Whelping At Shows

[SpikesPuppy]

Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show?

Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)?

I do have to say my bitch was flown from interstate, I met the breeder at the show, picked her up, she was shown and three days later had a pup.

The bitch was returned as she was xrayed as not being pregnant, and due to the fact she had VERY convincing phantoms there was nothing unusual about the large boobs. There was only one pup. So I guess it could have been me!

I would never have had her there if I had of known, and she wouldn't have been flown back if the breeder had known.

Yep I know of a bitch who was confirmed not pregnant who ended up with 3 pups! Her owner came home from a dog show (the bitch hadn't been entered due to the possibility of being pregnant) to find 3 pups and a happy bitch in the backyard!! So not whelped at a show but could have been quite easily. This bitch also was a classic with milk boobs and false pregnancies!

Quick question to those who keep the bitch at home from mating- how do you exercise her? Or do you have a large yard/property to run her on?

[Bokezu]

Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show?

Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)?

I do have to say my bitch was flown from interstate, I met the breeder at the show, picked her up, she was shown and three days later had a pup.

The bitch was returned as she was xrayed as not being pregnant, and due to the fact she had VERY convincing phantoms there was nothing unusual about the large boobs. There was only one pup. So I guess it could have been me!

I would never have had her there if I had of known, and she wouldn't have been flown back if the breeder had known.

Yep I know of a bitch who was confirmed not pregnant who ended up with 3 pups! Her owner came home from a dog show (the bitch hadn't been entered due to the possibility of being pregnant) to find 3 pups and a happy bitch in the backyard!! So not whelped at a show but could have been quite easily. This bitch also was a classic with milk boobs and false pregnancies!

Quick question to those who keep the bitch at home from mating- how do you exercise her? Or do you have a large yard/property to run her on?

I have property to run her on, pups are two weeks old now, but she won't be going anywhere until they are 8 weeks old. I also have refused puppy buyers a visit that want to come and visit puppies, they have to wait until after 6 weeks. I am not that fussy at all, just very careful when it comes to my bitches and puppies

[OSoSwift]

Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show?

Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)?

I do have to say my bitch was flown from interstate, I met the breeder at the show, picked her up, she was shown and three days later had a pup.

The bitch was returned as she was xrayed as not being pregnant, and due to the fact she had VERY convincing phantoms there was nothing unusual about the large boobs. There was only one pup. So I guess it could have been me!

I would never have had her there if I had of known, and she wouldn't have been flown back if the breeder had known.

Yep I know of a bitch who was confirmed not pregnant who ended up with 3 pups! Her owner came home from a dog show (the bitch hadn't been entered due to the possibility of being pregnant) to find 3 pups and a happy bitch in the backyard!! So not whelped at a show but could have been quite easily. This bitch also was a classic with milk boobs and false pregnancies!

Quick question to those who keep the bitch at home from mating- how do you exercise her? Or do you have a large yard/property to run her on?

I have a large property and only take my dogs to town for training and just to give them something else to look at really. I take them to the beach as well but we have lots of beach and if there are other people their we quite often move to another spot with no other people or dogs. I have no need in the exercise department to take them off my property

[SpikesPuppy]

Is it suggested that the bitch who was whelping was entered in the show?

Or was it that the breeder had taken along her pregnant bitch to keep an eye on her (rather than the dog being entered)?

I do have to say my bitch was flown from interstate, I met the breeder at the show, picked her up, she was shown and three days later had a pup.

The bitch was returned as she was xrayed as not being pregnant, and due to the fact she had VERY convincing phantoms there was nothing unusual about the large boobs. There was only one pup. So I guess it could have been me!

I would never have had her there if I had of known, and she wouldn't have been flown back if the breeder had known.

Yep I know of a bitch who was confirmed not pregnant who ended up with 3 pups! Her owner came home from a dog show (the bitch hadn't been entered due to the possibility of being pregnant) to find 3 pups and a happy bitch in the backyard!! So not whelped at a show but could have been quite easily. This bitch also was a classic with milk boobs and false pregnancies!

Quick question to those who keep the bitch at home from mating- how do you exercise her? Or do you have a large yard/property to run her on?

I have a large property and only take my dogs to town for training and just to give them something else to look at really. I take them to the beach as well but we have lots of beach and if there are other people their we quite often move to another spot with no other people or dogs. I have no need in the exercise department to take them off my property

See for those of us who live in suburbia we don't really have much choice where we excercise our pregnant girls. My dogs don't always get walks but have lots of playtime in the yard etc and are quite fit but when my girl was pregnant she was walked several times each day because it was drummed into me the importance of having a fit bitch during the whelping and after about 4-5 weeks I didn't want her engaging in the rough and tumble, launching off platforms and furniture etc that they usually do. Body slamming doesn't seem appropriate for a pregnant bitch lol.

[OSoSwift]

I agree in your circumstance that I would take my dog out for walks.

I would avoid dog parks, training shows etc.

Around here I have to be careful as Rommi goes hard and puts her body on the line and doesn't always pull it off. So the lead walks would increase and the free body slamming play decrease as well. But I can go for a good 6 km walk and not leave the property. I consider myself very lucky, although it does have its down sides, like my closest show/trial being 475kms away

[SpikesPuppy]

Lol Ososwift. Ziva is the same- has absolutely no regard for her body at the best of times!! Right up until whelping she wanted to zoom and leap around. Wasn't fun trying to keep her 'safe' ence the increase in walks- was the only way to stop her going mad!

[Miss B]

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

[Sayly]

I agree in your circumstance that I would take my dog out for walks.

I would avoid dog parks, training shows etc.

This is what we did with our two pregnant girls as we are within town limits and while we have a bit of land they only really use it when we throw the ball and that ends up in body slams and faceplants!

We ended up with one bitch losing the litter, suspected herpes and the other having a healthy, happy litter. :rolleyes: 2nd bitch whelped at her breeders, 1st bitch had an emergency c-section and all pups had been dead for several weeks.

ETA: I won't take a mated/suspected pregnant bitch to a dog show or where there is a high chance of other dog activity.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Lyndsay

[SilverHaze]

Dare i say, we took at bitch who was 7 weeks pregnant away with us for a week long trip to our biggest race of the year. This race is up at the snow, so she travelled in the car, slept in the trailer in the garage of our chalet, and really her life did not change much from when she was at home. She would have been more stressed being left at home without all her pack or her mum, than she was travelling to a race as per normal. She got walks around the resort everyday, got to free run (well trot) with her pack in the tennis court, and generally continued life as normal. She wasn't taken around other peoples dogs, but that doesn't mean she didn't go places they didn't. She was happy and healthy and we were home with a week to spare before she was due.

I guess its a case of being sensible, and weighing up the pros and cons of how stressful it is to a bitch to change her lifestyle.

We usually book our race accommodation months if not a year in advance, and our bitch of course came into season early - as they do!

Edited December 19, 2010 by SilverHaze

[OSoSwift]

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

And I agree with you. My bitch was checked by vets and xrayed a day before she flew back and was told no puppies in there. The day after I got her home I had a nagging feeling and I should have listened. Lesson learnt I will go with my gut feelings from now on - they are usually right- and it will not happen again.

The only reason she was in the show was a friend was going to show her bitch, the breeder was going to the show as well and we met up (750kms drive for me, interstate flight for the breeder). She was carrying a little more weight when I picked her up but the breeder has more weight on his bitches than I do and she wasn't getting as much exercise, She had a waist and a tuck up.

I was not happy when I woke up to a puppy at 5.30am the Wednesday morning!

[Jed]

Watching the many posts that have been on DOL - I am compelled to comment......

Firstly, It absolutely staggers me that there are people on DOL who know of others who have had bitches whelping at shows or even taking litters of pups only weeks old to shows.

Secondly another thread here is that breeders agree with the idea of breeding half brother to half sister or father daughter etc..... In fact numous people on this thread are stating that they have these matings already happening or expecting anyday.....

Are these the people who are considered the experienced and respected breeders of our dog community. The breeders from the 70's and 80's were prepared to line breed say 3:3. and it was completely frowned upon to consider things closer. These older breeders produced type and substance as well as good temperaments. There have been many times on DOL when we have seen how the 'showie' community are extremely judgemental about those who breed but do not show.......

Draw your own conclusions........

AlphaBet, the most successful breeders of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s line bred, and produced some beautiful dogs which bred on. However, I would be pleased if you could link to scientifically proven studies showing that breeding to the 2nd generation is detrimental to the breed?

Celiidh

In our world once a bitch is mated she stays home. I believe there is absolutely NO reason to have a bitch who is ready to whelp at a show. She deserves to have a comfortable, familiar, stress free place to have her babies! If showing is THAT important to you then DON'T breed, you don't deserve to have that responsibility. JMHO!

X 2g

People who take bitches who are whelping, or about to whelp to shows perhaps should consider their priorities - is a win more important than the whelping bitch and the welfare of the whelps? She might might whelp 2 - 4 times in her life - there is a show nearly every weekend, which is more important? Whelping bitches have psychological needs too - they need a quiet, safe dark secure place to whelp. 'Breeders' who do not understand what is required should perhaps consider their continuatiion as breeders'.

And I am not talking about times when the bitches whelp early, or catch the breeder off guard. I am talking about when births are imminent, or taking place, and the breeder wont pass up on a show for the good of the bitch.

Up until somewhere in the late 60s, ALL dogs entered for shows were examined by a vet prior to entry onto the show grounds. Dogs were checked to ensure they were not in season, not heavily in whelp, and not sick.

Maybe we need that again?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jed

[SpikesPuppy]

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

The bitch I mentioned was ultrasounded at 4 weeks and x rayed the week before she whelped. Neither showed anything.

I took my bitch 6 and a half weeks pregnant to the New Years Eve show last year, was much better for her to be in the familiar show environment than at home with the next door neighbors shooting off fireworks. Was going to stay home but remembering the neighbors behavior from the previous year decided it was much better to be at KCC. my dogs don't usually care about fireworks but when they are 5 meters away it does stress them.

[Miss B]

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

And I agree with you. My bitch was checked by vets and xrayed a day before she flew back and was told no puppies in there. The day after I got her home I had a nagging feeling and I should have listened. Lesson learnt I will go with my gut feelings from now on - they are usually right- and it will not happen again.

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

The bitch I mentioned was ultrasounded at 4 weeks and x rayed the week before she whelped. Neither showed anything.

Sorry guys, wasn't referring to you specifically! Hope I didn't come across the wrong way :rolleyes:

[angelsun]

May I ask why some of you suspect your bitch to be in less risk taking her for good long walks on public footpaths compared to a show grounds or other such place? This falls in line with the Parvo issue where many beleive that they can't pick it up on simple errands to a shop for example, walking where an infected or carrying host may have sat tied to the post waiting for its master?

Again I stress I don't think whelping at shows should be condoned, however there are always situations that many do not know, and no, it's not always black and white in these things.

I've taken my share of preggy girls along, because they were far less stressed by being with me and coddled than left at home with my very competant son who's whelped litters before, many times. I do my best to figure out when the bitches are due but for example we have now, a bitch we feel is due, but have no real clue as to when. We have a window of about 10 days based on AI's and natural matings, simply because she leveled out (we feel, not based on actual progesterone testing however) but on days in season, and the males nose. Even just going by the count on days she was mated naturally, we have over a week of unsurity as to actual delivery date.

As for the rule about no bitches over six weeks pregnant being to shows.....we don't ultrasound the big girls, and most of our girls don't show until they are at least 7-8 weeks as they are deep ribbed and carry high....to look at our girl at six weeks from the first mating, you would no indication she was pregnant what so ever. Will we be soon required to prove our bitches are NOT pregnant to be permitted to have them at show grounds?

Although there are always exceptions to the rule, the majority of people that show/breed are more than competant to know whether they should be there in the first place or not.....the high number of posts have indicated that in this thread alone. Because they choose to do things one way, will they chastise anyone that does not abide by their practices?

I have no issues with visitors for my new pups, and yes, my breed is very suceptable to Parvo, however the benefits of socializing with strangers in my opinion, far outweigh any possible risk due to my vaccine protocols. Because this does not go along with some people (my OH included) that will allow no visitors before the first injection, will I be painted with the incompetant brush?

[OSoSwift]

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

And I agree with you. My bitch was checked by vets and xrayed a day before she flew back and was told no puppies in there. The day after I got her home I had a nagging feeling and I should have listened. Lesson learnt I will go with my gut feelings from now on - they are usually right- and it will not happen again.

If I had a bitch who was having a possible phantom, I think I'd have an u/s done for peace of mind.

I would not be taking a "possibly" 7/8 week pregnant bitch to a dog show. JMHO.

The bitch I mentioned was ultrasounded at 4 weeks and x rayed the week before she whelped. Neither showed anything.

Sorry guys, wasn't referring to you specifically! Hope I didn't come across the wrong way :rolleyes:

No was saying I guess that the odd one can slip through, however I would not knowingly do it as I do not think it is the right environment for a bitch to whelp in.

[Bokezu]

No definately not incompetant Angelsun, you are willing to take that risk, I am not. I guess because there is parvo around atm is a bit unsettling. Everyone has different ideas on these things, I don't breed often so I am very careful when I do.

[Gayle.]

So, some of you would also think that once a woman is pregnant she should not leave the grounds of her home other than for check ups.

Come on now, plenty of pups have been born under the house in the dirt and mother and pups have done well.

Plenty of babies also born in vehicles on the way to hospital.

Whats wrong with being born a show ground. Plenty of experienced people to lend a hand and who's dogs aren't vaccinated.

Flawed logic, the pregnant woman chooses where to go, the dog doesn't.

Plenty wrong.....other dogs around would be completely stressful for the bitch, way too much noise and coming and going. I can't imagine a worse place for a bitch to be whelping a littler of puppies unless it's in the middle of a shopping centre during the Christmas rush.

[Parkeyre]

So, some of you would also think that once a woman is pregnant she should not leave the grounds of her home other than for check ups.

Come on now, plenty of pups have been born under the house in the dirt and mother and pups have done well.

Plenty of babies also born in vehicles on the way to hospital.

Whats wrong with being born a show ground. Plenty of experienced people to lend a hand and who's dogs aren't vaccinated.

Flawed logic, the pregnant woman chooses where to go, the dog doesn't.

Plenty wrong.....other dogs around would be completely stressful for the bitch, way too much noise and coming and going. I can't imagine a worse place for a bitch to be whelping a littler of puppies unless it's in the middle of a shopping centre during the Christmas rush.

Well said!!

[sas]

I'll face the firing squad.

We did it once.

She was in the car in the back with me for the 4 minute drive to the show grounds. It was a small show, less than 50 dogs and she never left the trailer once we arrived. Great puppies too. Not an issue with any of them and mum was comfortable and whelped freely. If it had been an ordinary show we wouldn't have considered it but it was a specialty we didn't want to miss.

*flame suit engaged

Well I find it interesting that no one has responded to this one.

I personaly think it's disgusting, your priorities are %$%&

I hope you got the ribbon you were after.

[ingrid]

I have to agree. Once mated no shows.

GASP - I totally agree - can not see any possible reason for this to happen - bitches whelping at shows, surely it would come under irresponsible pet ownership! To all those it has happened to I would say - either rethink your priorities or get a life. Like to see the owners giving birth at a show - sure it would be hygienic, comfortable and stress free! Perhaps they should test their theories themselves and find out. After all the dogs can hardly complain!