Rspca - Wtf?

[Staranais]

So, I was looking for some "dog themed" xmas cards to send to the farmers who let me use their land for tracking purposes, & thought I'd give the SPCA a try.

Going to the main NZ SPCA website, I was interested to see a prominent link to "The Online Dog Trainer", which leads to an internet marketing spiel for an "SPCA endorsed" online dog trainer.

http://www.rnzspca.org.nz/

I have never heard of this guy, he doesn't give his full name, and he presents absolutely no credentials or qualifications on the website. However, apparently if you buy his product he'll send you videos that mean "every single problem you could possibly ever have with your dog or puppy is solved" by "teaching you to be the leader of the pack". And best of all, it only costs $1!

(Of course, after the first 7 days, you're charged rather more for the service... $37 per month until you cancel).

WTF? Am I out of touch, or is endorsing this a seriously bizarre and incredibly tacky thing for the SPCA to do? I wonder how much he paid in order to become "endorsed", and if he actually had to sit any kind of competency test to get "endorsed" by the SPCA? I find it very hard to believe that even the best trainer could solve every single problem my dog could possibly ever have without ever seeing my dog...

On top of that, I was further dismayed by the really misinformed diatribe about ecollars. As a horrible mean ecollar user, I think I'm going to be looking elsewhere for my xmas cards this year... ;)

[corvus]

Wow, you'd think he was the RNZSPCA's answer to Cesar Milan. If his marketing were any less subtle I'd be in hospital.

I don't know. I wouldn't put much store in any "endorsement" of trainers, really. It's like Brand Power, helping you buy better.... by telling you what brands to buy. The ones that paid them, presumably. Now endorsement by an independent third party I might pay attention to. If the CHOICE of dog training recommended this guy, I'd go to him regardless of the bludgeoning marketing. Well, maybe. I'd at least consider it seriously.

So the question is, is RNZSPCA an independent third party?

[abed]

Wow, you'd think he was the RNZSPCA's answer to Cesar Milan. If his marketing were any less subtle I'd be in hospital.

I don't know. I wouldn't put much store in any "endorsement" of trainers, really. It's like Brand Power, helping you buy better.... by telling you what brands to buy. The ones that paid them, presumably. Now endorsement by an independent third party I might pay attention to. If the CHOICE of dog training recommended this guy, I'd go to him regardless of the bludgeoning marketing. Well, maybe. I'd at least consider it seriously.

So the question is, is RNZSPCA an independent third party?

I have to be honest to say that I have a problem with traning and behavioural endorsements/qualifications issued by private enterprises like the NDTF, Delta, Bark Busters etc where people completing their courses use these endorsements in marketing to the greater community to portray that they hold a formal and recognised qualification in a similar vein as one would attain as a Tafe College or University graduate achieving a trade or profession. In fact, it's misleading to the public IMHO to believe that these certifications provide an official level of recognised competency in an industry that the public then assume is regulated by legislation which it isn't.

Edited December 12, 2010 by abed

[sas]

Wow, you'd think he was the RNZSPCA's answer to Cesar Milan. If his marketing were any less subtle I'd be in hospital.

I don't know. I wouldn't put much store in any "endorsement" of trainers, really. It's like Brand Power, helping you buy better.... by telling you what brands to buy. The ones that paid them, presumably. Now endorsement by an independent third party I might pay attention to. If the CHOICE of dog training recommended this guy, I'd go to him regardless of the bludgeoning marketing. Well, maybe. I'd at least consider it seriously.

So the question is, is RNZSPCA an independent third party?

I have to be honest to say that I have a problem with traning and behavioural endorsements/qualifications issued by private enterprises like the NDTF, Delta, Bark Busters etc where people completing their courses use these endorsements in marketing to the greater community to portray that they hold a formal and recognised qualification in a similar vein as one would attain as a Tafe College or University graduate achieving a trade or profession. In fact, it's misleading to the public IMHO to believe that these certifications provide an official level of recognised competency in an industry that the public then assume is regulated by legislation which it isn't.

NTDF is a formal government accrediated program, I believe one of the Delta programs is also government accredited.

[Aussienot]

I believe, after doing a little web based sluthing, that the SPCA is an affiliate, who earn money for every purchase off their link, rather than endorsing his training methods. There are a couple of links on their page that work this way, web-link fundraising.

His spiel, his style and his products are extremely similar to another person claiming to have 'a dog training secret', has a number of different named programs, and is only out to make as much money as possible. He's either a copy cat or the same person.

Not that there is anything wrong with shameless self promotion to earn money, but not where you'll find the best dog training information, usually.

[Nekhbet]

my firewall and antivirus block his website as a reported web forgery that is a scam

[abed]

Wow, you'd think he was the RNZSPCA's answer to Cesar Milan. If his marketing were any less subtle I'd be in hospital.

I don't know. I wouldn't put much store in any "endorsement" of trainers, really. It's like Brand Power, helping you buy better.... by telling you what brands to buy. The ones that paid them, presumably. Now endorsement by an independent third party I might pay attention to. If the CHOICE of dog training recommended this guy, I'd go to him regardless of the bludgeoning marketing. Well, maybe. I'd at least consider it seriously.

So the question is, is RNZSPCA an independent third party?

I have to be honest to say that I have a problem with traning and behavioural endorsements/qualifications issued by private enterprises like the NDTF, Delta, Bark Busters etc where people completing their courses use these endorsements in marketing to the greater community to portray that they hold a formal and recognised qualification in a similar vein as one would attain as a Tafe College or University graduate achieving a trade or profession. In fact, it's misleading to the public IMHO to believe that these certifications provide an official level of recognised competency in an industry that the public then assume is regulated by legislation which it isn't.

NTDF is a formal government accrediated program, I believe one of the Delta programs is also government accredited.

There is the NDTF CertIII, but I was actually thinking more of the franchised outlets that conduct a 2 week course. However, certificates are not trade qualifications as such in unregulated occupations, like anyone can call themselves a qualified trainer/behaviourist ligitimately, but you can't call yourself a qualified hair dresser or accountant without the relative schooling and credentials.

[Erny]

I have to be honest to say that I have a problem with traning and behavioural endorsements/qualifications issued by private enterprises like the NDTF, Delta, Bark Busters etc where people completing their courses use these endorsements in marketing to the greater community to portray that they hold a formal and recognised qualification in a similar vein as one would attain as a Tafe College or University graduate achieving a trade or profession. In fact, it's misleading to the public IMHO to believe that these certifications provide an official level of recognised competency in an industry that the public then assume is regulated by legislation which it isn't.

NTDF is a formal government accrediated program, I believe one of the Delta programs is also government accredited.

There is the NDTF CertIII, but I was actually thinking more of the franchised outlets that conduct a 2 week course. However, certificates are not trade qualifications as such in unregulated occupations, like anyone can call themselves a qualified trainer/behaviourist ligitimately, but you can't call yourself a qualified hair dresser or accountant without the relative schooling and credentials.

.... then why include NDTF and Delta in with the others? They are a far cry from the "2 week course franchise companies". In fact, they couldn't be more like chalk and cheese.

[Staranais]

I believe, after doing a little web based sluthing, that the SPCA is an affiliate, who earn money for every purchase off their link, rather than endorsing his training methods. There are a couple of links on their page that work this way, web-link fundraising.

I suspect you're right - I suspect he just paid them something to be on their site, without them examining his qualifications or training methods or marketing ethics too closely. Disappointing. Anyway, I've emailed the SPCA to politely ask how one becomes a fully endorsed dog trainer with them. Will be interesting to see if they reply!

Who else does he remind you of, Aussienot?

[Nekhbet]

NDTF is not on the list of accredited dog training schools that the gov will recognise their Cert 3 members as dog trainers

from the DPI website

Approved training organisations

The legislation requires Councils to charge a reduced registration fee for dogs that have undergone obedience training which complies with the Regulations.

Organisations whose dog obedience assessment programs are approved under the Domestic Animals Regulations 2005 are:

* Victorian Canine Association (VCA)

* Australian Association of Professional Dog Trainers Inc

* Australian Association of Gentle Modern Dog Training Instructors

* Delta Society Australia

* Top Dog K9 Trainers Academy

The program must be conducted by a qualified dog trainer who is a member of one of these organisations.

Dogs that have undergone an assessment program administered by the above and have been issued with the official ‘Dog Obedience Certificate' are eligible for the reduced registration fee in the Schedule to the Act. The other certificates that qualify a dog for the reduced registration fee are certificates of obedience titles that are recognised by the Australian National Kennel Control.

I remember on the last lesson of my NDTF course we were told we were not going to be on the above list and they were still trying. It's recognised as an official Cert 3 but the DPI wont officially recognise you as a dog trainer when it comes to things like the above paragraph if you're with NDTF only.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

my firewall and antivirus block his website as a reported web forgery that is a scam

mine did this as well :D

[Erny]

my firewall and antivirus block his website as a reported web forgery that is a scam

mine did this as well :D

Mine too.

[Staranais]

Hmmm, interesting. They did reply - thanks RNZSPCA!

Apparently they do not usually endorse trainers, however they say "Doggy Dan" got endorsed as he:

* Uses no "aversion techniques" in his training

* Gives his services to the SPCA for free

They wouldn't tell me if he had any particular qualifications, though, or if he had to pay anything to be endorsed.

To give him the benefit of the doubt perhaps he's a decent trainer (although presumably unqualified and with nil understanding of ecollars), just with a terrible, tacky marketing scheme? :D

[4paws]

Just clear up any misconception regarding dog training and behaviourist qualifications for anyone interested.

There is no legislation in Australia to regulate the qualifications and training of people offering services as a dog trainer or the treatment of behavioural problems in companion animals. The "accreditation" that the NDTF and others provide is certification that their graduates have completed a course in compliance with the standards set out by that organisation. A Certificate III from the NDTF does NOT make the graduate a qualified animal behaviour consultant.

A "qualified" animal behaviour consultant must be either a Veterinarian, zooloigist, psychologist, or biologist with an advanced PhD in animal behaviour sciences as prescribed by the Australian Veterinary Association and is qualified to treat any animal unreserved to only dogs. Unless a person can meet this requirement, they are not a "qualified" behaviourist.

Cheers :D

Edited December 13, 2010 by 4paws