2 Big Staffies Moving In Next Door

[Keira&Phoenix]

All in All I think the topic started out friendly enough the OP posed a reasonable question and many of us gave her reasonable friendly responses such as my original one, basically don't have pre-conceptions, try to go in with an open mind, talk to your new neighbours and if they are reasonable explain what has happened in the past, hopefully they will then be helpful.

I don't know how it turned into a discussion on breed bashing. I don't think that is what the OP intended s/he was clearly nervous and needed some sound advice from other dog people. I hope that the OP read some of the posts and will follow through by making contact with the new neighbours

[dee lee]

I have just reread the original post and I don't see any sign of breed bashing.

The op has had a bad experience and a lingering if somewhat exaggerated fear. Hey - she's human

Her concerns about staffies being escape artists are quite reasonable.

Very glad she has put herself out there and asked for advice.

As are her concerns about aggression.

It has been mentioned on here more than once before, by SBT breeders and experts, that as a breed they can have a tendency to DA.

Not all do, but, as has also been mentioned, they are definitely overbred by BYB with no concern for temperament. Added to a common breed tendency not to like other dogs (mentioned on many breed websites), if a fight is started, a SBT will definitely finish it.

I too, from past experience, am wary of any bull breeds I come across that are unknown to me when out walking my GR.

I watch closely and avoid any breed that could badly hurt/kill my dog if they decided to attack her.

If I don't know the dog, its always a risk- its just happens that its a higher risk with a SBT.

Here's hoping the OP has a well bred, well socialised, well trained lovely pair of SBTs move in.

I currently have a boot ready each time I leave my house, for the rabid SWF that lives next door. I'm not so worried about it hurting my dog though.

Edited December 22, 2010 by ✽deelee

[Snout Girl]

I have a fear of SWFs after having being bitten by one.

[megan_]

As are her concerns about aggression.

It has been mentioned on here more than once before, by SBT breeders and experts, that as a breed they can have a tendency to DA.

Not all do, but, as has also been mentioned, they are definitely overbred by BYB with no concern for temperament. Added to a common breed tendency not to like other dogs (mentioned on many breed websites), if a fight is started, a SBT will definitely finish it.

I too, from past experience, am wary of any bull breeds I come across that are unknown to me when out walking my GR.

I watch closely and avoid any breed that could badly hurt/kill my dog if they decided to attack her.

If I don't know the dog, its always a risk- its just happens that its a higher risk with a SBT.

Here's hoping the OP has a well bred, well socialised, well trained lovely pair of SBTs move in.

I currently have a boot ready each time I leave my house, for the rabid SWF that lives next door. I'm not so worried about it hurting my dog though.

Great post deelee. Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing".

I don't let my dogs play with any strange dogs that neither I nor they could take care of. Given that they're mini schnauzers, that rules a lot of dogs out!

Edited December 22, 2010 by megan_

[Vickie]

Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing".

Agreed. Not only do certain breeds have certain tendancies, certain breeds also have certain capabilities that other breeds simply do not have. Once you have been on the receiving end of some of these capabilities in life & death situations, irrational fears are no longer irrational.

[R00]

In very simple terms each person is responsible for keeping their dogs in their yard and other dogs out of their yard. If everyone kept by this mantra then we wouldn't even be discussing this issue.

My next door neighbour is currently talking about getting a mature dog. We get all extremely well and we regard each other as friends. He is going to make sure his dog can't get near ours and I am going to make sure mine can't get near his. Not because of any agression or issues but because it is the right thing to do.

I wouldn't care if a Lion moved in next door, but I sure as hell would be making sure it can't get into my yard, likewise if a Maltese moved in. No difference except maybe fence height! ha ha

Edited December 22, 2010 by R00

[Quickasyoucan]

As are her concerns about aggression.

It has been mentioned on here more than once before, by SBT breeders and experts, that as a breed they can have a tendency to DA.

Not all do, but, as has also been mentioned, they are definitely overbred by BYB with no concern for temperament. Added to a common breed tendency not to like other dogs (mentioned on many breed websites), if a fight is started, a SBT will definitely finish it.

I too, from past experience, am wary of any bull breeds I come across that are unknown to me when out walking my GR.

I watch closely and avoid any breed that could badly hurt/kill my dog if they decided to attack her.

If I don't know the dog, its always a risk- its just happens that its a higher risk with a SBT.

Here's hoping the OP has a well bred, well socialised, well trained lovely pair of SBTs move in.

I currently have a boot ready each time I leave my house, for the rabid SWF that lives next door. I'm not so worried about it hurting my dog though.

Great post deelee. Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing".

I don't let my dogs play with any strange dogs that neither I nor they could take care of. Given that they're mini schnauzers, that rules a lot of dogs out!

Actually I think it is less breed bashing more the fact that because they are staffords or staffies there is likely to be trouble AND that the owners are less likely to keep them in because they are stafford owners.

I love staffords but I know they have potential to be DA, does that necesarily mean that the ones next door are going to be DA or that they are going to climb over and kill the scottie? How about giving people (not dogs) the benefit of the doubt that they are going to be reasonable neighbours until proven otherwise.

DeeLee I know you had a bad experience with yoru previous rescue but not all stafford rescues are like that. A while ago you were posting about your golden retriever rushing people and other dogs. There are plenty of DA and HA goldens around. I have met a couple and know a vet who says the worst dogs they have to treat are goldens and labs because people assume they are going to be okay. How would you feel if I started a thread saying there were goldens moving in next door and (before I had even met them) I feared for my dogs life???

There is breed honesty and there is catastrophising. The OP's opening gambit smacked of catastrophising. If she had said my neighbour has moved in next door with two DA staffords what do I do no-one would have accused anyone of breed bashing, but she hasn't even met said dogs or said neighbours.

I wasn't objecting to people bashing staffords I was saying how about waiting to see what these people are like, there is a very big difference.

[Clyde]

I have just reread the original post and I don't see any sign of breed bashing.

The op has had a bad experience and a lingering if somewhat exaggerated fear. Hey - she's human

Her concerns about staffies being escape artists are quite reasonable.

Very glad she has put herself out there and asked for advice.

I agree and I have the breed!

[3Woofs]

You could always put that brush fencing stuff up against the inside of your fence to stop the dogs seeing each other. This should help with any fence running/barking.

My stafford couldn't care less about other dogs, never barks (except at the lawnmower), and pretty much just lays in the sun all day.... so there's every chance you'll have a couple like mine move in next door

[Quickasyoucan]

As are her concerns about aggression.

It has been mentioned on here more than once before, by SBT breeders and experts, that as a breed they can have a tendency to DA.

Not all do, but, as has also been mentioned, they are definitely overbred by BYB with no concern for temperament. Added to a common breed tendency not to like other dogs (mentioned on many breed websites), if a fight is started, a SBT will definitely finish it.

I too, from past experience, am wary of any bull breeds I come across that are unknown to me when out walking my GR.

I watch closely and avoid any breed that could badly hurt/kill my dog if they decided to attack her.

If I don't know the dog, its always a risk- its just happens that its a higher risk with a SBT.

Here's hoping the OP has a well bred, well socialised, well trained lovely pair of SBTs move in.

I currently have a boot ready each time I leave my house, for the rabid SWF that lives next door. I'm not so worried about it hurting my dog though.

Great post deelee. Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing".

I don't let my dogs play with any strange dogs that neither I nor they could take care of. Given that they're mini schnauzers, that rules a lot of dogs out!

Actually I think it is less breed bashing more the fact that because they are staffords or staffies there is likely to be trouble AND that the owners are less likely to keep them in because they are stafford owners.

I love staffords but I know they have potential to be DA, does that necesarily mean that the ones next door are going to be DA or that they are going to climb over and kill the scottie? How about giving people (not dogs) the benefit of the doubt that they are going to be reasonable neighbours until proven otherwise.

DeeLee I know you had a bad experience with yoru previous rescue but not all stafford rescues are like that. A while ago you were posting about your golden retriever rushing people and other dogs. There are plenty of DA and HA goldens around. I have met a couple and know a vet who says the worst dogs they have to treat are goldens and labs because people assume they are going to be okay. How would you feel if I started a thread saying there were goldens moving in next door and (before I had even met them) I feared for my dogs life???

There is breed honesty and there is catastrophising. The OP's opening gambit smacked of catastrophising. If she had said my neighbour has moved in next door with two DA staffords what do I do no-one would have accused anyone of breed bashing, but she hasn't even met said dogs or said neighbours.

I wasn't objecting to people talking honestly about the potential for staffords to be DA I was saying how about waiting to see what these people are like, there is a very big difference.

Interesting that some people say they are opposed to BSL but post here with views that seem very contrary to being anti-BSL. Of course breeds have their individual characteristics, but we also need to assess each indivitual canine on how it actually behaves. Ask any behaviourist what is the most dangerous breed of dog and I am sure they will tell you that focussing on breed takes away from the many factors that cause a dog to be dangerous.

And again lets not forget that these dogs have not yet even moved in nor has the OP met the neighbours.

As Roo said I wouldn't care if an elephant moved in next door, so long as once they had moved in the neighbours turned out to be reasonable.

[Kaz]

Yep, I have a bully x - he is high drive and had a tendancy toward aggression as a pup.

Constant socialisation and firm leadership has turned him into a lovely boy. He was my main concern when staffies moved in next door

[poodlefan]

Quick:

Interesting that some people say they are opposed to BSL but post here with views that seem very contrary to being anti-BSL.

The key issue of course is that many breeds have the potential to be troublesome in the wrong hands. Lack of effective control and failure to socialise and train are often triggers but uncontrolled dogs manifest different undesireable behaviours and some of those behaviours are more common to a breed than others.

That truism is 'breed bashing' according to some. Those who comment on the undesirable characteristics of some breeds are bullies whose opinions apparently dominate this forum although ironically most of the rudeness and personal insults are thrown by those "defending their breed".

Get real people. Breeds were developed to make some characteristics more common. Some of those characteristics in the hands of the wrong owners make some breeds royal pains in the arse. Noting that doesn't mean you hate the breed.

[Lady Flying Furball]

Wondering what you mean by "big" staffies? Maybe they are not staffies at all

[Tilly]

I agree with the responses that suggest speaking to the neighbours. I would make an effort to get to know the dogs and let the neighbours know your concerns/fears making sure they know it is your problem not theirs.

Maybe once you get to know the neighbours maybe try going for a walk with them and their dogs - neutral ground and all under control on leads. I find my boys like other dogs better when they are walked together.

If the neighbours are not interested in getting to know you and your dog ... then maybe look at some solid fencing down that side of the yard.

[dee lee]

Quickasyoucan, I understand your point but, as I said in my post, I am wary of any dog that could hurt/kill mine. Even labs and goldies I wait and watch body language. Both breeds could be more than capable of inflicting damage.

If you or the OP had had a bad experience with either I would not blame you for being nervous around them.

I had an offlead lab have a go at my onlead staffyx. Yes, my goldie has rushed (non aggressively, but those she was rushing could not have known that) - I know those breeds are not always totally benign either.

I agree, the OP should wait and see, but I don't blame her for being worried. She has had a bad experience.

[Quickasyoucan]

Quick:

Interesting that some people say they are opposed to BSL but post here with views that seem very contrary to being anti-BSL.

The key issue of course is that many breeds have the potential to be troublesome in the wrong hands. Lack of effective control and failure to socialise and train are often triggers but uncontrolled dogs manifest different undesireable behaviours and some of those behaviours are more common to a breed than others.

That truism is 'breed bashing' according to some. Those who comment on the undesirable characteristics of some breeds are bullies whose opinions apparently dominate this forum although ironically most of the rudeness and personal insults are thrown by those "defending their breed".

Get real people. Breeds were developed to make some characteristics more common. Some of those characteristics in the hands of the wrong owners make some breeds royal pains in the arse. Noting that doesn't mean you hate the breed.

PF I agree, but the point I am trying to make was said neighbours and said dogs have not even been sighted yet so we don't even know what their behaviour will be. So there needs to be some realism rather than prejudice.

[Sandra777]

Wondering what you mean by "big" staffies? Maybe they are not staffies at all

I asked this question yesterday but since OP hasn't been back I haven't got my answer either. "Big Staffies" is what is generally called an oxymoron (I think! :D )

Has anyone even seen in the mouth of a Scottie - bigger teeth than any ''staffie'' (big or not!) and usually the attitude to make good use of them when challenged.

I would think fence fighting could be an issue with fault on both sides.

Swap you my d*ckhead neighbours and their kind-off GSD type, which has decided demolishing the fence is the easiest way to get into the mouths of my Staffords.

It'll be declared dangerous pretty soon I should think the way it attacks the fence on the other side which borders a public walk way used by a lot of children.

[Tiggy]

Wondering what you mean by "big" staffies? Maybe they are not staffies at all

Amstaffs maybe

I dare say what the OP refers to as a "Staffie" is not a registered Staffordshire Bull Terrier but a cross or a badly bred BYB SBT.

The SBT is a medium breed and height wise I'd class them as small.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Tiggy

[Polgara's Shadow]

Maybe where I live is where responsible dog owners retreat to... but I've never experienced a dog fight here. At the park, down the dog beach, walking around the streets - not one fight ever. I've been here 5 years.

My SBT pup (now 14 months) has been going to the local dog beaches since he was old enough to be immunised and we have only come across people and dogs who are dog friendly. The older dogs have allways put him in his place when he's pushed their limits, but it's never gotten close to serious aggression. Maybe it's only the responsible dog owners who go out and about with their dogs here

The only comments people make to me about my SBT is how handsome he is, what good breeding he must have and what great pets SBT's make. I have been stunned to read how many people have had bad experiences with staffies going for their dogs. This is our third SBT and none of them have been dog aggresive, we also have friends with Staffies, Bull Terriers and Rotties, possibly considered scary breeds by some, they all get along well.

I feel awful for those who have experienced dogs being aggressive to them and theirs, especially those who say their neighbourhoods are full of aggressive dogs

I don't think I'm trying to make any points, just expressing my suprise (and dissapointment too) that so many of you have had bad experiences.

edited for typos, grammar etc

Edited December 22, 2010 by Polgara's Shadow

[SoL]

Wondering what you mean by "big" staffies? Maybe they are not staffies at all

I asked this question yesterday but since OP hasn't been back I haven't got my answer either. "Big Staffies" is what is generally called an oxymoron (I think! )

Has anyone even seen in the mouth of a Scottie - bigger teeth than any ''staffie'' (big or not!) and usually the attitude to make good use of them when challenged.

I would think fence fighting could be an issue with fault on both sides.

Swap you my d*ckhead neighbours and their kind-off GSD type, which has decided demolishing the fence is the easiest way to get into the mouths of my Staffords.

It'll be declared dangerous pretty soon I should think the way it attacks the fence on the other side which borders a public walk way used by a lot of children.

Ahhh you too have dickhead neighbours - I have one who has an HA and DA red cattle dog - she's never walked, never even played with, runs the fence, attacks teh fence to get to you, the dogs or any kid that happens to be near the fence - and yet we are the ones with "savage dogs"!!!

Any dog, of any breed, in the hands of a tosser, can be dangerous. Scotties are terriers too, don't forget, with terrier tendencies and a nice set of canines!

I would think that the new neighbours would welcome the chat as it would show that you have respect for their dogs as well as your own. If they have any sense about them they will discuss preventative measures with you - remember it is a two-way street though. Just because your perception of Staffords has been coloured, please don't have rose coloured glasses on about what your own dog can do and make no effort to help the situation.