Here We Go Mandatory Desexing For All Pet Puppies.

[asal]

Like I said, I don't know each state. But they are all separate entities, as is RSPCA Australia. While it has an overseeing capacity ot really doesn't involve itself in the individual state org's matters. Tarring all with one brush is like saying all teh state's governments are the same, and if one is bad then of course they all must be.

And trust me Rev Jo, RSPCA do not get more power than police.

who told u that furphy?

so you dont know a rspca inspector in armidale can call the police in gunnedah and tell them to arrest the owners of a bull if they have not turned it loose when they arrive to check they have done as told?

i know this case i can get me friend to send you a stat dec if you really need one.

to turn this baby loose on a property covered in clover was a death sentance, but could she, her husband or the police she sent get this through to the faceless voice on the other end of the line???

nope

so dont try that one.

the police all raised on the land said they had to do as directed if they didnt turn the bull loose . they had to obey the rspca inspecter even though she never set foot on the place to ascertain the situation herself.

the bull was turned loose. as the police said, if they arrested my friend and her husband then there would be no one to save him when he bloated.

Edited December 15, 2010 by asal

[asal]

What bothers me the most about domestic pets in Australia is that over 100,000 of them are euthanised every year, not because they are sick, bad, or dangerous - but because they are unwanted.

Yet there are so many more being deliberately and accidentally bred to add to this amount. None of it makes sense to me.

Desexing really is the only thing that can stop this.

I sadly doubt, laws or not, that I will ever see this society getting to the point where we stop euthanising good animals simply because we have over-bred.

I'm with you on this one. Desexing is the only way to stop the unwanted supply of dogs and cats out there. I have no problems with any of the laws wanting to be introduced. Registered breeders should be the only ones allowed to have undesexed dogs. Pounds, rescues, shelters, pet shops (which I wish they could ban from selling puppies and kittens), all should be desexed before going to their new homes.

Wait until March-April 2011, when all the Christmas puppies and kittens hit the rescue pages or pounds etc. So very sad.

You see to have forgotten another important part of the remedy. Education. Teaching responsibiity to owners, like - "if you OWN AN ANIMAL then you are RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LIFE OF THAT ANIMAL and NO, YOU CANNOT PALM OFF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY OF ANIMAL OWNERSHIP ON TO A RESCUE ORGANISATION OR A POUND. IF YOU own the animal, then YOU TAKE CARE OF IT .... til death do us part".

Don't want the dog any more, for whatever reason? Then you be the one to hold the dog in your arms while the vet gives it the final needle. Not an easy task.

If pet owners had to ask themselves "Can I do that?" BEFORE they committed to animal ownership there would be very few dogs and cats on death row.

Most animals are on death row because they were with the wrong owners.

Souff

HUSH YOUR MOUTH SOUFF, naughy souff, you cant put the owner on the hook surely?

surely you know it is the montserous mongrel who bred that poor creature to make $$$$'s from its mummys suffering, they are responsible. ive been told so, so it surely is right? isnt it???????????

Edited December 15, 2010 by asal

[Annie99]

They do have more power than the police and they are answerable to no one.

In at least 1 state of Australia the RSPCA can enter premises without a warrant.

The police in that same state must get a warrant before they can enter the same premises.

Yet, unlike the police, there is no Ombudsman or Tribunal to whom the public can go to about RSPCA matters, and no ICAC for the RSPCA to answer to.

Souff

In fact they can enter if they believe ( have evidence) that am offence is being commited under the AWA ( Police who are General Inspectors can enter premises under the AWA as well for the functions covered under that act.

It hasnt been tested on whether the RSPCA can be accountable to the ombudsman ( IN WA) at least, so far

This is all very interesting. I will be following this topic, especially the issues raised in the last few posts.

[megan_]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

[asal]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

no they are not

"answerable" to the minister.

they must submit an annual "report" to the minister.

there is a heap of difference in that. from what i have personally learned that report does not necessarly mean it has to contain the truth either and even if this is pointed out, and i have been in the position to point out what was reported to the minister was in a court of law would be classed as perjury, the minister chose to ignore and end all further correspondance.

so dont go holding your breath too long waiting for any accountability comming from there in your lifetime

[Are You Serious Jo]

The best way to find out if they are answerable to anyone is to try to make a complaint about them. I know it sounds outlandish and there is one rspca apologist who thinks they answer to the minister but it doesn't work. Some very good legal minds have investigated this thoroughly and I believe them, they know what they are doing and had no luck.

[Annie99]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

no they are not

"answerable" to the minister.

they must submit an annual "report" to the minister.

there is a heap of difference in that. from what i have personally learned that report does not necessarly mean it has to contain the truth either and even if this is pointed out, and i have been in the position to point out what was reported to the minister was in a court of law would be classed as perjury, the minister chose to ignore and end all further correspondance.

so dont go holding your breath too long waiting for any accountability comming from there in your lifetime

Hmmmm.

Now why doesn't this surprise me (note I worked many years for the Government)

[asal]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

your problem is what actually do you think constitutes "evidence"

in the case of the gunnedah incident, the rscpa inspector received a complaint re the bull in gunnedah. she did not go to gunnedah. she did contact the owners of the bull and told them to turn it loose. they refused. she then contacted the gunnedah police and told them to enter the property, inspect the bull and ensure it was turned loose, if not, to arrest the owners and jail them. before they left with the prisioners they were to turn the bull loose.

my friend did as the police advised, turned the bull loose. the bull only survived because my friend walked behind it all that afternoon and night keeping him moving so he couldnt eat enough clover to kill him while her husband finished the bullyard that was already being constructed and finished before dawn the next morning.

the rspca officer never left her office in armidale. either before during or after the incident to come to the property personally.

pending the finishing of the yard for him the baby bull was on a 15 foot tether chain (thats a 30 foot circle he could move around in) with access to a large barn with shade and water and hand fed (he was a $7,000 show bull, you could see your reflection in his coat)

Edited December 15, 2010 by asal

[Staranais]

The best way to find out if they are answerable to anyone is to try to make a complaint about them. I know it sounds outlandish and there is one rspca apologist who thinks they answer to the minister but it doesn't work. Some very good legal minds have investigated this thoroughly and I believe them, they know what they are doing and had no luck.

Where DO you complain to, if you feel the SPCA have treated you unfairly? I've got to say I wouldn't have the foggiest where to start, and the website doesn't give me any clue either.

Does anyone know how you'd go about making a complain or appeal against an RSPCA decision?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

The best way to find out if they are answerable to anyone is to try to make a complaint about them. I know it sounds outlandish and there is one rspca apologist who thinks they answer to the minister but it doesn't work. Some very good legal minds have investigated this thoroughly and I believe them, they know what they are doing and had no luck.

Where DO you complain to, if you feel the SPCA have treated you unfairly? I've got to say I wouldn't have the foggiest where to start, and the website doesn't give me any clue either.

Does anyone know how you'd go about making a complain or appeal against an RSPCA decision?

there is no where, i am serious, there is no appeals process, best you could do is complain to the minister maybe.

but the police have a formal appeals process and so should the rspca

[Staranais]

Yes, if they don't, then they certainly should.

Even if you're a strong SPCA supporter you'll understand that everyone makes mistakes sometimes, so a formal appeals procedure is essential for any agency wielding any power.

[asal]

Yes, if they don't, then they certainly should.

Even if you're a strong SPCA supporter you'll understand that everyone makes mistakes sometimes, so a formal appeals procedure is essential for any agency wielding any power.

far as i can figure our politicions think the rspca has the power of infalability.. u know like the pope?

[shortstep]

This forum necessarily becomes political at times, but at other times it oversteps the mark with needless remarks. There are extremists in the Green movement, but nothing shortstep has parodied is a Green policy and it was needless politicising.

I believe you are correct. It is VEGAN policy. And Vegans are not green .....

I think it depends on the vegan. I know vegans that have cats and dogs (being vegan just means they don't eat the cats and dogs, drink their milk, or wear their skins - they're still allowed to keep them around for company!)

Of course, you get some vegans with crazy PETA animal-liberation ideas, but every group of people has its share of nasties or crazies.

Think Green, Go Veg!!! Do your part to save the world, vote Green!!!

Did you know that adopting a vegetarian diet is more important than switching to a "greener" car in the fight against global warming? Did you know that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars and trucks in the world combined? Of course you did, so show off your "green" savvy with PETA's "Think Green Go Veg" T-shirt. Get the word out that we all have the power to change the world, one meal at a time. Think green go vegetarian!

Order your tee shirt 'Think Green Go Veg' from PETA today!!!

http://www.petacatalog.com/products/Think_...hirt-157-0.html

Save the planet, by ending pet slavery and domestic animal slavery!

Be Green Vote Green!!! Maditory desexing of all dogs and cats to help end pet owenrship and save the planet!

If you want a pet get a stuffed animal.

[shortstep]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

Megan, the RSPCA is answerable to the 'greater good', which is a far greater position than the minsiter.

Be Green Vote Green, end animal ownership and animal slavery in Australia!

We don't wear them, we don't eat them, we don't own them!

Support maditory desexing of all pets.

Edited December 15, 2010 by shortstep

[MalteseLuna]

Like I said, I don't know each state. But they are all separate entities, as is RSPCA Australia. While it has an overseeing capacity ot really doesn't involve itself in the individual state org's matters. Tarring all with one brush is like saying all teh state's governments are the same, and if one is bad then of course they all must be.

And trust me Rev Jo, RSPCA do not get more power than police.

well maybe i will number crunch for all the state rspca's.

I think this might be something to consider - RSPCA NSW for example is completely different to RSPCA Australia (according to friend who is a vet nurse in RSPCA NSW). The news/opinions of RSPCA NSW or another state might be (and often are) very different to those of other states or RSPCA Australia.

I do think it is very worrying that RSPCA Australia seems to have such a large amount of profit. They are not for profit... Also paying the ceo of a not for profit $120 000 seems pretty cushy! But then most ceo's make unbelievable amounts of money!

[MalteseLuna]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

Megan, the RSPCA is answerable to the 'greater good', which is a far greater position than the minsiter.

Be Green Vote Green, end animal ownership and animal slavery in Australia!

We don't wear them, we don't eat them, we don't own them!

Support maditory desexing of all pets.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not

[poodlefan]

I do think it is very worrying that RSPCA Australia seems to have such a large amount of profit. They are not for profit... Also paying the ceo of a not for profit $120 000 seems pretty cushy! But then most ceo's make unbelievable amounts of money!

There is no "RSPCA Australia". Just all the state/territory ones and some national administrators.

[mita]

there is no where, i am serious, there is no appeals process, best you could do is complain to the minister maybe.

but the police have a formal appeals process and so should the rspca

The Qld law which allows RSPCA intervention, is a relatively new one, so includes some emphasis on a review/appeals structure. In line with current public expectations. The final process is via an independent tribunal & that is written into the law.

I already posted about that & my memory is that you, JB, responded.

I don't know the laws & their accountability structures in other states.

Edited December 15, 2010 by mita

[asal]

Like I said, I don't know each state. But they are all separate entities, as is RSPCA Australia. While it has an overseeing capacity ot really doesn't involve itself in the individual state org's matters. Tarring all with one brush is like saying all teh state's governments are the same, and if one is bad then of course they all must be.

And trust me Rev Jo, RSPCA do not get more power than police.

well maybe i will number crunch for all the state rspca's.

I think this might be something to consider - RSPCA NSW for example is completely different to RSPCA Australia (according to friend who is a vet nurse in RSPCA NSW). The news/opinions of RSPCA NSW or another state might be (and often are) very different to those of other states or RSPCA Australia.

I do think it is very worrying that RSPCA Australia seems to have such a large amount of profit. They are not for profit... Also paying the ceo of a not for profit $120 000 seems pretty cushy! But then most ceo's make unbelievable amounts of money!

wonder how many CEO's deliberately say at Mcgraths hill saleyards, "no one but the doggers is allowed to bid "on a bunch of horses they let the owner think and believe would be found good homes, thus to send 10 mares and foals to the doggers?

although that was pre 1999 before he became CEO wonder if the attitude has changed since then?

i was with the owner when she signed and heard the promise, i also was at mcgraths hill to hear that. so none of it is heresay.

Edited December 15, 2010 by asal

[asal]

Depends on the state. Victorian RSPCA can't enter without evidence.

Also, they are answerable to the minister, no? Saying they are answerable to no one implies just that - there is no higher authority than the RSPCA and that isn't true.

Megan, the RSPCA is answerable to the 'greater good', which is a far greater position than the minsiter.

Be Green Vote Green, end animal ownership and animal slavery in Australia!

We don't wear them, we don't eat them, we don't own them!

Support maditory desexing of all pets.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not

either way food for thought. so if all foul domesticated methane excreters are to be eliminated??

does that mean all wild methan excreters are next for extermination????????? theres millions of them,, um actually a few billion of em particularly so in africa

yikes

homo sapiens also excrete..................what..................methane?

Edited December 15, 2010 by asal