oakway Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Are all these very early (6-7 days early) bitches progesterone tested at the time of mating...probably not.Mine don't leave home once they've been mated, personal preference... Hi, No I don't test mine. I leave that to the dogs . I have had people call me and ask for help when the bitch has been tested and given a date and they can't get the dog near the bitch. I just tell them to throw the test away and wait for the dog to say when. Never failed to produce a litter. I just don't see why I should waste my money on tests when so many people have problems with the test and can't convince the dog to mate on the day the vet said. And yes, my bitches are usually home when known to be in whelp just the same as the rest of you. As far as I can see nobody is saying that bitches should whelp at shows, what is being said is, if it should happen it's no big deal, all of us can be caught off guard at some time or other and there may be a very good reason for it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 As far as I can see nobody is saying that bitches should whelp at shows, what is being said is, if it should happen it's no big deal, all of us can be caught off guard at some time or other and there may be a very good reason for it. And what some are saying is that it is impossible to be "caught off guard" if you don't take in-whelp bitches to shows and that they can't think of any "good" reasons for it to happen. I keep the entire pack away from strange dogs (dog shows, trials, off-leash parks etc) once a bitch is mated. Though I don't think it's the worst thing in the world, I don't like seeing dogs in whelp at shows and certainly not whelping at shows. DogsQld have a rule against it now and I'm happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 As far as I can see nobody is saying that bitches should whelp at shows, what is being said is, if it should happen it's no big deal, all of us can be caught off guard at some time or other and there may be a very good reason for it. And what some are saying is that it is impossible to be "caught off guard" if you don't take in-whelp bitches to shows and that they can't think of any "good" reasons for it to happen. I keep the entire pack away from strange dogs (dog shows, trials, off-leash parks etc) once a bitch is mated. Though I don't think it's the worst thing in the world, I don't like seeing dogs in whelp at shows and certainly not whelping at shows. DogsQld have a rule against it now and I'm happy with that. Yes we all know the rule but it does not apply to a Public Place. We all know the Controlling Bodies have rules and regulations but lets call them the Company's rules and regulations but some are not cast in stone and we all know the company may have laws but they are not the laws of the land and the Laws Of the Land Prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Genuine question for you Oakway; assuming you are a member of on ANKC body, why? If you do not wish to follow all of the regulations of the organisation, why would you sign your name each year saying you will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 In my world there's one rule, once mated - no shows.It's appalling to think of bitches in whelp and actually whelping at a show, for dog's sake its a dog show - not life & death if you miss a couple. fifi edited to add words +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Genuine question for you Oakway; assuming you are a member of on ANKC body, why? If you do not wish to follow all of the regulations of the organisation, why would you sign your name each year saying you will? Possible because I may be aware of the law than most. Anyway why would I want to break any rules or regulations. I have never been before the breeches committee. Why would any person deliberately set out to want to break the rules. There is big difference in knowing what is right or wrong, than putting it into practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 (edited) I don't understand your point then. So what are you saying below? It read to me like you were saying the ANKC (or DogsQld if that's all it is) rule didn't matter/didn't need to be followed because it is not legally enforceable. Yes we all know the rule but it does not apply to a Public Place. We all know the Controlling Bodies have rules and regulations but lets call them the Company's rules and regulations but some are not cast in stone and we all know the company may have laws but they are not the laws of the land and the Laws Of the Land Prevail. Edited December 17, 2010 by molasseslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I don't understand your point then. So what are you saying below? It read to me like you were saying the ANKC (or DogsQld if that's all it is) rule didn't matter/didn't need to be followed because it is not legally enforceable. Yes we all know the rule but it does not apply to a Public Place. We all know the Controlling Bodies have rules and regulations but lets call them the Company's rules and regulations but some are not cast in stone and we all know the company may have laws but they are not the laws of the land and the Laws Of the Land Prevail. It means that honest people don't break them. ;) We oblige Dogs Qld. by not breaking them and causing a problem. But knowing what is legal and what is not is sometimes no weight to bare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 No other dogs other than those entered should be on the grounds anyway, so rule broken there... This is a rule? In which state? Here, there are always dogs around that aren't entered. Especially baby puppies getting socialised before their first show... I know of heaps of people (myself included) who bring along companion dogs to shows, provided there is room in their trolley or gazebo what's the problem? Not taking up any more space, especially compared to those who find it necessary to place a large puppy pen up with only one Baby Puppy in it. Back to original thread, with my first bitch bred I brought her along at 5 weeks because I wanted a mentors opinion of how she was coming along. After that she stayed home in an old fashion 'confinement" LOL She actually whelped on the day I had entered a Show (for a different dog of course) but I was not planning to go in any case as she was 'definitely pregnant and it was way to close for me to even consider leaving her side. I had done the entry in her early stages before she was confirmed pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordz Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I cant imagine having your bitch whelping at a show - how stressful that must be for her, a public place - other dogs around - noise...their senses are so heightened during whelping - for some it must be terrible. Stay Home - simple - the same bits of satin and glassware will be available the next weekend. Justine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 (edited) DOGSNSW Regulations part 11 SHOW section 1 1:15 Any bitch that is more than 6 weeks pregnant is NOT permitted to be on any Showground during the period commencing 24 hours before the starting time of any show or other event approved by the Board of Directors, ending 24 hours after the completion of that show or event. So unless your bitch whelps 3 weeks early, rules are broken are they not?? I would not think anyone could be that far out with the dates/mating...... I should not think puppies born that early would survive !!! Edited December 17, 2010 by Mandalay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Are all these very early (6-7 days early) bitches progesterone tested at the time of mating...probably not.Mine don't leave home once they've been mated, personal preference... agreed, mine don't leave home once mated except for the vet. I'm disgusted that with some people a show is more important than a nice comfortable whelping for your bitch, AND puppies. Don't breed your bitch if you can't stay home and miss a few shows!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I would not risk this happening at all. I am imagine it would be VERY unsettling for a bitch to be whelping in foreign surrounds with unkown and multiple interlopers. I do not think whelping puppies into an environment that is likely to have many viruses and possible diseases circulating is a very smart move either. While I don't think that bitches must stay home and not go anywhere I wouldn't be taking them to a place with a huge amount of dog traffic, and I would not be showing them or taking them to a show from when I found out that they were pregnant. I had a dog pick up a nasty gastro at a show, I wouldn't risk that happening to my pregnant bitch. I would stay home from showing and if it was needed from a couple weeks before she was due "just" incase she went early, then so be it. Babies should be born at home in a nice quiet low stress, low disease load environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 (edited) Bitches go into labour early and nobody is disputing that. But it's only a matter of a couple of weeks either way - not exactly a difficult target to avoid. A bitch who CHOOSES to whelp in the dirt under the DARK, QUIET porch (fairly close to natural circumstances) cannot be compared to being a dog show, being surrounded by the sights and smells of hundreds of other dogs, bitches in season, entire dogs etc. A dog show is like a cocktail of pheromones and noise. It surprises me that a bitch could easily whelp at a dog show and I'd be surprised if that is where she went into labour. I'd theorise that any bitch who whelps at a dog show was well into labour before she arrived. There are good reasons why mammals usually whelp at night. Edited December 18, 2010 by blacklabrador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Bitches go into labour early and nobody is disputing that. But it's only a matter of a couple of weeks either way - not exactly a difficult target to avoid.A bitch who CHOOSES to whelp in the dirt under the DARK, QUIET porch (fairly close to natural circumstances) cannot be compared to being a dog show, being surrounded by the sights and smells of hundreds of other dogs, bitches in season, entire dogs etc. A dog show is like a cocktail of pheromones and noise. It surprises me that a bitch could easily whelp at a dog show and I'd be surprised if that is where she went into labour. I'd theorise that any bitch who whelps at a dog show was well into labour before she arrived. There are good reasons why mammals usually whelp at night. yes, this whole thing has made me furious, just thinking "breeders" would be so inconsiderate to the needs of their dogs.. They need to get their priorities right, absolutely terrifying for a poor bitch in labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show? Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show? OMG .. no, I don't think that was suggested .. nobody would be that stupid (I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show?Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)? I do have to say my bitch was flown from interstate, I met the breeder at the show, picked her up, she was shown and three days later had a pup. The bitch was returned as she was xrayed as not being pregnant, and due to the fact she had VERY convincing phantoms there was nothing unusual about the large boobs. There was only one pup. So I guess it could have been me! I would never have had her there if I had of known, and she wouldn't have been flown back if the breeder had known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Are all these very early (6-7 days early) bitches progesterone tested at the time of mating...probably not.Mine don't leave home once they've been mated, personal preference... Yes my girl was progesterone tested the day after she was mated. I was told I had probably missed her! At 6 weeks she was u-sounded to confirm pregancy. Ended up carrying 9 pups. She went early due to a bloodclot cutting off the supply to one of the horns, lost 3 pups and barely got the 6 remaining to pull through. They were truly 6 days early, good in size but short on coat. We think she went early due to an injury at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 (edited) Call me neurotic but my girls dont leave the property when pregnant -I dont show when a bitch has puppies because of concern that I might bring something home and I rarely show in summer - like now when Parvo is so prevelant given the heat and rain. Which is means I dont show much and it takes a thousand years to get 100 points but you get that in big jobs - the health of my girls come first! Blacklabrador - your 'Elve's' are just adorable! Edited December 18, 2010 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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