"shakes Head In Despair"

[WildatHeart]

A person posted on a social networking site that they had Staffie x Cattledogs for sale and that they must go asap and would make a good christmas present. I wrote on there everything from BYBing, why its bad, the amount of cats and dogs in pounds/shelters at this time of year, the vet check and microchipping of puppies yadda yadda.

This is what I got from the mother (that jumped in on her sons behalf) after I accused him of breeding crossbreed dogs, and when she said that she had a maltese and a shitzu (that she breeds all the time) I told her that she was breeding mongrels:

Quote

"They are a two bread dog and can be sold up to the age of 6 weeks without the microchip unless you are a registered breeder or pet shop...if they are not sold by the age of 6 weeks the will have to be microchipped..And just because they are a two breed dog does not make them mongrels....I have a maltese/shitzu and they are not classed as mongrels"

I replied that its unethical selling puppies before 6 weeks. And that the 'breed' is not recognised by the ANKC (not that she would even know what that is)

"Oh ok!...my crossbred pups sell for around 600.00 - 800.00 at the pet store and with breeders. expensive mongrals wouldnt you say. Considering I paid 500.00 for a purebred Labrador...so something is wrong. They may not be a registered breed but they are bred that way because there is a market, I am not a backyard breeder, I have both the male and the female of the breed and everyone wants them. mine had 5 pups and I could have had 20 and that still would not have been enough for the demand....there is nothing wrong with crossbreds."

I'm shocked.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i want to cry

[kinsella]

The saddest thing is how common this is. Rescue material in 6 months - about when the next litter of mongrels hits the ground. They are kindred spirits - knuckle-dragging troglodytes that breed them and kdt that buy them. Pass the tissues, please.

[RubyStar]

While I agree this is sad, it's a battle we will never win Some people just won't get it. For every person that becomes educated and decides to do things the right way (or stop doing things the wrong way), there are another dozen that refuse to become educated, no matter how hard we try.

Rescue material in 6 months

And I'm sorry but I'm so tired of this argument. Just because a puppy buyer doesn't know any better about the right and wrong place to buy their pets (you gotta start somewhere!), doesn't mean their crossbred dog they bought with all the love in the world is going to end up in the pound.

[Diva]

This is what I got from the mother (that jumped in on her sons behalf) after I accused him of breeding crossbreed dogs, and when she said that she had a maltese and a shitzu (that she breeds all the time) I told her that she was breeding mongrels:

Quote

"They are a two bread dog and can be sold up to the age of 6 weeks without the microchip unless you are a registered breeder or pet shop...if they are not sold by the age of 6 weeks the will have to be microchipped..And just because they are a two breed dog does not make them mongrels....I have a maltese/shitzu and they are not classed as mongrels"

Is she saying that she sells them before six weeks to avoid having to microchip them? Surely that is a breach of some welfare statute. It's appalling.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Diva

[WildatHeart]

I'm pretty sure thats what she means by that comment too

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

if we think about smoking as an example.... i am old enough to remember smoking at my office desk.

the non-smokers hated it and nobody cared.

now if i was to light up (i am a non-smoker now) outside not even in a room most people look at me with a frown.

the world can change...so what changed smokers and smoking, i believe it was education

[poodlemum]

if we think about smoking as an example.... i am old enough to remember smoking at my office desk.

the non-smokers hated it and nobody cared.

now if i was to light up (i am a non-smoker now) outside not even in a room most people look at me with a frown.

the world can change...so what changed smokers and smoking, i believe it was education

Exactly - all we can do is keep plugging away & eventually the message will sink in!

[lic_82]

I was speaking to an a fellow classmate the other day and they were saying they are thinking of getting a dog next year. I asked what type. They want a border collie, but something similar would do. I mentioned the Aussie Shepard & the Coolie, they had never heard of either breed. Anyway the conversation progressed, they had no idea about registered breeders or health testing. This guy was the average Joe Blow who liked the look of Border Collies, had little info about the breed but liked the way they looked and had every intention of just getting a puppy either from a petshop or out of the paper. I get the impression that a lot of the general public believe that you only go to a registered breeder if you want a show dog, they just dont know any better Needless to say I gave him a run down on where to look and what to do, fingers crossed he takes what i said on board

[poodlemum]

I was speaking to an a fellow classmate the other day and they were saying they are thinking of getting a dog next year. I asked what type. They want a border collie, but something similar would do. I mentioned the Aussie Shepard & the Coolie, they had never heard of either breed. Anyway the conversation progressed, they had no idea about registered breeders or health testing. This guy was the average Joe Blow who liked the look of Border Collies, had little info about the breed but liked the way they looked and had every intention of just getting a puppy either from a petshop or out of the paper. I get the impression that a lot of the general public believe that you only go to a registered breeder if you want a show dog, they just dont know any better Needless to say I gave him a run down on where to look and what to do, fingers crossed he takes what i said on board

This is why we need to be commenting on Facebook, in letters to the papers, ANYWHERE we can get the message out there that purebred dogs are great pets. If we could also address the ridiculous idea that SOME people on this forum have that breeders who sell their puppies mainly for pets are no better than BYBs it would also go a long way towards eradicating the idea that registered breeders are "elitist"

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I was speaking to an a fellow classmate the other day and they were saying they are thinking of getting a dog next year. I asked what type. They want a border collie, but something similar would do. I mentioned the Aussie Shepard & the Coolie, they had never heard of either breed. Anyway the conversation progressed, they had no idea about registered breeders or health testing. This guy was the average Joe Blow who liked the look of Border Collies, had little info about the breed but liked the way they looked and had every intention of just getting a puppy either from a petshop or out of the paper. I get the impression that a lot of the general public believe that you only go to a registered breeder if you want a show dog, they just dont know any better Needless to say I gave him a run down on where to look and what to do, fingers crossed he takes what i said on board

This is why we need to be commenting on Facebook, in letters to the papers, ANYWHERE we can get the message out there that purebred dogs are great pets. If we could also address the ridiculous idea that SOME people on this forum have that breeders who sell their puppies mainly for pets are no better than BYBs it would also go a long way towards eradicating the idea that registered breeders are "elitist"

:D

[RuralPug]

I will quite agree that although I prefer purebreds myself, there is nothing inherently wrong with crossbreeds (provided that health testing of the parents has been done and decent husbandry has occurred) but there is a hell of a lot wrong with selling puppies 4 or 5 weeks old.

Is it then true that there is a minimum enforceable age before you can sell puppies/kittens if you are (a) a shelter (b) a pet shop or other business (including large scale breeder) or ( c) an ANKC or other ethical body member BUT if you are an unregistered, unaffiliated BYB you can legally SELL puppies and kittens at any age without penalty?

If so, is this true only in QLD or is it true in other states also? :D

If it's not true, then has the facebook posts re the puppies offered for sale been reported to the relevant authorities?

Poor little puppies.

ETF stupid autocorrect of ( c ) to ©

Edited December 15, 2010 by RuralPug

[kinsella]

While I agree this is sad, it's a battle we will never win Some people just won't get it. For every person that becomes educated and decides to do things the right way (or stop doing things the wrong way), there are another dozen that refuse to become educated, no matter how hard we try.

Rescue material in 6 months

And I'm sorry but I'm so tired of this argument. Just because a puppy buyer doesn't know any better about the right and wrong place to buy their pets (you gotta start somewhere!), doesn't mean their crossbred dog they bought with all the love in the world is going to end up in the pound.

Forgive my jaundice but it has been earned. While not every cross bred dog ends up in the pound, neither are all of them bought "with all the love in the world"

For a lot of these dogs are reprehensible crosses and by that I mean dogs with conflicting instincts. These pups are then bought by people with very little dog savvy, just good intentions. A recipe for disaster for all concerned.

[dunnwarren]

Iv'e had more fights then feeds on our local buy, swap and sell with people who are breeding cross bred puppies or are planning on letting their bitch have just one litter because it's the dogs right? Some people just wont listen or choose not too.

[RubyStar]

While I agree this is sad, it's a battle we will never win Some people just won't get it. For every person that becomes educated and decides to do things the right way (or stop doing things the wrong way), there are another dozen that refuse to become educated, no matter how hard we try.

Rescue material in 6 months

And I'm sorry but I'm so tired of this argument. Just because a puppy buyer doesn't know any better about the right and wrong place to buy their pets (you gotta start somewhere!), doesn't mean their crossbred dog they bought with all the love in the world is going to end up in the pound.

Forgive my jaundice but it has been earned. While not every cross bred dog ends up in the pound, neither are all of them bought "with all the love in the world"

For a lot of these dogs are reprehensible crosses and by that I mean dogs with conflicting instincts. These pups are then bought by people with very little dog savvy, just good intentions. A recipe for disaster for all concerned.

Very true, there can be very bad crosses that end up in the wrong hands and can be a recipe for disaster, that I agree with. But in this particular case, these are Maltese x Shih Tzu puppies, hardly a reason for them to end up in the pound just because someone back yard bred them, which was the basis of your original post. I far from advocate BYB, but I just see this blanket statement thrown about all the time about back yard bred dogs automatically going to end up in the pound regardless of their breed (crossbred or otherwise), and it just gets a little tiring to read

Edited December 15, 2010 by RubyStar

[Aussienot]

I think the common link is that the kind of people who don't know any better than to pay big bucks for a cross breed (or bread, as it is commonly misused) are the same people who do no research, do no socialisation, do no training, have no time for the dog, have unrealistic ideas about dog ownership. . .etc, hence once the puppy cuteness has worn off, the dog is disposed of.

A lot of surrendered dogs will have been originally sourced from newspapers, online sites and pet shops. These are the prime market for BYBs and designer dog sellers.

Nothing wrong with choosing to own a cross breed or mutt if you know what your options are. I have one who is lovely, see the pic at left. Something wrong big time with bad breeding, breeding for fashion, careless and ignorant breeding, and producing puppies ONLY for the money.

The exchange of views WildatHeart posted ticked a lot of hot buttons for me. At least in NSW, it is illegal to sell a baby animal under 8 weeks, and they have to be microchipped.

[Debyork2]

Attitudes have changed enormously over the years, 30 or more years ago my mother had a Silky X Pom-a gorgeous dog and really close to the 'perfect' dog, perfect temperament, very intelligent and robust & healthy. Every year she had an 'appointment' with the Aussie Terrier down the road and had a litter of equally gorgeous puppies, these pups were raised with much love and attention and then went off to their new homes-my Mum had a huge waiting list for them and lots of people never got one-mum was fussy about who adopted the 'kids'. If memory serves mum's girl had about four litters and lived a long and happy life, much adored by the whole family.

Now, no one thought there was anything wrong with this in those days, and I, like other posters don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with crossbreeds even tho' I have only had purebreds for the last 30 or so years. I worked in the grooming industry for some time and a large proportion of the dogs that came in were the ubiquitous fluffy crossbred and quite honestly they weren't any better or worse health & temperament wise than the purebreds that came in.

When it all boils down it's the owners that are the problem-it doesn't matter how much or how little people pay for a puppy, there will always be people that neglect & discard dogs-irrespective of them being crossbreds or purebreds, there will always be people who breed litters of pups for all the wrong reasons (not just the BYB's either!), I know I am going to be extremely unpopular for saying this but I think the way puppies are raised is more important than if they are purebred or crossbred-I would rather have a crossbred that was from a much loved family pet, from a litter that was showered with attention than purebred that was raised in a more 'clinical' way. I have had dogs from very well respected breeders that, quite frankly, your average pet owner just wouldn't be able to live with.

I am in no way advocating the breeding of crossbred dogs-or condoning the selling of very young puppies-I just don't think it is quite fair to label everyone who breeds a litter of crossbreds as an unscrupulous, money hungry, ignoramous.

[raz]

I am not a backyard breeder

No? What is she then?

[Agility Dogs]

if we think about smoking as an example.... i am old enough to remember smoking at my office desk.

the non-smokers hated it and nobody cared.

now if i was to light up (i am a non-smoker now) outside not even in a room most people look at me with a frown.

the world can change...so what changed smokers and smoking, i believe it was education

Yes, but in this analogy the manufacturers were not the target of education, it was the smokers who were targetted.

Running around (figuratively) belting people up for cross breeding is only going to give you a headache because it is not in their interests to hear what you are saying.

It is the end user (dog owner) who needs to come to their own conclusion and start to change their behaviour. Cigarette companies are still eeking out a (massive, decreasingly profitable) living and seeking to justify their means and ends - people simply breeding mary lou with peter the pound dog are never going to get it because they are making money from it.

Changing the world one pet owner at a time is what it comes back to and insulting people's intelligence and abusing people who don't see the world the way we do is going to do more harm than good. The only way to effect wholesale change is to find someone with the time, means and energy to lobby governments and start the wheels of change moving. The problem with that approach is whether it is a big enough issue within society for governments to care. Last I checked the streets were not being over run by out of control cross breeds so it is unlikely to get on the radar any time soon.

Sorry, just in a realistic mood this morning - unless someone with far more cash and time than I have decides to champion the cause then everything else is just a myopic dream.

[erinonthefarm]

Was this person asked whether she would take the puppies back if the owners were to be unable to care for them, that this is what REAL responsible breeders offer?

I would assume this lovely person wouldn't hesitate to take all her "non mongrels" back

Good comment Jaxxbuddy re smoking and the changes to puplic opinion on the matter, I hope that things change as drastically for BYB