Here We Go Mandatory Desexing For All Pet Puppies.

[Staranais]

This forum necessarily becomes political at times, but at other times it oversteps the mark with needless remarks. There are extremists in the Green movement, but nothing shortstep has parodied is a Green policy and it was needless politicising.

I believe you are correct. It is VEGAN policy. And Vegans are not green .....

but? dont they eat green

and red, orange, yellow, brown and blue (berries!)

[Souff]

Is $52M a lot of money to oversee and police the welfare of all the animals in our geographically large country? Honest question, doesn't seem like very much compared to a lot of other organisations with much smaller responsibilities. How much did we spend on our FIFA world cup bid, for e.g?

Depends on what you spend it on really.

And how you take into account all the donated goods and services that would otherwise cost you a substantial amount of money.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Is $52M a lot of money to oversee and police the welfare of all the animals in our geographically large country? Honest question, doesn't seem like very much compared to a lot of other organisations with much smaller responsibilities. How much did we spend on our FIFA world cup bid, for e.g?

Depends on what you spend it on really.

And how you take into account all the donated goods and services that would otherwise cost you a substantial amount of money.

and include the reduction in tax because it is a registered charity which reduces costs as well

[whippets]

Is $52M a lot of money to oversee and police the welfare of all the animals in our geographically large country? Honest question, doesn't seem like very much compared to a lot of other organisations with much smaller responsibilities. How much did we spend on our FIFA world cup bid, for e.g?

That figure is for one state, Victoria, not the whole country.

[mita]

This forum necessarily becomes political at times, but at other times it oversteps the mark with needless remarks. There are extremists in the Green movement, but nothing shortstep has parodied is a Green policy and it was needless politicising.

You're right, Aidan. And well said.

Extremists, by definition, are few in number. If they weren't, they wouldn't be extremists.

Edited December 14, 2010 by mita

[Alyosha]

No wait, before you do, I have a question.

I have it on good authority that the distributors of HSD keep the RSPCA in free food, by the truckload.

Does this not happen in the ACT?

Souff

Dog and cat food... yep. But there are a whole world of animals in their care that don't eat dog and cat food. ;) Thousands of them.

All creatures remember??

Low wages and difficult working conditions? Yep. Unskilled? Certainly not. You'd be amazed at the highly skilled positions needed to run these places... Very few large organisations have unskilled people in senior management...

And yes, some suckers do it not for the cash, but for their own other reasons.

;) ;) ;)

Must loan a few $$ from the RSPCA then,lol

I'll be in that queue then! Cap in hand!! Could be waiting a while though... Better bring the camping gear and thermos!!

eta - spelling...

Edited December 14, 2010 by Alyosha

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

sa rspca alone had a $2 million excess after all expenses from last years income the year before it was $1 million

they have $8.6 million current cash assets

they have $6.1 million of non-current assets

they have current liabilities of $600k

there were few animals housed other than cats and dogs

they have money look at their annual reports for each state

maybe i will crunch the numbers

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[whippets]

No wait, before you do, I have a question.

I have it on good authority that the distributors of HSD keep the RSPCA in free food, by the truckload.

Does this not happen in the ACT?

Souff

Dog and cat food... yep. But there are a whole world of animals in their care that don't eat dog and cat food. Thousands of them.

All creatures remember??

Low wages and difficult working conditions? Yep. Unskilled? Certainly not. You'd be amazed at the highly skilled positions needed to run these places... Very few large organisations have unskilled people in senior management...

And yes, some suckers do it not for the cash, but for their own other reasons.

;) ;) ;)

Must loan a few $$ from the RSPCA then,lol

I'll be in that queue then! Cap in hand!! Could be waiting a while though... Better bring the camping gear and thermos!!

eta - spelling...

You mentioned your job of cleaning, feeding and medicating. That is what I referred to as unskilled labour, which is a low paid job. Why don't you call Uncle Hugh Wirth and ask him his salary? ;)

[whippets]

sa rspca alone had a $2 million excess after all expenses from last years income the year before it was $1 million

they have $8.6 million current cash assets

they have $6.1 million of non-current assets

they have current liabilities of $600k

there were few animals housed other than cats and dogs

they have money look at their annual reports for each state

maybe i will crunch the numbers

Wonder when they'll bring in the $50 desexing for all dogs (and cats).

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

sa rspca alone had a $2 million excess after all expenses from last years income the year before it was $1 million

they have $8.6 million current cash assets

they have $6.1 million of non-current assets

they have current liabilities of $600k

there were few animals housed other than cats and dogs

they have money look at their annual reports for each state

maybe i will crunch the numbers

Wonder when they'll bring in the $50 desexing for all dogs (and cats).

dunno...do you think they can afford it without going broke? ;)

[Alyosha]

You mentioned your job of cleaning, feeding and medicating. That is what I referred to as unskilled labour, which is a low paid job. Why don't you call Uncle Hugh Wirth and ask him his salary?

The point being that a place as busy and understaffed as busy shelters tend to be means all hands on deck, and admin stuff happens in out of work hours. When animals need care, it always comes first, at the expense of people's time, other duties, etc. Do you see?

And then staff (at every level) head home and find time for foster animals, their own animals, and maybe even their families occasionally.

Vets clean, feed and medicate... Are they unskilled??? I actually think that medicating takes a level of skill that many don't have. I don't know many completely unskilled people who are handy with needles...

When so very little is known of how these places work in reality, it is woeful how much presumption and arrogant opinion gets thrown around about it.

Folks on here talk big talk, and assume much knowledge.

And no, I personally have no time for Hugh Wirth. He speaks for himself, often against National policy. People need to realise that a great many people make up the various state organisations of the RSPCA, not one or two. And most of them work their hearts out for wages that the vast majority of people in our society would not.

These are staff from the bottom to the top. So cut them all some slack, some folks need to step down off their high horses sometimes and walk a mile in another's shoes.

ETA - So who pays the gap in this marvellous $50 desex? Do the vets work for absolute free now? Does YOUR vet work for free? Who buys the meds and sterilising gear? Surgical equipment... the list goes on.

Animal care is an extremely costly business. Go crunch the numbers, come back and show us.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Alyosha

[whippets]

You said the R$PCA had little money. You are wrong.

Again I was referring to YOU and YOUR job not every tom dick and harry. You were the one that complained about your wages and time away from family. If that is your priority then so be it.

[Alyosha]

I was talking about all the staff... Did you not notice?

I can't convince people who have their heads embedded in sand. I don't care for your opinions on what they do and don't have. I have knowledge, you have assumption. Simple really.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Knowledge can be gained from reading the financial reports too you know. If you are unhappy about the amount of dollars flowing down from above then take it up with them. The money is certainly there, but as it is a business they'll pay you as little as you will tolerate, and use the animals to do so.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Knowledge can be gained from reading the financial reports too you know. If you are unhappy about the amount of dollars flowing down from above then take it up with them. The money is certainly there, but as it is a business they'll pay you as little as you will tolerate, and use the animals to do so.

i have worked in many community organisations and this is always the strategy, whether it is animals, kids or the disadvantaged. they all run on paid staff volunteer labour and will continue to do so until the staff demand more income...without feeling guilty about doing it

eta, i would be asking what the surplus cash was earmarked for

also, some vets already under their own initiative provide low cost desexing so they are taking the money out of their own pockets ... and i have so much respect for what they do...how about the rspca help them?

here are the vets who are involved http://www.ndn.org.au/index.html

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[Alyosha]

Knowledge can be gained from reading the financial reports too you know. If you are unhappy about the amount of dollars flowing down from above then take it up with them. The money is certainly there, but as it is a business they'll pay you as little as you will tolerate, and use the animals to do so.

;)

esit to add rollyeyes in case anyone missed the ironic aspect...

Edited December 14, 2010 by Alyosha

[Staranais]

It should be easy enough to work out. Say an average basic desexing of a cat or a dog costs $200 (including all surgical materials, staff wages, premed & induction & maintenance drugs, post-op pain relief, oxygen, wear & tear on equipment, cleaning & sterilisation, but making no additional profit). Obviously boy kitties would cost less and a big fat bitch or pregnant animal or an operation where something goes wrong could cost far more, but say that's the average.

Take $50 off, that's $150 that the SPCA would need to find for each desexing. So, now all you need to know is how many lots of $150 the SPCA has spare. I have no idea what the answer to that question would be, but it can't be that hard to find out?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

It should be easy enough to work out. Say an average basic desexing of a cat or a dog costs $200 (including all surgical materials, staff wages, premed & induction & maintenance drugs, post-op pain relief, oxygen, wear & tear on equipment, cleaning & sterilisation, but making no additional profit). Obviously boy kitties would cost less and a big fat bitch or pregnant animal or an operation where something goes wrong could cost far more, but say that's the average.

Take $50 off, that's $150 that the SPCA would need to find for each desexing. So, now all you need to know is how many lots of $150 the SPCA has spare. I have no idea what the answer to that question would be, but it can't be that hard to find out?

well in SA alone the have over $8 million ion cash and make a profit of between $1 million and $2 million per year. maybe they could use some of that money

using $150 subsidy and only $1 million 6,600 animals could be desexed each year under such a scheme in SA alone

using only $500k there is still 3000 pets desexed each year

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[BigPaws]

Ok, just saw all the responses to my comment....

When I say that breeders think they're special, I do honestly believe that a lot of breeders believe that only breeders can give a dog the right life/care. There are some out there who accept that someone doesn't have to be a breeder to be capable of giving the same level of care, ie keeping an entire bitch without her becoming impregnated.

My comment about being against people breeding for personal gain....

I am talking about people breeding dogs because they can, and selling the puppies as registered dogs because they can make money out of them.

This does happen and that makes those breeders no better than puppy farmers.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Ok, just saw all the responses to my comment....

When I say that breeders think they're special, I do honestly believe that a lot of breeders believe that only breeders can give a dog the right life/care. There are some out there who accept that someone doesn't have to be a breeder to be capable of giving the same level of care, ie keeping an entire bitch without her becoming impregnated.

My comment about being against people breeding for personal gain....

I am talking about people breeding dogs because they can, and selling the puppies as registered dogs because they can make money out of them.

This does happen and that makes those breeders no better than puppy farmers.

why shouldn't breeders make money?

this attitude astounds me. we expect breeders to sink time and money and resources and emotion and then give us a perfect puppy at a cheap price....why on earth would they do that?

do you not think that there might be less breeders around because of this "if they make a profit they are a puppy farmer" mentality?

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy