Seems Its Not Just Mandatory Desexing

[OSoSwift]

Good point Souff. They will not be wanting to "dob" in breeding partners and friends!

[Frenchfire Frenchies]

Heya just in reply to SOUFF,

When you said about the Canine Council magazine, that it is done several months in advance and then printed,

Yes I understand this But what should be happening is a letter to members,

This topic was first raised on this site over two months ago. Surely IT COULD HAVE MADE IT WAY INTO A MAG BY NOW?

I think the Canine Council is sitting back with lips sealed, why would they want to scare off NEW BREEDERS PREFIXES & New Memberships? :rolleyes:

We as breeders DESERVE TO HAVE A COMMITTEE WHO WE PAY OUR ANNUAL FEES TO, WHO CARE FOR ITS MEMBERS Just as we agree to abide by their code of ethics they too should owe us the same!

How do we get the word out there?

Every breeder I talk to says, well, if it was to happen, How would the councils police it? Through the Newspapers, sites like this one, Council registrations,

They say, There isn`t enough staff to do what would be required They don`t believe it will happen.

What if it does go through?? Then we are stuffed!

[Souff]

Heya just in reply to SOUFF,

When you said about the Canine Council magazine, that it is done several months in advance and then printed,

Yes I understand this But what should be happening is a letter to members,

This topic was first raised on this site over two months ago. Surely IT COULD HAVE MADE IT WAY INTO A MAG BY NOW?

I think the Canine Council is sitting back with lips sealed, why would they want to scare off NEW BREEDERS PREFIXES & New Memberships? :rolleyes:

We as breeders DESERVE TO HAVE A COMMITTEE WHO WE PAY OUR ANNUAL FEES TO, WHO CARE FOR ITS MEMBERS Just as we agree to abide by their code of ethics they too should owe us the same!

How do we get the word out there?

Every breeder I talk to says, well, if it was to happen, How would the councils police it? Through the Newspapers, sites like this one, Council registrations,

They say, There isn`t enough staff to do what would be required They don`t believe it will happen.

What if it does go through?? Then we are stuffed!

Well if it was raised 2 months ago, then I agree with you. It should have been in print to members by now.

Souff

[sandgrubber]

Santa Cruz County, in California, has had mandatory desexing since 1985. You can keep entire dogs here, but to do so legally, you need to get a permit and pay a bit more for registration. The whip is coupled with a carrot . .. heavy subsidy for low income people who want to do spey/neuter for their dogs/cats. This has had the desired effect of cutting back on pound populations.

The legislation is widely ignored. Many breeders continue to do their breeding without permits. In poorer suburbs, it's not uncommon to see a stray (usually a chihuahua X) with conspicuous boy bits roaming the street. The county is cash-strapped, and the rules only seem to get pulled out when dogs are being a nuisance. It's not clear whether the mandatory desexing or the subsidised spey/neuter programs has been more effective in reducing impoundment rates. I think studies have found that subsidies on spey/neuter, combined with information drives, are more effective among poorer people. (But on such subjects you can usually find studies supporting both sides of the issue).

It's important to consider why there is public support for such proposals. I think the main reason is irresponsibility among dog owners. One: People who don't have dogs, or who are responsible with their pets, deeply resent neighbours who allow their dogs to bark at all hours, do their business on the street, or terrorize people walking or cycling.

Two: most people don't like euthanasia, and in some areas, seen from some perspectives, voluntary spey/neuter is not adequate to prevent large numbers of unwanted dogs.

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

I don't think it's going to be possible to keep mandatory desexing off the agenda in relatively progressive/green/upper middle class [or whatever group it is that pushes for such measures] constituencies without alternative ways to limit irresponsible pet ownership.

I can see what they hope to achieve by mandatory desexing of pet dogs but permits, inspections, licenses for the small average hobby breed/show people what is that going to achieve ?

The people with a few cats or dogs who breed occasionally, stick to the code of ethics & most registered cat breeders desex kittens before they leave for new homes anyway, are not the largest part of the problem re welfare, stray & dumping issues.

For small hobby breeders it would mean getting rid of all our old pets when they are past their use by date or stopping doing it. The expenses & hassle involved for a hobby would not be worth it all.

That would leave just the commercial large scale enterprises.

How is this going to help ? :D

I can't understand at all.

Edited December 19, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Souff]

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

Hi there,

I have had that quotation on my DOL posts for a long time now but I might change it now. Thanks for the prompt.

I see a lot of very sad people and situations and I see what joy that babies (of any kind) can bring. Every time I take a puppy out somewhere with me, I see faces light up. The same can be said of a kitten, or a chicken, or of a human baby. New lives do bring joy to people.

I do not go around touting that everyone should buy a puppy. When I have bred and sold puppies ( in very small numbers) I am always very careful who they are sold to and I still hear from the buyers of those puppies many years later.

But I do like to spread a little joy in a world that already has too much sadness. We cannot buy happiness (as an individual component) but if we commit to sharing 15 years of our lives to caring for a puppy/dog then we can indeed be buying 15 years of happiness and have many great memories to carry through after that.

btw it is not a quotation that I have used anywhere else.

I hope your Christmas season is full of joy and if you have any little puppies in your life at the moment, that they bring you much joy too.

Souff

Edited December 19, 2010 by Souff

[raz]

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

Interesting point you raise there sandgrubber, because there was a thread yesterday where breeders were accused of being elitist snobs for having a concern about where their puppies end up and whether the owner/the owner's property is suitable for a particular breed. So how can breeders do more without stepping on toes? Serious question - I cant see how they can win.

[Souff]

Ok here it is .... testing, testing!

The new sig is launched .... pity it is so early in the morning it might have been a good excuse to raise a toast!

Coffee will have to suffice :D

[Souff]

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

Interesting point you raise there sandgrubber, because there was a thread yesterday where breeders were accused of being elitist snobs for having a concern about where their puppies end up and whether the owner/the owner's property is suitable for a particular breed. So how can breeders do more without stepping on toes? Serious question - I cant see how they can win.

One of the things that breeders can do is to give preference to buyers who have had a dog for many years and it has recently died and they are missing having a dog around the place.

Those buyers have already shown their long term commitment to dogs.

If people have never owned a dog before I often suggest doing foster care work first. Many decline which I find sad, but then fostering is not for everyone.

Souff

[sandgrubber]

Hi

Thanks for not taking offense . . . much improved. I agree with the original sentiment . . . puppies are great for bringing a smile and making the heart go pitter pat.

I think it's the puppy farmers who most try to convince people that buying a puppy will bring happiness . . . and don't heed the responsibility that must go along with that joy. I know you're not one of them.

As for stepping on toes. Sometimes its hard not to. But I think there are ways to select puppy buyers that aren't snobbish and still consider the welfare of the dog throughout its life. . . and that make sure, when you do make a mistake and select the wrong household, the people feel they will have the support of the breeder in finding a new home for the pup.

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

Hi there,

I have had that quotation on my DOL posts for a long time now but I might change it now. Thanks for the prompt.

I see a lot of very sad people and situations and I see what joy that babies (of any kind) can bring. Every time I take a puppy out somewhere with me, I see faces light up. The same can be said of a kitten, or a chicken, or of a human baby. New lives do bring joy to people.

I do not go around touting that everyone should buy a puppy. When I have bred and sold puppies ( in very small numbers) I am always very careful who they are sold to and I still hear from the buyers of those puppies many years later.

But I do like to spread a little joy in a world that already has too much sadness. We cannot buy happiness (as an individual component) but if we commit to sharing 15 years of our lives to caring for a puppy/dog then we can indeed be buying 15 years of happiness and have many great memories to carry through after that.

btw it is not a quotation that I have used anywhere else.

I hope your Christmas season is full of joy and if you have any little puppies in your life at the moment, that they bring you much joy too.

Souff

Edited December 19, 2010 by sandgrubber

[raz]

Right on time, sandgrubber. Bub has started a thread along these lines up in general.

[Souff]

Hi

Thanks for not taking offense . . . much improved. I agree with the original sentiment . . . puppies are great for bringing a smile and making the heart go pitter pat.

I think it's the puppy farmers who most try to convince people that buying a puppy will bring happiness . . . and don't heed the responsibility that must go along with that joy. I know you're not one of them.

As for stepping on toes. Sometimes its hard not to. But I think there are ways to select puppy buyers that aren't snobbish and still consider the welfare of the dog throughout its life. . . and that make sure, when you do make a mistake and select the wrong household, the people feel they will have the support of the breeder in finding a new home for the pup.

Btw, the quote at the bottom the previous post: "Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." is part of the problem. Breeders MUST do more to ensure that they sell puppies only to people who will care for the adult dog as well as the cute puppy.

Hi there,

I have had that quotation on my DOL posts for a long time now but I might change it now. Thanks for the prompt.

I see a lot of very sad people and situations and I see what joy that babies (of any kind) can bring. Every time I take a puppy out somewhere with me, I see faces light up. The same can be said of a kitten, or a chicken, or of a human baby. New lives do bring joy to people.

I do not go around touting that everyone should buy a puppy. When I have bred and sold puppies ( in very small numbers) I am always very careful who they are sold to and I still hear from the buyers of those puppies many years later.

But I do like to spread a little joy in a world that already has too much sadness. We cannot buy happiness (as an individual component) but if we commit to sharing 15 years of our lives to caring for a puppy/dog then we can indeed be buying 15 years of happiness and have many great memories to carry through after that.

btw it is not a quotation that I have used anywhere else.

I hope your Christmas season is full of joy and if you have any little puppies in your life at the moment, that they bring you much joy too.

Souff

No offence taken at all because I am not guilty of anything but spreading joy in small amounts and I have had it there for too long anyway. Have now refined the new sig a little more.

cheers!

Souff

[Boxerheart]

My vet shows and breeds Dalmations. She was telling me that she vets her buyers, and sold one to a couple with plenty of money, ideal home set up and the promise the dog would be part of the family. One week later they returned.... they had bought a new car...the dog did not mach it, could they have a pup another colour.

...gawd...As long as there are people like that in the world. But I guess Breeders are responsible for the F Wits ?

[~Anne~]

Ok here it is .... testing, testing!

The new sig is launched .... pity it is so early in the morning it might have been a good excuse to raise a toast!

Coffee will have to suffice

I like it.