Did Any Of You Know ?

[Steve]

Did any of you know that as from the 1st of July next year it is against ANKC regs to breed close relaives and progeny wont be registered?

In May next year NSW are up for a review of POCTA laws and I was told about a year ago that first on the agenda after the Bateson report will be to make in breeding a crimminal offence. As the ANKC have now basically handed us over to this Im just curious if it was only me who didnt know they had made this decision or if others were unaware of this too.

[Janba]

I was aware of it as it was either in a press release or in ANKC minutes - not sure which.

[Paptacular!]

How close is a 'close relative'?

[alpha bet]

I was always of the understanding that "in-breeding" is in the first and second generation - i.e. with common parent or grandparent.

The old breeders back in the 70's preferred looking at "Line-breeding" was usually talked about being in fourth or fifth generations. If the gene pool was a limited then they would use a 3rd generation.

Edited December 10, 2010 by alpha bet

[Christina]

How close is a 'close relative'?

This does need to be made very specific & clear.

[Janba]

9. Relatedness of mating pairs

The question of prohibiting first degree of inbreeding is presently under discussion. Secondary to the work done by Sydney University, on our behalf (as discussed in section 3), less than 5% of registrations have this degree of inbreeding. In many breeds this figure is far lower. Therefore prohibiting father daughter, mother son and full sibling matings is quite achievable. Both the Kennel Club UK and Swedish KC have already instigated this same move.

The advice from Sydney University also supports this move to avoid issues such as inbreeding depression and increasing the percentage on inherited disease.

The restriction of second degree matings at this time is not felt to be warranted unless there is scientific advice in specific breeds where disease incidence has been proven to show that this move is necessary. Outcrossing we feel should only be considered where there is definite and specific disease outcomes that are desired as discussed in section 4 above.

http://www.ankc.org.au/Improving-outcomes-...-Australia.aspx

There was something else too but haven't found it - maybe in the ANKC minutes

[Janba]

Found it in the 2010 Conference summary

1.16 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.3 - Registration of Progeny of Close

Matings

It was resolved that ANKC Member Bodies will not register the progeny of first degree matings

(father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister) on the Main Register. The only exceptions to this

would be where application was made to the Controlling Body prior to the mating on the basis

of health or genetic reasons to the benefit of the breed.

1.17 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.4 - Close Matings

It was resolved that the ANKC introduce the following regulations pertaining to Close Matings

from 1 July 2011.

“I shall not mate my bitch or dog to a close relative ie mother / son, father / daughter or brother

/ sister and I am fully aware that puppies as a result of these matings will not be registered

without first gaining pre-approval from the Member Body for the mating for scientifically proven

welfare or veterinary reasons.”

Edited December 10, 2010 by Janba

[LizT]

How close is a 'close relative'?

This does need to be made very specific & clear.

"Immediate family" and full siblings it would appear.

[Bulldust]

So half siblings (ie same father) would be ok?

[fifi]

So half siblings (ie same father) would be ok?

Yes, I was looking for clarification of that too bulldust.

fifi

[Rebanne]

Did any of you know that as from the 1st of July next year it is against ANKC regs to breed close relaives and progeny wont be registered?

.

yes been out and about for a bit now

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

It was resolved that ANKC Member Bodies will not register the progeny of first degree matings (father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister) on the Main Register.

This includes half-brother X half-sister unless otherwise clarified by ANKC.

Many years ago we experienced an accidental brother X sister litter, and I insisted the progeny went on the Limited register. I assume that outcome would still be permitted?

CC

[Stolzseinrotts]

^^^^

This does need to be clarified. I have a 1/2 sister x 1/2 brother litter about to arrive in a few days.

I have plans to do another similar breeding down the track but it would not be for at least another 12 months or so.

Where would I find the clarification on this?????

ETA: I didn't think 1/2 brother x 1/2 sister matings would fall into the proposed rule changes? I really need to find out exactly what you can and can't do.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Stolzseinrotts

[Paptacular!]

Yes, the half brother/half sister situation is what I was worried about, I have these babies due in February if all goes well.

[zenchel]

^^^^

This does need to be clarified. I have a 1/2 sister x 1/2 brother litter about to arrive in a few days.

I have plans to do another similar breeding down the track but it would not be for at least another 12 months or so.

Where would I find the clarification on this?????

ETA: I didn't think 1/2 brother x 1/2 sister matings would fall into the proposed rule changes? I really need to find out exactly what you can and can't do.

There are a couple of things that need clarifying here - firstly both the new ANKC regulations specifically state first degree matings (father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister). So half brother/sister matings do not fall under the rule changes. It is really not very helpful to post generalised statements like "it is against ANKC regs to breed close relaives and progeny wont be registered" without quoting the exact regulation so everybody will know exactly what is being proposed.

Secondly, if you read them carefully, the two new regs actually contradict each other . Dogs Vic Canine Health Committee have asked that the two new regs be reviewed for the purpose of clarifying the situation.

1.16 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.3 - Registration of Progeny of Close

Matings

It was resolved that ANKC Member Bodies will not register the progeny of first degree matings

(father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister) on the Main Register. The only exceptions to this

would be where application was made to the Controlling Body prior to the mating on the basis

of health or genetic reasons to the benefit of the breed.

1.17 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.4 - Close Matings

It was resolved that the ANKC introduce the following regulations pertaining to Close Matings

from 1 July 2011.

“I shall not mate my bitch or dog to a close relative ie mother / son, father / daughter or brother

/ sister and I am fully aware that puppies as a result of these matings will not be registered

without first gaining pre-approval from the Member Body for the mating for scientifically proven

welfare or veterinary reasons.”

Sylvia Power

Chair

Dogs Vic Canine Health Committee

[espinay2]

Ah yes, if you read them the first states they can not be registered on the main register (so presumably if a mating does happen whether accidentally or otherwise they can still all be placed on the limitder register)

On the other hand the second one simply states they can't be registered (i.e. it reads as if they cant be registered at all) without pre-approval for the mating.

While you would expect that the first clause would take precedence on matters of registration (as it is the clause dealing specifically with registration) this definitely needs clarification from the ANKC.

[nabs]

Found it in the 2010 Conference summary

1.16 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.3 - Registration of Progeny of Close

Matings

It was resolved that ANKC Member Bodies will not register the progeny of first degree matings

(father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister) on the Main Register. The only exceptions to this

would be where application was made to the Controlling Body prior to the mating on the basis

of health or genetic reasons to the benefit of the breed.

1.17 ANKC Regulations Part 6, Section 8, Clause 8.4 - Close Matings

It was resolved that the ANKC introduce the following regulations pertaining to Close Matings

from 1 July 2011.

“I shall not mate my bitch or dog to a close relative ie mother / son, father / daughter or brother

/ sister and I am fully aware that puppies as a result of these matings will not be registered

without first gaining pre-approval from the Member Body for the mating for scientifically proven

welfare or veterinary reasons.”

This is already in force in Queensland

[Tralee]

Half-sibling matings are going to be problematic because, in effect, they can throw puppies with the same chromosome sets as full sibling matings.

Edited December 11, 2010 by pewithers

[Bulldust]

I am really getting sick of the crap we are getting put through by the canine governing bodies. I have a half brother/sister mating planned in a couple of years and will not be happy if i wont be able to do this. I can just imagine what we'd have to do to get 'pre approval' no doubt it would be near impossible...

[Steve]

I am really getting sick of the crap we are getting put through by the canine governing bodies. I have a half brother/sister mating planned in a couple of years and will not be happy if i wont be able to do this. I can just imagine what we'd have to do to get 'pre approval' no doubt it would be near impossible...

My concern is that around 2 years ago I had a meeting with someone who has a fair bit of clout and is very much credible that there was a plan underway for close breeding to be outlawed and made a crimminal offence under POCTA.There is a review of POCTA in May next year in NSW.

Id say the chances of that happening now has definitely risen. Wont matter though its just another law and hardly any of us do it anyway.