Here We Go Mandatory Desexing For All Pet Puppies.

[poodlefan]

One excellent provision of the bill is to ban the sale of mammals at markets.

That will shut a local NSW puppy farmer out of selling pups at Hall Markets.

[sas]

I'm 100% for Petshops having a desex responsibility of animals they sell.

[Wazzat Xolo]

Why not simply have a mandatory code for pet shops and leave breeders alone.

Yes but that makes too much sense, Steve.

lol some breeders in my opinion need some rules!!

As most know there are breeders and there are BREEDERS!

[sandgrubber]

Such legislation can have an effect without being draconian.

Santa Cruz County, where I live, is considered 'best practice' for mandatory desexing and pet shop control . . . at least in the US. The laws allow breeders and show people . . . working dogs could probably qualify as well . . . but you have to register with the county . . . and registration requires a letter from your vet saying you are keeping up a good health regime. You can pick and choose your vets . . . the one I'm using is for minimal vaccinations, likes feeding raw, etc . . . does titre tests in place of jabs . . . so the Vet letter is flexible; it just screens out breeders who can't be bothered with vets. As for pets . .. you still see quite a few entire X breeds in the poorer sections of town . .. enforcement is lax unless the dog is being a nuisance or neighbors complain. They also have lots of subsidised desexing. Despite weak enforcement, the legal regime has greatly reduced the numbers of pets in shelters . .. and cut the euthanasia rate way down.

Oh yes . . . no live animals are sold in pet shops.

That one is enforced, and easy to enforce.

Why not simply have a mandatory code for pet shops and leave breeders alone.

Yes but that makes too much sense, Steve.

Edited December 9, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Steve]

Well its got me buggered how any one can say they care about preventing dogs from suffering and still push for early age desexing - especially when you can advocate for only purebreds to be given the chance to get out of it or purebred dog owners to be able to make an informed decision about what is best for their dog in conjunction with their vet.

The introduction of mandatory sterilisation needlessly and recklessly interferes with the traditional relationship between veterinarians and their clients. The decision to perform surgery on a pet should be made, weighing risks and benefits, by the pet owner in consultation with their vet.

In addition, any regulation which establishes an arbitrary age as the standard for mandatory sterilisation ignores the variables between breeds and scientific research.

The appropriate age for sterilisation is an issue that is ardently debated in the animal arena, with well documented medical and behavioural problems that can develop in dogs that are sterilised too early.

The decision to sterilise any animal must remain with pet owners, in conjunction with their Veterinarian, and the decision must be based on education and knowledge rather than through a lack of choice and government legislation.

Numerous Peer reviewed studies discuss the Possible Negative effects of early sterilisation. [see references ]

Negative, sterilisation male dogs:

• If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis;
  
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6;
  
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism;
  
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment;
  
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems;
  
• quadruples the of prostate cancer;
  
• doubles the small risk of urinary tract cancers;
  
• increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and
  
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations.
  

Negative, spaying female dogs:

• If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis;
  
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds;
  
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism;
  
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems;
  
• causes urinary "spay incontinence" in 4-20% of female dogs;
  
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4;
  
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty;
  
• doubles the small risk of urinary tract tumours;
  
• increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and
  
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations.
  

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve

[Steve]

REFERENCES

1 Burrow R, Batchelor D, Cripps P. Complications observed during and after ovariohysterectomy of 142

bitches at a veterinary teaching hospital. Vet Rec. 2005 Dec 24-31;157(26):829-33.

2 Pollari FL, Bonnett BN, Bamsey, SC, Meek, AH, Allen, DG (1996) Postoperative complications of elective

surgeries in dogs and cats determined by examining electronic and medical records. Journal of the

American Veterinary Medical Association 208, 1882-1886

3 Dorn AS, Swist RA. (1977) Complications of canine ovariohysterectomy. Journal of the American Animal

Hospital Association 13, 720-724

4 Pollari FL, Bonnett BN. Evaluation of postoperative complications following elective surgeries of dogs and

cats at private practices using computer records, Can Vet J. 1996 November; 37(11): 672–678.

5 Teske E, Naan EC, van Dijk EM, van Garderen E, Schalken JA. Canine prostate carcinoma:

epidemiological evidence of an increased risk in castrated dogs. Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2002 Nov 29;197(1-

2):251-5.

6 Sorenmo KU, Goldschmidt M, Shofer F, Ferrocone J. Immunohistochemical characterization of canine

prostatic carcinoma and correlation with castration status and castration time. Vet Comparative Oncology.

2003 Mar; 1 (1): 48

7 Weaver, AD. Fifteen cases of prostatic carcinoma in the dog. Vet Rec. 1981; 109, 71-75.

8 Cohen D, Reif JS, Brodey RS, et al: Epidemiological analysis of the most prevalent sites and types of

canine neoplasia observed in a veterinary hospital. Cancer Res 34:2859-2868, 1974

9 Theilen GH, Madewell BR. Tumors of the genital system. Part II. In:Theilen GH, Madewell BR, eds.

Veterinary cancer medicine. 2nd ed.Lea and Febinger, 1987:583–600.

10 Glickman LT, Glickman N, Thorpe R. The Golden Retriever Club of America National Health Survey 1998-

1999 http://www.vet.purdue.edu//epi/golden_retriever_final22.pdf

11 Handbook of Small Animal Practice, 3rd ed

12 Hayes HM Jr, Pendergrass TW. Canine testicular tumors: epidemiologic features of 410 dogs. Int J

Cancer 1976 Oct 15;18(4):482-7

13 Ru G, Terracini B, Glickman LT. (1998) Host-related risk factors for canine osteosarcoma. Vet J 1998

Jul;156(1):31-9

14 Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters DJ. Endogenous gonadal

hormone exposure and bone sarcoma risk. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40.

15 Moe L. Population-based incidence of mammary tumours in some dog breeds. J of Reproduction and

Fertility Supplment 57, 439-443.

16 Ferguson HR; Vet Clinics of N Amer: Small Animal Practice; Vol 15, No 3, May 1985

17 MacEwen EG, Patnaik AK, Harvey HJ Estrogen receptors in canine mammary tumors. Cancer Res., 42:

2255-2259, 1982.

18 Schneider, R, Dorn, CR, Taylor, DON. Factors Influencing Canine Mammary Cancer Development and

Postsurgical Survival. J Natl Cancer Institute, Vol 43, No 6, Dec. 1969

19 Feinleib M: Breast cancer and artificial menopause: A cohort study. J Nat Cancer Inst 41: 315-329, 1968.

20 Dorn CR and Schneider R. Inbreeding and canine mammary cancer. A retrospective study. J Natl Cancer

Inst. 57: 545-548, 1976.

21 Brodey RS: Canine and feline neoplasia. Adv Vet Sci Comp Med 14:309-354, 1970

22 Hayes A, Harvey H J: Treatment of metastatic granulosa cell tumor in a dog. J Am Vet Med Assoc

174:1304-1306, 1979

23 Norris AM, Laing EJ, Valli VE, Withrow SJ. J Vet Intern Med 1992 May; 6(3):145-53

24 Prymak C, McKee LJ, Goldschmidt MH, Glickman LT. Epidemiologic, clinical, pathologic, and prognostic

characteristics of splenic hemangiosarcoma and splenic hematoma in dogs: 217 cases (1985). J Am Vet

Med Assoc 1988 Sep; 193(6):706-12

25 Ware WA, Hopper, DL. Cardiac Tumors in Dogs: 1982-1995. J Vet Intern Med 1999;13:95–103.

26 Panciera DL. Hypothyroidism in dogs: 66 cases (1987-1992). J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1994 Mar

1;204(5):761-7

27 Panciera DL. Canine hypothyroidism. Part I. Clinical findings and control of thyroid hormone secretion and

metabolism. Compend Contin Pract Vet 1990: 12: 689-701.

28 Glickman LT, Glickman N, Raghaven M, The Akita Club of America National Health Survey 2000-2001.

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/akita_final_2.pdf

29 Glickman LT, HogenEsch H, Raghavan M, Edinboro C, Scott-Moncrieff C. Final Report to the Hayward

Foundation and The Great Dane Health Foundation of a Study Titled Vaccinosis in Great Danes. 1 Jan

2004. http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/great_dane_v...eport_jan04.pdf

30 Edney AT, Smith PM. Study of obesity in dogs visiting veterinary practices in the United Kingdom. .Vet

Rec. 1986 Apr 5;118(14):391-6.

31 McGreevy PD, Thomson PC, Pride C, Fawcett A, Grassi T, Jones B. Prevalence of obesity in dogs

examined by Australian veterinary practices and the risk factors involved. Vet Rec. 2005 May

28;156(22):695-702.

32 Lund EM, Armstrong PJ, Kirk, CA, Klausner, JS. Prevalence and Risk Factors for Obesity in Adult Dogs

from Private US Veterinary Practices. Intern J Appl Res Vet Med • Vol. 4, No. 2, 2006.

33 Marmor M, Willeberg P, Glickman LT, Priester WA, Cypess RH, Hurvitz AI. Epizootiologic patterns of

diabetes mellitus in dogs Am J Vet Res. 1982 Mar;43(3):465-70. ..

34 Moore GE, Guptill LF, Ward MP, Glickman NW, Faunt KF, Lewis HB, Glickman LT. Adverse events

diagnosed within three days of vaccine administration in dogs. JAVMA Vol 227, No 7, Oct 1, 2005

35 Thrusfield MV, Holt PE, Muirhead RH. Acquired urinary incontinence in bitches: its incidence and

relationship to neutering practices.. J Small Anim Pract. 1998. Dec;39(12):559-66.

36 Stocklin-Gautschi NM, Hassig M, Reichler IM, Hubler M, Arnold S. The relationship of urinary

incontinence to early spaying in bitches. J Reprod Fertil Suppl. 2001;57:233-6...

37 Arnold S, Arnold P, Hubler M, Casal M, and Rüsch P. Urinary Incontinence in spayed bitches: prevalence

and breed disposition. European Journal of Campanion Animal Practice. 131, 259-263.

38 Thrusfield MV 1985 Association between urinary incontinence and spaying in bitches Vet Rec 116 695

39 Richter KP, Ling V. Clinical response and urethral pressure profile changes after phenypropanolamine in

dogs with primary sphincter incompetence. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1985: 187: 605-611.

40 Holt PE. Urinary incontinence in dogs and cats. Vet Rec 1990: 127: 347-350.

41 Seguin MA, Vaden SL, Altier C, Stone E, Levine JF (2003) Persistent Urinary Tract Infections and

Reinfections in 100 Dogs (1989–1999). Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine: Vol. 17, No. 5 pp. 622–631.

42 Spain CV, Scarlett JM, Houpt KA. Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs.

JAVMA 2004;224:380-387.

43 Verstegen-Onclin K, Verstegen J. Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering: Effects on the

Urogenital System. Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical

Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control

http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf

44 Hagman R: New aspects of canine pyometra. Doctoral thesis, Swedish University of Agricultural

Sciences, Uppsala, 2004.

45 Chastain CB, Panciera D, Waters C: Associations between age, parity, hormonal therapy and breed, and

pyometra in Finnish dogs. Small Anim Endocrinol 1999; 9: 8.

46 Killingsworth CR, Walshaw R, Dunstan RW, Rosser, EJ. Bacterial population and histologic changes in

dogs with perianal fistula. Am J Vet Res, Vol 49, No. 10, Oct 1988.

47 Johnston SD, Kamolpatana K, Root-Kustritz MV, Johnston GR, Prostatic disorders in the dog. Anim

Reprod. Sci Jul 2;60-61:405-415. .

48 Dannuccia GA, Martin RB., Patterson-Buckendahl P Ovariectomy and trabecular bone remodeling in the

dog. Calcif Tissue Int 1986; 40: 194-199.

49 Martin RB, Butcher RL, Sherwood L,L Buckendahl P, Boyd RD, Farris D, Sharkey N, Dannucci G. Effects

of ovariectomy in beagle dogs. Bone 1987; 8:23-31

50 Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: Effects on skeletal,

physical, and behavioral development, JAVMA, Vol 198, No. 7, April 1991.

51 Whitehair JG, Vasseur PB, Willits NH. Epidemiology of cranial cruciate ligament rupture in dogs. J Am

Vet Med Assoc. 1993 Oct 1;203(7):1016-9.

52 Glickman LT, Airedale Terrier Club of America, Airedale Terrier Health Survey 2000-2001

http://www.vet.purdue.edu//epi/Airedale%20final%20report_revised.pdf

53 van Hagen MA, Ducro BJ, van den Broek J, Knol BW. Incidence, risk factors, and heritability estimates of

hind limb lameness caused by hip dysplasia in a birth cohort of boxers. Am J Vet Res. 2005 Feb;66(2):307-

12.

54 B. Vidoni, I. Sommerfeld-Stur und E. Eisenmenger: Diagnostic and genetic aspects of patellar luxation in

small and miniature breed dogs in Austria. Wien.Tierarztl.Mschr. (2005) 92, p170 – 181

55 Hart BL. Effect of gonadectomy on subsequent development of age-related cognitive impairment in dogs.

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Jul 1;219(1):51-6.

[poodlefan]

Looks like I'll be one of the people who puts together the Dogs ACT submission on the exposure draft Steve.

Thanks for the bibliography.

[MalteseLuna]

Hard Topic.

I personally think all pets should be desexed unless shown, meant for breeding (in a registered breeding program) or for health related reasons (this could be dog sport related).

I think that too many people have oooopppsss litters or think of making a quick buck.

I don't like the idea of a law that makes this so though. De-sexing age is different for each dog, situation and sometimes breed. i.e. small dogs often can't be desexed until a certain size or age as they are simply too small (and vets won't preform the operation).

I would like to see more vets preforming tubal ligation etc - surgery that makes it impossible for the dog to breed but does not remove all sex hormones (therefore development should be normal).

I would prefer to have laws ceasing the sale of pets (dogs and cats) in pet shops. There is no reason for puppies to be sold in these situations. Much better to have a referral system.

A friend who works as a vet nurse at RSPCA NSW told me of an 8 week old Cav puppy that was surrendered 24 hours after an impulse buy at a pet shop. Puppy was surrendered because it peed on the floor and made too much noise. This is why dogs and cats shouldn't be sold in pet shops where impulse buys occur. Additionally the source of the dogs in pet shops is another problem that I would like to see the RSPCA focus on.

Instead of wasting money changing laws why does the RSPCA not offer more free de-sexing days or the government give desexing rebates?

Enforce the laws we have or give incentives to promote responsible pet ownership.

[Aidan]

What is the point of banning pets being displayed in the window ?

One only has to step inside the door to buy them. People don't just buy what is in the window from shops.

This won't achieve anything.

It will. Advertising works. It just won't achieve enough.

[asal]

Trouble is far as i can see,,, you no longer have rights if you are a pet owner...

its interesting.. they talk of you having the right to make your own decisions,, if you kill someone you are innocent until proven guilty.. although that Gabe watson (is that his name?) can kill his wife of 11 days.. do a plea bargain... get 18 months.. and... the very same govt lawers that got him that fairy smack... wont let him be taken to the states until THEY are guaranteed he wont face the death penalty over there.... that guy HAS RIGHTS...

as for the dead wife? dont see her getting parole or rehabilitation any time soon.

BUT you want a pet dog or cat or whatever and what are u? GUILTY UNTIL proven innocent,, and anyway if you do attract attention and they cant find something to charge you with the smoke taint never lifts...

is this world sick and getting sicker by the minute??

looks like it to me anyway

[bernym]

What bothers me the most about domestic pets in Australia is that over 100,000 of them are euthanised every year, not because they are sick, bad, or dangerous - but because they are unwanted.

Yet there are so many more being deliberately and accidentally bred to add to this amount. None of it makes sense to me.

Desexing really is the only thing that can stop this.

I sadly doubt, laws or not, that I will ever see this society getting to the point where we stop euthanising good animals simply because we have over-bred.

[asal]

Well its got me buggered how any one can say they care about preventing dogs from suffering and still push for early age desexing - especially when you can advocate for only purebreds to be given the chance to get out of it or purebred dog owners to be able to make an informed decision about what is best for their dog in conjunction with their vet.

The introduction of mandatory sterilisation needlessly and recklessly interferes with the traditional relationship between veterinarians and their clients. The decision to perform surgery on a pet should be made, weighing risks and benefits, by the pet owner in consultation with their vet.

In addition, any regulation which establishes an arbitrary age as the standard for mandatory sterilisation ignores the variables between breeds and scientific research.

The appropriate age for sterilisation is an issue that is ardently debated in the animal arena, with well documented medical and behavioural problems that can develop in dogs that are sterilised too early.

The decision to sterilise any animal must remain with pet owners, in conjunction with their Veterinarian, and the decision must be based on education and knowledge rather than through a lack of choice and government legislation.

Numerous Peer reviewed studies discuss the Possible Negative effects of early sterilisation. [see references ]

Negative, sterilisation male dogs:

• If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis;
  
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6;
  
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism;
  
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment;
  
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems;
  
• quadruples the of prostate cancer;
  
• doubles the small risk of urinary tract cancers;
  
• increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and
  
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations.
  

Negative, spaying female dogs:

• If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis;
  
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds;
  
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism;
  
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems;
  
• causes urinary "spay incontinence" in 4-20% of female dogs;
  
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4;
  
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty;
  
• doubles the small risk of urinary tract tumours;
  
• increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and
  
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations.
  

sorry steve

asked the question in the wrong thread

cheers

Edited December 10, 2010 by asal

[asal]

Hard Topic.

I personally think all pets should be desexed unless shown, meant for breeding (in a registered breeding program) or for health related reasons (this could be dog sport related).

I think that too many people have oooopppsss litters or think of making a quick buck.

I don't like the idea of a law that makes this so though. De-sexing age is different for each dog, situation and sometimes breed. i.e. small dogs often can't be desexed until a certain size or age as they are simply too small (and vets won't preform the operation).

I would like to see more vets preforming tubal ligation etc - surgery that makes it impossible for the dog to breed but does not remove all sex hormones (therefore development should be normal).

I would prefer to have laws ceasing the sale of pets (dogs and cats) in pet shops. There is no reason for puppies to be sold in these situations. Much better to have a referral system.

A friend who works as a vet nurse at RSPCA NSW told me of an 8 week old Cav puppy that was surrendered 24 hours after an impulse buy at a pet shop. Puppy was surrendered because it peed on the floor and made too much noise. This is why dogs and cats shouldn't be sold in pet shops where impulse buys occur. Additionally the source of the dogs in pet shops is another problem that I would like to see the RSPCA focus on.

Instead of wasting money changing laws why does the RSPCA not offer more free de-sexing days or the government give desexing rebates?

Enforce the laws we have or give incentives to promote responsible pet ownership.

thats a no brainer....more laws mean more chance of catching more fish. like judy guard

makes it easier to raise income levels

[Steve]

What bothers me the most about domestic pets in Australia is that over 100,000 of them are euthanised every year, not because they are sick, bad, or dangerous - but because they are unwanted.

Yet there are so many more being deliberately and accidentally bred to add to this amount. None of it makes sense to me.

Desexing really is the only thing that can stop this.

I sadly doubt, laws or not, that I will ever see this society getting to the point where we stop euthanising good animals simply because we have over-bred.

Alright Ill bite how will desexing stop this? The demand for puppies is still the same so eliminating oops litters simply means someone else will breed them.

Thisis irresponsible breeding problem is an irresponsible owner problem and all this does is ensure we have more sick desexed dogs and more sick desexed dogs coming into pounds.

But we can blame the breeder for that too.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve

[klink]

Quote: "Other measures include tighter restrictions for pet shops and higher fines for animal cruelty." end quote. 'Proposed animal laws 'smart': RSPCA' ABC News. Dec 9, 2010.

Gets my vote

Although what I think is needed is a curb on impulse buying.

Prospective pet owners should be required to substantiate a full and complete plan, something akin to being 'vetted' by breeders when they inquire about animals.

I think , no cross that out I KNOW you are on the right track with your comments re impulse buying, you cant' do it with firearms, you cant' buy a drivers' licence on the spot you have cooling off periods for many purchases so why not?

If we are all really serious about our love of dogs' and/or other animals why would you be concerned about some restraints on the impulse buying of a pet for '" little johnnie " in the days' particularly coming up to xmas.

If you wish to buy a pet for your child plan ahead, dont' just walk into your local shopping complex and walk out with a totally unplanned pet. How about we all get real and put the welfare of our animals above the rush and the greed for money at all cost. Lets' make sure that the poor animals that are flogged every year get a fair chance at a decent life.

[Steve]

Look no doubt about it they need a mandatory code for pet shops - the fact they dont have that yet is amazing but why drag breeders who are doing the right thing into their crap and take away our rights to make decsions whcih we think are best for our puppies. Bloody hell! Especially when they already have that filthy law anyway which says they all have to be desexed at 12 weeks. If there's a whole lot of dogs at that age not desexed then obviously they either need to enforce what they already have or chuck it in as a failure.

[Steve]

Quote: "Other measures include tighter restrictions for pet shops and higher fines for animal cruelty." end quote. 'Proposed animal laws 'smart': RSPCA' ABC News. Dec 9, 2010.

Gets my vote

Although what I think is needed is a curb on impulse buying.

Prospective pet owners should be required to substantiate a full and complete plan, something akin to being 'vetted' by breeders when they inquire about animals.

I think , no cross that out I KNOW you are on the right track with your comments re impulse buying, you cant' do it with firearms, you cant' buy a drivers' licence on the spot you have cooling off periods for many purchases so why not?

If we are all really serious about our love of dogs' and/or other animals why would you be concerned about some restraints on the impulse buying of a pet for '" little johnnie " in the days' particularly coming up to xmas.

If you wish to buy a pet for your child plan ahead, dont' just walk into your local shopping complex and walk out with a totally unplanned pet. How about we all get real and put the welfare of our animals above the rush and the greed for money at all cost. Lets' make sure that the poor animals that are flogged every year get a fair chance at a decent life.

Yep I agree but do I have to lose my rights to make decisions on what I think is best for its health to do that?

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve

[klink]

Quote: "Other measures include tighter restrictions for pet shops and higher fines for animal cruelty." end quote. 'Proposed animal laws 'smart': RSPCA' ABC News. Dec 9, 2010.

Gets my vote

Although what I think is needed is a curb on impulse buying.

Prospective pet owners should be required to substantiate a full and complete plan, something akin to being 'vetted' by breeders when they inquire about animals.

I think , no cross that out I KNOW you are on the right track with your comments re impulse buying, you cant' do it with firearms, you cant' buy a drivers' licence on the spot you have cooling off periods for many purchases so why not?

If we are all really serious about our love of dogs' and/or other animals why would you be concerned about some restraints on the impulse buying of a pet for '" little johnnie " in the days' particularly coming up to xmas.

If you wish to buy a pet for your child plan ahead, dont' just walk into your local shopping complex and walk out with a totally unplanned pet. How about we all get real and put the welfare of our animals above the rush and the greed for money at all cost. Lets' make sure that the poor animals that are flogged every year get a fair chance at a decent life.

Yep I agree but do I have to loose my rights to make decisions on what I think is best for its health to do that?

Steve, nobody would be more aware for the need to protect our rights' than myself but the dogs/cats'etc only have us to care for them and if we have to compromise on some things' for this purpose so be it . That does' not mean we simply go along with anything that is put before us without examination and questions and voicing our opinion.

[Steve]

Quote: "Other measures include tighter restrictions for pet shops and higher fines for animal cruelty." end quote. 'Proposed animal laws 'smart': RSPCA' ABC News. Dec 9, 2010.

Gets my vote

Although what I think is needed is a curb on impulse buying.

Prospective pet owners should be required to substantiate a full and complete plan, something akin to being 'vetted' by breeders when they inquire about animals.

I think , no cross that out I KNOW you are on the right track with your comments re impulse buying, you cant' do it with firearms, you cant' buy a drivers' licence on the spot you have cooling off periods for many purchases so why not?

If we are all really serious about our love of dogs' and/or other animals why would you be concerned about some restraints on the impulse buying of a pet for '" little johnnie " in the days' particularly coming up to xmas.

If you wish to buy a pet for your child plan ahead, dont' just walk into your local shopping complex and walk out with a totally unplanned pet. How about we all get real and put the welfare of our animals above the rush and the greed for money at all cost. Lets' make sure that the poor animals that are flogged every year get a fair chance at a decent life.

Yep I agree but do I have to lose my rights to make decisions on what I think is best for its health to do that?

Steve, nobody would be more aware for the need to protect our rights' than myself but the dogs/cats'etc only have us to care for them and if we have to compromise on some things' for this purpose so be it . That does' not mean we simply go along with anything that is put before us without examination and questions and voicing our opinion.

But what gives anyone the right to determine what I should have to compromise on. Ive had entire animals all my life and Ive never had an oops litter - and if I did I would take responsibility for it. Early Desexing isnt something thats best for dogs is something that society wants me to do to my dog in case someone else has an oops litter with their dog and to make my dog pay for someone else being irresponsible. You may think its O.K. to compromise my dog's health in order to make sure someone else isnt going to have an accidental mating but I dont and last time I looked as a property owner its supposed to be my call. If you are going to tell me its O.K. to take away my choice to keep an entire animal but leave me the choice of having my vet kill it - I can have my vet kill it without a second opinion but I cant have its voice lowered - something is radically wrong with this picture.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve

[Steve]

Several weeks ago I was approached by a group who are looking at mounting a class action against local councils which have given pet owners no choice but to have their animals desexed pre 1 year. They have some interesting figures and some good science to back up that as a direct result of taking away their pup's hormones at a young age that their dogs suffer various issues throughout their lives. That their health and welfare is affected and longevity is reduced. Laws which remove basic property rights given to us way back with the Magna Carta and cause a property owner to take actions which not only remove their right to make an educated decision but which can also be proven to cause suffering and financial hardship for years of medications and treatments for the owners will cost a bit I think if they go ahead.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve