoma to me, so I hope a vet has checked him and he is not suffering. And he has the very worst wry mouth I have ever seen. Hopefully they realise that when he is older he probably wont be able to eat.

Wonderful that he has a loving home - and lets hope he has been checked, and not just passed on.

Keira&Phoenix, not all of us agree with Dr McGreevy's ideas - particularly as he was studding his no particular breed, not health tested dog on the internet. He gives no references for his writings.

Here is a website - you might like to read both sides of the argument to be informed of all points.

http://www.wwsva.com/small-population-bree...iversity-issues

Might be time to bring back the Lithuanian Goat Catching Retriever, Kavic?? :D

It was a great piece of writing Jed!

[Jed]

Thanks, Kavic. I think it did help people to understand why a standard would say something like "almond shaped eye". Well, really, who the hell cares. It is not unless you are a breeder, or an exhibitor that you really understand, and none of those people ever explain to everyone else why it is so ... because they never think of it.

And there are so many breeds - not everyone knows about all of them. Often, conformation features are the difference between the dog being able to do his job, and maybe dying while he is trying to do it.

Anything which will help everyone understand the standards, their purpose, and the integrity of the purebred is good with me.

I have no problem with x breds, or mongs, and my only problem with pf is the way the breeding dogs are kept. But purebreds win hands down for me, every single time.

[aussielover]

Poor puppy!

To me he looks more than "ugly" he looks like he has some sort of serious growth deformity.

Hopefully he is, and will remain healthy.

Regarding crossbreeding, guide dogs have a small labrador x GR program, I would like to know the statistics on whether these dogs have a higher success rate and whether they are healthier overall. I will have to contact them.

If hybrid vigour is true, surely these first cross lab/GRs would be much healthier than their purebred counterparts? However it is my understanding that they produce this cross (very rarely) for a better temperament and trainability of the dog- not as boisterous as a lab but not as soft as a golden.

If anyone has any addtional info on this please enlighten me.

[OSoSwift]

Jed I would love to read the Lithuanian Goat herder story again

[Jed]

Here is a nice video which shows anyone interested where most of the cross bred dogs bred these days come from. Accidental doggies bred by the bogan in the next suburb who thought desexing his dog would rob him of his manhood aren't produced like this, but often it is not much better.

And some of the purebreds who get a bagging on this forum are featured in the video. Never mind that a proper breeder would not under any circumstances breed with them. Because they were bred at puppy farms, who neither know or care

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Openrescue1#p/a/u/2/erWL0v_tsKo

[TessiesTracey]

Here is a nice video which shows anyone interested where most of the cross bred dogs bred these days come from. Accidental doggies bred by the bogan in the next suburb who thought desexing his dog would rob him of his manhood aren't produced like this, but often it is not much better.

And some of the purebreds who get a bagging on this forum are featured in the video. Never mind that a proper breeder would not under any circumstances breed with them. Because they were bred at puppy farms, who neither know or care

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Openrescue1#p/a/u/2/erWL0v_tsKo

[Jed]

aussielover

If hybrid vigour is true, surely these first cross lab/GRs would be much healthier than their purebred counterparts? However it is my understanding that they produce this cross (very rarely) for a better temperament and trainability of the dog- not as boisterous as a lab but not as soft as a golden.

Hybrid vigour does exist. Unfortunately, the hybrid vigour as known to gardeners is not the same as that exhibited in dogs. Don Burke was always raving on about "hybrid vigour" when 2 different dog breeds were mated together. There is hybrid vigour if a pea is crossed with a bean, which was what he knew about as a gardener. Unfortunately, he thought it could be simply extrapolated to mammals. More unfortunately, a whole lot of people who should have known better believed him.

It is not so simple with dogs, and crossing one breed with another doesn't do it. Crossng one species with another does it, although that is largely impossible.

Hybrid vigour can be introduced to a hugely inbred line by introducing another strain, (not another breed). However, hugely inbred lines, as has been proven by the scientist who bred 200 generations of inbred rats without them having problems, do not necessarily need this.

Very complicated subject!

Tessies Tracey, did you eat something that disagreed with you, to be projective vomiting all over the forum??

[Miranda]

PROPER crossbreeding.

A true oxymoron.

[Souff]

Hybrid vigour does exist. Unfortunately, the hybrid vigour as known to gardeners is not the same as that exhibited in dogs. Don Burke was always raving on about "hybrid vigour" when 2 different dog breeds were mated together. There is hybrid vigour if a pea is crossed with a bean, which was what he knew about as a gardener. Unfortunately, he thought it could be simply extrapolated to mammals. More unfortunately, a whole lot of people who should have known better believed him.

Such is the power of the media, and the gullibility of many who watch television.

It would be nice if the term "Genetic Vigour" had been used instead and if people were schooled to understand that we do not have an unlimited supply of genes for the dogs. That the gene pools of purebred dogs should be protected, not decimated.

It is a while since I did the projections on the future of purebred dogs in Australia but it was something like 20 years .... less for many of the smaller breeds - such is the impact of the amount of de-sexing and crossbreeding in this country, and all the legislative deterrents that are being put in place by legislators, urged on by people who think they are "helping to save a dogs life". In their quest, they are helping to wipe out the future of healthy purebred dogs in this country.

Gene pools cannot rebuild themselves, they need our help to have sufficient numbers to be healthy, to survive.

Souff

[TessiesTracey]

aussielover

If hybrid vigour is true, surely these first cross lab/GRs would be much healthier than their purebred counterparts? However it is my understanding that they produce this cross (very rarely) for a better temperament and trainability of the dog- not as boisterous as a lab but not as soft as a golden.

Hybrid vigour does exist. Unfortunately, the hybrid vigour as known to gardeners is not the same as that exhibited in dogs. Don Burke was always raving on about "hybrid vigour" when 2 different dog breeds were mated together. There is hybrid vigour if a pea is crossed with a bean, which was what he knew about as a gardener. Unfortunately, he thought it could be simply extrapolated to mammals. More unfortunately, a whole lot of people who should have known better believed him.

It is not so simple with dogs, and crossing one breed with another doesn't do it. Crossng one species with another does it, although that is largely impossible.

Hybrid vigour can be introduced to a hugely inbred line by introducing another strain, (not another breed). However, hugely inbred lines, as has been proven by the scientist who bred 200 generations of inbred rats without them having problems, do not necessarily need this.

Very complicated subject!

Tessies Tracey, did you eat something that disagreed with you, to be projective vomiting all over the forum??

lol No, Jed, 'twas meant to be more of a bleugh reaction to that video..

[Jed]

I know,. TT

[TessiesTracey]

I know,. TT ;)

Sorry! lol I was taking things a bit 'literal' like (tried to do the dunces hat there but the whatsits aren't working on my laptop!).

[Jed]

LOL, tis a horrid video. I don't think anyone who loves dogs could fail to be moved by it. And pf dogs have such a terrible life. I have rehabilitated a few, and it is so difficult for them - they don't know their names, they have no idea about anything. Such torture to allow a dog to get to that, and we not only allow it we license it. Fully sick!!

[kimzy]

that poor dog

that is really upsetting

[LizT]

When I say proper cross breeding I mean cross breeding for the betterment of a particular type of dog done by loving, caring breeders with knowledge. Not cross breeding by BYB idiots.

What sort of "knowledge"?

Perhaps she is referring to the "injection" of other similar breeds into a Purebred line which is no longer acceptable practice since the vigourous monitoring of "Studbooks" but was common practise to "improve" or "establish" some "hybrid vigour" into a Purebred line in days of yore. Or as has been done in the past in the case of resurrecting nearly extinct breeds.

As to poor Doug he is not ugly he is malformed and this should not be celebrated. Nice that someone is willing to care for him but I doubt he will live a long and happy life.

Edited December 30, 2010 by LizT

[BittyMooPeeb]

I have thought about the "all breeds were developed as crossbreeds of others" argument and can identify only ONE breed that appears to hold true for - the Pudel Pointer. Even then, poodles weren't used after the first couple of generations and other dogs were added.

Most breeds were developed by crossing individual dogs that displayed desired traits to make those traits more likely in future generations. That was almost invariably done by line breeding fairly quickly into the breeding process.

Hi PF,

I thought that crossbreeding with purebred dogs was a current practice. The examples I have heard originate mainly in the US where (I have read) another breed can be introduced, and after x generations of breeding back to pure, the progeny can then be re-registered as pure. Irish Setters (I have read) had Afghan introduced to get a fancier coat. Havanese are purported to have had Lowchen and Shih-tzu introduced in the earlier days of breeding in the US. Dallies were crossed with a Pointer in the 70's to eliminate a genetic problem. Boxers were crossed (with a Corgi I think) to introduce the bob-tail gene etc. And all of these 'crossbreeds' are currenlty recognised by at least one Canine Council.

So there are multiple breeds - as they exist today - that were created/modified by crossbreeding.

I dont necessarily agree or disagree with this crossbreeding (though I do disagree with the Afghan/Setter cross as to me this seems to be done purely to create a flashy show dog and decreases the dog's fitness for function).

Gail

[MolassesLass]

I have thought about the "all breeds were developed as crossbreeds of others" argument and can identify only ONE breed that appears to hold true for - the Pudel Pointer. Even then, poodles weren't used after the first couple of generations and other dogs were added.

Most breeds were developed by crossing individual dogs that displayed desired traits to make those traits more likely in future generations. That was almost invariably done by line breeding fairly quickly into the breeding process.

The Bullmastiff was developed by crossing the Bulldog and the Mastiff, they even did the name merge!

The Bullmastiff breed, as its name suggests, is a combination of the Mastiff and the Bulldog. It was created in England in the mid-1800s; the only guarding breed to originate in England.

At the time of its creation, there were many large estates in England, the owners of which frowned upon the game in their estates being poached. Gamekeepers were employed to oversee and protect the game in the estates and they needed an able assistant; the poachers being a rather dangerous lot since punishment for poaching was hanging. Mastiffs were tried but found to be somewhat slow and to not have the drive necessary to down and hold a man. Bulldogs (a quite different type that we see today) were tried, but the bulldog of that era was very ferocious and tended to tear the poacher up too much.

So, crosses were made of the Bulldog and Mastiff until a ratio of 60% Mastiff/40% Bulldog was achieved. This type of dog, eventually called the Bullmastiff, served the needs of the gamekeeper very well.

[RadarJuniorDog]

Well depends on if you want a poseur dog as a thing to make yourself look better, or are prepared to give him a chance to be "Man's best friend and faithful companion", its not looks but behaviour that counts!

[Souff]

It is also about an animal being able to eat and function properly and without distress and pain.

The dog's health and welfare should be uppermost in everyone's mind.

[Crisovar]

Well depends on if you want a poseur dog as a thing to make yourself look better, or are prepared to give him a chance to be "Man's best friend and faithful companion", its not looks but behaviour that counts!

Uhm maybe being able to live and function normally and healthily would be a bonus here too, but hey whatever floats your boat.