Communication

[corvus]

I've been reading Steven Lindsay's books lately, and while I am tremendously grateful that someone basically did a literature review on dogs, learning, emotion, drives, and many subtle aspects of animal behaviour, I have to say I find his writing really painful. I do not find it easy to follow or understand. Sometimes I'm halfway through a section before I start to realise where he's going with it and have to go back a few paragraphs to re-read all the stuff that didn't make sense to me before. I think his work is very valuable, but how valuable is it, really, if it's difficult to take in? Have other people here got a lot out of it? I know maybe two or three people that ever even mention some of the major concepts he bases most of his methods on.

In contrast, I have a book called "Right on Target" that is so simple a child could follow it. I doubt anyone could summarise all the theory Lindsay does in a way that children could understand, but I wonder which book is really more useful to dog trainers and owners in the end? I wonder how useful all Lindsay's hard work is in the scheme of things.

[Cosmolo]

I find it really really hard too Corvus. Could you tell me who the author of the othr book is? I have not heard of it before and would love to have a read.

[corvus]

I read out a sentence of Volume 1 at random to my partner the other day and he started screaming halfway through it. I really wish he wouldn't use almost exclusively words with 3 syllables or more! I used to have a lecturer that would talk like that and it drove me crazy. It would take a few seconds to gather what he was talking about and by then you'd missed half of the next thing he was saying.

Right on Target is by Mandy Book and Cheryl Smith. It's only about target training, but I love how easy it is to follow. Target training can be the basis of so many behaviours, so if you can get that down, the sky is the limit. This book makes it possible for anyone who can read to get the basics of target training down. Even teaches the more difficult targets, like hip targeting.

[luvsdogs]

I went to the APDT conference a couple of months ago & one of the speakers said much the same thing. I've been using it to teach leg weaves & didn't realise it was so versatile.

[corvus]

Steve White did a talk on targets. I was the one that tried (very badly) to explain to the room how I'd taught my dog to hip target. Speaking of communication...

[Cosmolo]

I love targets so that sounds like a good read. They really are very versatile and helpful in so many situations- not just a trick.

[Aidan]

I love reading Lindsay. I'm a sick, sick man.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I love reading Lindsay. I'm a sick, sick man.

And there's a market for you - audio book all three volumes.

[melzawelza]

Haven't read the books but I felt exactly like that about his lectures at the NDTF conference.

[m-j]

Yes they aren't easy reading, the first time I read them I had a dictionary and a veterinary dictionary with me also. I do feel that some parts of the books could have been simplified without loosing much of the content. This is not to say they aren't good books and are worth the struggle to get through and try to understand them. I refer back to them along with other books I have, when I want to confirm a thought or a training program.

QUOTE (Aidan @ 17th Dec 2010 - 05:53 PM)

I love reading Lindsay. I'm a sick, sick man.

And there's a market for you - audio book all three volumes.

I have often thought I would love a few of my books to be audio books so I could just lay back relax and listen.

[corvus]

I love the content. I quite like flipping through textbooks and things that academics have written. Lindsay's books are full of interesting tidbits and theories I didn't know existed but end up being very useful. I just don't like the way it's presented. It feels like wading through treacle. I did find having read some helped at the NDTF conference, though.

Your life's work can be translating Lindsay's life's work for the average person, Aidan. I think it's a shame it's not a bit more user-friendly. I wonder if it won't reach nearly the audience it should purely because it's a pain to read. It is entirely possible to talk about that stuff without giving yourself and everyone else a massive headache.

[Jigsaw]

I like dipping into Lindsay's books!! Although I usually find I am lead far away from where I started as I become further intrigued by something else on the page and keep reading and suddenly much more time than I thought has past. I'm not sure sometimes how much actually sticks in the brain though!

Maybe Aiden could provide a translation on the facing page - like Chaucer's english into modern english!

@ m-j - relax and listen to the mellifluous tones of Aiden extrapolating on Lindsay's tomes in an audio book!

[Staff'n'Toller]

@ m-j - relax and listen to the mellifluous tones of Aiden extrapolating on Lindsay's tomes in an audio book!

I would buy it!! I've never met Aidan btw...

I've put in a request to the publishers for a Kindle format though.

[corvus]

I thought there was a Kindle format? I've got a pdf version of one of them.

[Aidan3]

I'm Tas-may-nee-an and they are very lonnnng boooks. The 38 CD box-set will be available for Christmas. If you play them backwards, you can hear Koehler reading his favourite Christmas cake recipe.

[corvus]

I'm reading Volume 3 again tonight. Sometimes I think he gets a bit carried away with the theory. I'm pretty sure some of the things he states about dogs have never actually been tested. How come I get in trouble for contrasting hares and dogs but he's allowed to apply what science says about people to dogs and no one says a word? *ker-pout*

[Erny]

I'm Tas-may-nee-an and they are very lonnnng boooks. The 38 CD box-set will be available for Christmas. If you play them backwards, you can hear Koehler reading his favourite Christmas cake recipe.

............. that is very funny, Aidan.

I tend to use Lindsay's books more as references, rather than reading straight through. Some people do that (ie read straight through) but I find it easier to retain the knowledge from them by reading timely topics of interest. I do find that it is initially hard going, but I begin to get used to his writing and it gets a bit easier the more I go along. Like Jigsaw, I've spent hours researching something only to find that I've gone completely away from topic because of something interesting that I've stumbled upon in the process. I love that.