Very Itchy Dog

[aussielover]

My 9 month old pup has had a few ongoing skin issues. She has been extremely itchy yesterday and today and also has a rash and pustules on her tummy and armpits. She has had "puppy pyoderma"previously about 3-4 times before, but seems to be more itchy this time.

We saw the vet last weekend when the pustules/rash first appeared and were given antibiotics, a corticosteriod apray (cortavance) and malaseb shampoo to bathe her in.

The rash went away for a few days but is now back

Pup is extremely itchy today, i am going to give her another bath and she has had the spray applied.

I was wondering if human antihistamines such as claratyne, zyrtec etc might help?

Or should we go back and see the vet? I would rather wait until tomorrow if we need to go to the vet though as we are supposed to contact guide dogs before seeing a vet (unless life-threatening, very ill etc). Also many vets here are only open for 2hrs and charge a sunday consult fee of around $90!

Any tips on how to make her more comfortable?

Our vet said skin probs like this were common in younger dogs and were likely to resolve when she got older, so allergy testing was not recommended.

btw she is on regular flea and tick prevention and I haven't seen any fleas on her (but still could be a flea allergy)

Edited December 21, 2010 by aussielover

[sheree_e4]

I would bath her weekly in maleseb, remember it has to stay on her coat for 10mins before washing her off , Also grab some pyohex leave in conditioner as this makes the maleseb work better and it can be used between baths

[Staranais]

I've heard good things about Calendula tea for the temporary relief of itchy skin (tee hee Erny, I beat you to it!) I'd also go see the vet on Monday, though.

Did the vet diagnose this as definitely puppy pyoderma? And did the antibiotics not work at all, or only temporarily?

From what I understand of puppy pyoderma, if that is what it is, then it usually resolves by itself before the dog is a year old. A 3 or 4 week course of antibiotics (something like Rilexine) should also clear it up - if not, they recommend we do culture & sensitivity testing on the bacteria, to ensure we're giving the right antibiotic. Most pyodermas are secondary to something - allergies, endocrine, mites, moisture or trauma of the skin, etc - so identifying any underlying contributing factors is also a good plan.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Staranais

[Nekhbet]

Our vet said skin probs like this were common in younger dogs and were likely to resolve when she got older, so allergy testing was not recommended.

that many times and forming pustules is not normal. I would be finding a new vet if they just keep sending your dog home with no resolve

I use phenergen, settles the skin and makes them a little drowsy so they can sleep it off. Ask the chemist for the lowest dose one and give one

[Danois]

I would bath her weekly in maleseb, remember it has to stay on her coat for 10mins before washing her off , Also grab some pyohex leave in conditioner as this makes the maleseb work better and it can be used between baths

Maleseb can be very harsh.

I would be going to another vet too - I recommend Pennant Hills Vet - they are very knowledgeable re itchy dogs.

I also find phenergen to be most effective anti-histamine. Look at the Ingleburn Vet website for dose rates but speak with a vet first.

Wouldn't allergies render the pup unsuitable for being a guide dog?

[aussielover]

Thanks for your replies.

I was under the impression that Puppy pyoderma was just a descriptive term for pustules forming on the skin of puppies.

The antibiotics usually clear up the pustules, but this is the first time that they have come back while she's still on them.

She is on cephaxelein (kefvet) for 2 more weeks.

Ongoing allergies would probab;y rule her out of the guide dog program however they are waiting to see whether this is just a puppy problem (apparently rather common in young retrievers) or will be on going.

Seems to be much worse in summer.

She is more comfortable after her bath and i also gave her a polaraimne tab.

[Staranais]

I was under the impression that Puppy pyoderma was just a descriptive term for pustules forming on the skin of puppies.

It's a synonym for Impetigo/Superficial pustular dermatitis.

[labsrule]

Thanks for your replies.

I was under the impression that Puppy pyoderma was just a descriptive term for pustules forming on the skin of puppies.

The antibiotics usually clear up the pustules, but this is the first time that they have come back while she's still on them.

She is on cephaxelein (kefvet) for 2 more weeks.

Ongoing allergies would probab;y rule her out of the guide dog program however they are waiting to see whether this is just a puppy problem (apparently rather common in young retrievers) or will be on going.

Seems to be much worse in summer.

She is more comfortable after her bath and i also gave her a polaraimne tab.

Really (what I have bolded) Was this advised by Guide Dogs or your Vet. I haven't encountered this problem with any of my retriever pups/youngsters and I haven't heard that this is an issue that is common with young retrievers so that is why I am interested in who advised you of this. If it is Guide Dogs who breed their own Labs or source from a particular breeder or two, then it may be a problem within the breeding lines as opposed to a generic problem with Labradors. If advised by your vet, then there could be more likelihood of it being a generic problem as they would see a variety of Labs from different breeders.

[aussielover]

Thanks for your replies.

I was under the impression that Puppy pyoderma was just a descriptive term for pustules forming on the skin of puppies.

The antibiotics usually clear up the pustules, but this is the first time that they have come back while she's still on them.

She is on cephaxelein (kefvet) for 2 more weeks.

Ongoing allergies would probab;y rule her out of the guide dog program however they are waiting to see whether this is just a puppy problem (apparently rather common in young retrievers) or will be on going.

Seems to be much worse in summer.

She is more comfortable after her bath and i also gave her a polaraimne tab.

Really (what I have bolded) Was this advised by Guide Dogs or your Vet. I haven't encountered this problem with any of my retriever pups/youngsters and I haven't heard that this is an issue that is common with young retrievers so that is why I am interested in who advised you of this. If it is Guide Dogs who breed their own Labs or source from a particular breeder or two, then it may be a problem within the breeding lines as opposed to a generic problem with Labradors. If advised by your vet, then there could be more likelihood of it being a generic problem as they would see a variety of Labs from different breeders.

A number of vets and guide dogs have said its common for young dogs to get this and to wait and see if it clears up as she gets older.

Guide dogs didn't specifically say labs and goldens, but seeing as they only use labs and GRs I assume this is the case.

Different vets have said this can be an issue in young, growing dogs, particularly retrievers. But that may have been in relation to retrievers having increased incidience of skin problems overall, I have certainly seen an increased incidence of hotspots in GRs and labs compared to other breeds (perhaps because they spend alot of time in the water?)

[Stitch]

The most common cause of pyoderma is staphylococcus bacteria.

The antibiotics, cortisone are used in conjunction with malaseb, and the dog is usually shampooed every couple of days for a couple of weeks.

Diet can play a part in all this - my Dobe gets it as a seasonal thing but obviously also has a predisposition for it.

I would think that it is not necessarily something that it would grow out of but perhaps the immune system settles down after puppyhood in some cases.

[Erny]

I've heard good things about Calendula tea for the temporary relief of itchy skin (tee hee Erny, I beat you to it!) I'd also go see the vet on Monday, though.

Lol .... I came into this thread wondering if anyone would!!

:rolleyes: for Calendula Tea. The more I use it in a variety of situations, the increasingly impressed I become with it.

From constantly having wet feet (training in wet grass) that saw no relief until the finish of the day, I developed a case of tinea. Having nothing else available and it being painful, I soaked my foot in Calendula Tea. Problem gone inside 24 hours. Once application. Probably should have done it a few times to be certain, but that's all I did.

In the last few days, my Mum broke out in a very nasty angry raised rash which was very rapidly spreading across her forehead and even working its way down to one of her eyes. She paid a visit to the Doctors who, although not completely convinced, was concerned that it might have been shingles. He wanted to give Mum a cortisone shot just in case. Mum reacts badly to cortisone injections so she put that idea off, although there was a very real concern that the rash was indicative of something serious so we weren't prepared to muck around too much for too long.

Three applications of Calendula Tea inside that one afternoon saw, by the next morning, the rash on her forehead reduced by at least 20%. Three more applications during the next day saw it 50% reduced. I'm told it is continuing to reduce (haven't seen Mum for a couple of days, so it might even have all but disappeared by now).

And of course most people here on DOL know how successful the Calendula Tea applications have been in the treatment of my dog's hive outbreaks and how its use has assisted in it not becoming necessary to use cortisone treatments. Now that I have had him tested and diagnosed as hypothyroidic and that he is on meds for that, the hive outbreaks which have troubled him for the better part of his young life seem to have desisted (*touchwood*).

Sorry - not meant to be a hi-jack of the thread, but because Calendula often brings results in such a short period of time, I think it is really worth while trying in many instances. It's not a cure to the underlying cause of the problem, but it often does help with the symptoms. And if it is going to work I find that you will generally see improvement inside 24 hours, so it is not as though you've waisted weeks trying something that is not going to work.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Erny

[stormie]

If she's itchy, her skin is going to be inflamed and irritated and this combined with the scratching would be breaking the natural skin barrier and allowing the naturally present staph to take over. So I would think that it's the itchy skin causing the pustules, infections etc, rather than the other way around.

I've never really heard of puppies being itchy and then having it resolve. The fact it gets worse in summer is more likely to be allergies, either environmental, fleas etc.

After the malaseb baths, apply some alpha kerri oil or QV oil to her coat - it will help stop it drying out too much and also provide a barrier. But keep up with regular bathing to help rule out fungal infections too.

You need to completely rule out fleas and flea allergy so get yourself a really good flea product. Make sure there's no wandering jew in your garden.

After doing this and still no answers, you think want to look at a food elimination diet, so starting her on a completely new food with ingredients she's never eaten before.

Another things Derms suggest, which is very difficult, is looking at whether inside or outside is more of a trigger. So she would spend her time completely outside for a couple of weeks, then the same thing inside. I didn't do this myself because Orbit was young and I just couldn't have him outside 24/7 for that long. Not many people can do it. I did the inside bit though and found his itching lessen whilst inside.

If no change or still itchy after ruling out bacteria,fungal, parasites, food, then you've pretty much got an allergic dog. Adding oils to the diet can help but I personally wouldn't do this until after an elimination diet, in case the oils you use are a trigger (eg my dog is allergic to fish so giving fish oil was counter productive). Anti histamines can be great too, but sometimes its a matter of trialling a few before you find one that works.

If it is atopy (allergies) unfortunately there's no real cure, though there has been some success with desensitising injections. For us, the only things that provide relief is Atopica (an allergy drug) and low doses of cortisone with antihistamine.

I hope this helps. I probably wouldn't be totally happy with being told it will go away, because there's a pretty high chance it won't but will actually get worse. If you can, I would look at getting an appointment with a Dermatologist. They'll be able to tell you whether it's going to go away or not and help with a treatment plan etc.

[persephone]

Trouble is, aussielover-as it is a guide dog puppy , I guess they have the last word on treatments etc. Makes things tricky, I would imagine ..and hard for you to know what to do :rolleyes: ....

just my two cent's worth..I would not think that it is a 'common' thing in young dogs , to be grown out of , either

[sas]

I wish Calendula worked for us, I've tried it on itchy foster dogs and my own very allergic without success, even sponge bathing them in it and trying it as a spray.

[sas]

Here's the dossage rates for the Anti-histimines:

Edited December 19, 2010 by sas

[aussielover]

Thanks guys!

Yeah I am skeptical about her growing out of it, especially as she seemed to have issues from such a young age, which are more than just itchiness now and then.

Where do you get calendula tea and how do you apply it?

The polaramine hasn't really had any noticeable effect.

Will be taking her to the vets again today

[JulesP]

Antihistamines will only work if it is an allergy. They will not work on something like a staph infection.

You buy the tea from health food shops.

[Erny]

Where do you get calendula tea and how do you apply it?

As Huski has said - purchase from a Health Food Shop. Brew it up like you would tea (I use the toe of a stocking as I would a tea bag). Boiling water - let it steep until the water cools. Then wet the affected area up with it and let it dry on (ie don't rinse off). I use about one heaped tablespoon of the tea to one cup of water.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

was this the same pup having problems with her diet and poo as well? I'd skip the vets and head straight for a specialist seems like she's now beyond the scope of a normal veterinarian

Common as in it is a problem seen in younger dogs yes. But many have been sorted with diet changes. Is yours on Pal/Pedigree? (racking my brains lol) That could be contributing as well she may need to go on a home made diet. There's no way cheaper foods support the skin.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Antihistamines will only work if it is an allergy. They will not work on something like a staph infection.

You buy the tea from health food shops.

That is not strictly true, my dog has real bad allergies but Polaramine does NOT a thing to help him when he is real bad. Zyrtec does help but not very effective when he is bad in summer, he is on antihistamines and low dose of pred ( cortisone) at the moment and he is still bad. Aussielover Mason started showing allergy symptoms around 9 months, although before this he had constant tummy problems as a pup which we now know is food allergies as well as his allergies to pollen, dust, insects etc.