House Training An Older Entire Male

[LizT]

I have a thread in Rescue title "About to Foster my first Rescue Cavalier" with some history on this little fellow.

Basically though he is a 7 year old entire male who has lived in a "Chicken Run" type enclosure and crated too judging by his keeness and willingness to stay happily in his crate. He has been liberated from a "Puppy Farm" environment and is now undergoing rehabilitation.

Problem is when let out of his crate he will immediately walk over to a piece of wall, door, furniture, drapes, whatever and sniff, then proceed to lift his leg. We have stopped him three times with an "AUHAARH!" and a physical movment from us, then taken him outside to toilet on lead and praise him lavishly when he does go. Problem is he also seems to want to pee about 8 times on various objects outside, so we are limiting him to an area in the yard exclusive to his toileting and keeping him on the lead for now.

Even when he has been toileted outside he still appears to want to "mark" indoors.

Is it possible to housetrain and older dog with this kind of background? At the very least if he needs to live outdoors I think the new owners would prefer a dog that didn't lift his leg on EVERYTHING! Could make for a very smelly back patio???

He will be desexed in maybe two weeks as the Vet feels he is too weak at the moment, will this help to change his need to mark or is it too late for a 7 year old dog to break the habit of a lifetime?

[Erny]

Yes it is possible to 'teach an old dog new tricks', so to speak. You need to teach the house training just as you would teach a new puppy. It is likely to take longer, but it is possible.

Continue to use the lead (eg. don't take a chance .... use the lead straight away to lead him out from his crate and straight to the toilet area).

It might also assist if you provide him with a "pee post" in the allocated toilet area.

He is marking, by the sounds of things. Although that doesn't mean you have to accept this inside. Watch what you use to clean up after him (ensuring it is not ammonia based) and practice your leadership skills.

[LizT]

Okay, we've been taking Otis outside to toilet on lead for 10 days now. He has had short periods of supervised "freedom" around the house but has had to be stopped from cocking his leg on numerous occassions.

He is scheduled to be desexed later this week.

Many people have told me I should just get him a belly band and rehome him with this.

This doesn't sit well with me as I have seen one too many Entire Show dog cock his leg on things he shouldn't (doorways, Stewards coats on back of chairs, table legs, other peoples crates, peoples shoes etc) with total oblivion on the part of the owner! :p It is one of my "pet hates'.

A belly band would be a last resort to me. He is not 'elderly or incontinent".

[schnauzer]

Ex puppy farm dogs normally take longer to toilet train. It can be done. :p

As Erny advises do exactly the same as with a baby puppy.

I take them outside during the night as I would with a puppy, wait until they wee (however long it takes) reward the good behaviour with kind words, big pat and come back inside and say "basket" or "go to bed". This can sometimes take months before they are realiably trained. It is very early days with your dog, do not expect too much, the dog has been confined for a long time. 10 days is nothing in terms of time with an ex pf dog - it can take months/years to rehab. them. My bitch took about 4-5 weeks to be toilet trained. Personally, I would not use a belly band.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I wouldn't rely on the desexing to do it alone. Weirdly enough our desexed dog has started cocking his leg (outside) in the last few years, perhaps the influence of living with two other entire males? It's behaviour as much as it is hormones and hormones take a while to wash out of the dog's system.

I see your situation as being similar to those who take on spraying male tom cats (which we have been nuts enough to do in the past). It's the Olympics of house training :p

As another poster said long term house soiling problems take a lot of time to overcome, it's not like training a labrador puppy who was bred and raised by a trainer breeder. The hard core remedial stuff is the kind of training that needs to be done over a series of months by a dedicated and experienced house trainer.

I wouldn't rehome with a belly band unless you were rehoming to a very experienced house with a track record of fixing difficult house soiling problems. Living full time with a belly banded dog is not a lot of fun and a bit risky for the dog too IMO unless the person doing it is super fussy about hygiene.

[LizT]

Well I'll continue doing as I've been with regards to his "Puppy toilet training".

I'm not expecting miracles with the desexing, just hoping that when the hormones eventually subside it might contribute to the big "house training" picture.

What I did yesterday though is AFTER he had been outside and thoroughly toileted. I let him have free run of the same areas our dogs do in the house but I tied a flannel cloth nappy around his middle over his boy bit. Then when he went to cock his leg I said "Arrrahhh"!! and he stopped, this happened three times and I'm hoping he will get the idea without it leaving any scent to encourage further marking.

I am willing to give him as long as it takes but I don't know how long I have?? This has not been made clear to me so I must find out. The three others that were liberated at the same time as him (one male, two females) have already been desexed and two of them are just waiting for their stitches to heal before rehoming.

I want the best possible outcome for this little guy.

[sas]

I think you're giving him an opportunity to make a mistake.

I would put him on a lead before he gets out of the crate and lead him to where you want to go and praise.

Taking him out every 1-2 hours when you're home, not that an adult needs to go that often however at least for the 1st week it helps to cement what you want, it's a method that works well for us anyway.

If the dog has come from an environment where the toileting arrangements have been really dicey it could take a longer period of time.

The most important thing is setting the dog up for success.

Edited December 28, 2010 by sas

[LizT]

I think you're giving him an opportunity to make a mistake.

I would put him on a lead before he gets out of the crate and lead him to where you want to go and praise.

Taking him out every 1-2 hours when you're home, not that an adult needs to go that often however at least for the 1st week it helps to cement what you want, it's a method that works well for us anyway.

If the dog has come from an environment where the toileting arrangements have been really dicey it could take a longer period of time.

The most important thing is setting the dog up for success.

Have been doing that and also letting him off lead in the garden AFTER he has toileted for some "play time" with the others and us.

He also gets taken for little walks and I used the belly band last night so he could safely have some "family time" with the rest of us but was corrected when he decided he might like to try to lift his leg on the coffee table. He has very little muscle tone so I'd like to see him out of the crate for more periods. That said I leave it open and he has access to it so when he's had enough of us he can go back there. I then take off the belly band and close the crate. He is always lead out to toilet, in the first few days he tried to dawdle and sniff a few potential spots but now he walks in front of me to the door.