Your Experiences With The Front Clipping Harness

[Guest Clover]

I have used both the Premier no pull harness and the Gentle leader and i found both to be useless. The Premier one she pulled strait out of and the Gentle leader one i found made things worse. I just use martingales for those who need it now.

[leopuppy04]

I've used both the easy walk and the black dog one quite extensively and like both.

The easy walk I had the same issue as Cosmolo and the blackdog - I found initially some problems with the fitting around the chest but Warren assures me they are onto fixing this. The BD one is probably my preferred option but I don't worry about both leads

Did you find there was a technique as such that worked best?

Nope not really - but I never really played with the double ended lead for an extended period as I found little need for it. Hard to explain the exact technique in writing though . The most important is the correct fit, so making sure that the front strap is nice and tight.

I've used both the easy walk and the black dog one quite extensively and like both.

The easy walk I had the same issue as Cosmolo and the blackdog - I found initially some problems with the fitting around the chest but Warren assures me they are onto fixing this. The BD one is probably my preferred option but I don't worry about both leads

Hehe, I've had the "you really must have the double ended leash to go with it" from BD...mmmm no thanks!

I use double endeds with my dogs but it's hard for some clients to get the hang of.

Have you also tried the Sensible LP? I ordered some in when there were none here...I wonder if they've revised the product I should probably take another look.

Nope - hadn't even heard of the sensible brand until just now

[sas]

Nope - hadn't even heard of the sensible brand until just now ;)

Yep it's nice and tight. As soon as the dog get to the ends of the leash she just continues pulling and does it on an angle

I have tried pulsating the lead which is on the front of the harness and I have also tried to apply pressure to the back clip in an upward motion and then turn the dog back in towards me but none of those stop her pulling.

Edited December 12, 2010 by sas

[raineth]

O.k. reading this thread made me pull out the front attaching harness and give it a go with Delta. She actually did quite well with it. But that doesn't mean much as she's already pretty good to take for a walk

yesterday I tried doing that T touch method with Digby (not that he needs it much either) but it was really interesting because he actually shut down when I did it! put his head down, hunched up and didn't move ;)

I can't help but wonder if the front attaching harness is really only good for dogs who naturally don't pull that much?

[ChristineX]

I use a gentle leader front clip (I think) for Duke (one leash only) - who had a massive enough pulling problem (usually 4 feet in the air, and hitting the end like a demented epileptic swordfish). My GP actually wrote out a script for a harness for me! Duke got the harness on during the obedience class time, gave a few shakes, nearly took his legs off, and has been fine ever since. Pulls sometimes, sometimes leans into it, but something about it calms him down where the normal round the neck types seem to stress him out. Those few times where he has gone leaping, he has been swung around to face me which has been pretty useful.

I guess it comes down to whatever suits the dog you have in front of you. Those double leashes, though, sound difficult to master for a person like me with 'clumsy' genes.

[Aidan3]

Those double leashes, though, sound difficult to master for a person like me with 'clumsy' genes.

I've never tried the T-touch method, but I like the double-ended leash because you can attach it to the collar for two reasons (1) safety in case the harness clips break (had it happen with a client's dog, faulty clip, not because the dog was pulling) and (2) so we can wean the dog off the harness, simply by changing where we hold the leash.

Personally, I've not seen too many problems with the front-attaching harness. One is my own dog when my dog walker uses it, I don't know what she does, I can't repeat it even if I try. I suspect he pulled once (probably near the water) and she let him get away with it, despite the leverage. The same rules have to apply, a tight leash gets you no-where. The difference is that you have leverage and if the dog lunges there is a tendency to turn back to you.

[Di*]

Nope - hadn't even heard of the sensible brand until just now

Yep it's nice and tight. As soon as the dog get to the ends of the leash she just continues pulling and does it on an angle

I have tried pulsating the lead which is on the front of the harness and I have also tried to apply pressure to the back clip in an upward motion and then turn the dog back in towards me but none of those stop her pulling.

Sas

Before you give up, you could try (if you haven't already done so and you have the inclination to have another go):

1.Being positioned next to the dog's shoulder.

2. Holding the leash as close to the dog as possible

3. With a double leash, having one end of the leash in each hand

4. Not "holding" the leash but have it running across the palm of each hand (I imagine it is how you hold the reins on a horse but since I don't ride, I could be completely wrong)

5. Having your hands positioned roughly parallel and highish but apart.

6. If the dog pulls, stroke the back attaching lead in movements towards your body

I had never tried a harness until after attending a T-Touch workshop. Only ever used martingale collars. I found it worked well with my reactive girl (but she's just a tiny dog). She heels beautifully when in obedience class but can be reactive to other dogs on our regular walks on home turf. The harness seems to reduce this reactivity.

Di

[sas]

Nope - hadn't even heard of the sensible brand until just now

Yep it's nice and tight. As soon as the dog get to the ends of the leash she just continues pulling and does it on an angle

I have tried pulsating the lead which is on the front of the harness and I have also tried to apply pressure to the back clip in an upward motion and then turn the dog back in towards me but none of those stop her pulling.

Sas

Before you give up, you could try (if you haven't already done so and you have the inclination to have another go):

1.Being positioned next to the dog's shoulder.

2. Holding the leash as close to the dog as possible

3. With a double leash, having one end of the leash in each hand

4. Not "holding" the leash but have it running across the palm of each hand (I imagine it is how you hold the reins on a horse but since I don't ride, I could be completely wrong)

5. Having your hands positioned roughly parallel and highish but apart.

6. If the dog pulls, stroke the back attaching lead in movements towards your body

I had never tried a harness until after attending a T-Touch workshop. Only ever used martingale collars. I found it worked well with my reactive girl (but she's just a tiny dog). She heels beautifully when in obedience class but can be reactive to other dogs on our regular walks on home turf. The harness seems to reduce this reactivity.

Di

That's what I have been doing.

I just walked her on a martingale today and she was 80% better.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

My dog pulled like a tractor with caterpillar treads before I got the front attach harness. The noseband stopped her pulling but she tended to walk with her shoulder forward and her head pulled back towards me - no matter how light a lead I put on it, and I was scared to put a webbing lead on because she can chomp through a standard one in three bites. But I did. And she didn't but I didn't give her a chance. Hard work for both of us.

Front attach harness (sensible) much easer for me and I could quite easily demonstrate the difference to other people, all I'd have to do is get them to hold the lead attached to flat collar and walk away from my dog, - she'd pull after me in full crawl mode, and then swap the lead to the front attach, and walk away again... and she couldn't do it - took the power out of it.

[sas]

I think this thread has demonstrated quite well that not all training aids / tools are suitable for all dogs.

This dog in particular is not responsive to the front clipping harness with a range of different methods tried, so we'll just stick with the half check martingale and just spend more time with the new family teaching timing of corrections and so forth.

I'm glad the front clipping harness has worked for some people though.

swap the lead to the front attach, and walk away again... and she couldn't do it - took the power out of it.

My foster dog has absolutely no problem being able to pull on the front clip harness, she just does it on an angle.

Edited December 12, 2010 by sas

[raineth]

I think this thread has demonstrated quite well that not all training aids / tools are suitable for all dogs.

This dog in particular is not responsive to the front clipping harness with a range of different methods tried, so we'll just stick with the half check martingale and just spend more time with the new family teaching timing of corrections and so forth.

I'm glad the front clipping harness has worked for some people though.

swap the lead to the front attach, and walk away again... and she couldn't do it - took the power out of it.

My foster dog has absolutely no problem being able to pull on the front clip harness, she just does it on an angle.

that was Digby!

Hey I had a funny thought about the front clipping harness, and maybe why it doesn't suit some dogs.

You know how when pressure is applied it compresses around their shoulders? Well it made me think that maybe some dogs actually find that reinforcing. Like Digby loves his thundershirt and finds it relaxing. maybe something similar happens with the front clipping harness - some dogs find the feeling of their shoulders being squeezed and therefore would deliberately pull to get that feeling?

[Nekhbet]

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Edited December 14, 2010 by Nekhbet

[sas]

amazing how complicated we make walking a dog

I dont like them. I see them simply rubbing or constricting movement in a very poor manner especially the ones that pull the elbows foreward and in how that is 'gentler' is beyond me

Well you see if it's me and my dog I just stick to my check chain or half check but new adoptive families find the timing hard on those so I though the front clipping harness would be easier WELL! Bit wrong there!

[Nekhbet]

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Edited December 14, 2010 by Nekhbet

[sas]

how is timing so hard? If it is too hard to learn some basic dog training maybe reconsider if the family is up to handling that dog in general.

I tell people, its like a reverse poke as soon as the dog puts any pressure on the leash at all.

I'm not going to say no to an awesome family because they have trouble picking up correct timing for a check chain or half check in one session.

Wow, sorry but that comment was so rude and uneducated from someone whose meant to be fairly educated in training circles.

I don't think very many foster carers even give training on a training aid/tool for the new families, I do because I think it's important.

What you consider 'basic' others do not. Learning how to Heel a dog is the single hardest thing many dog owners have problems with so I think you need to take a step back with all your training savvy attitude and experience and remember what it's like for someone whose never trained a dog to heel - timing is not something that comes easy to alot of people - just the same as clicker training - it's a timing thing.

How about you go and tell all those clients of yours who come to you to learn to heel their dog to re-home their dog because if they can't even grasp a 'basic' concept they shouldn't have the dog........sounds rather silly doesn't it.

Edited December 14, 2010 by sas

[abed]

how is timing so hard? If it is too hard to learn some basic dog training maybe reconsider if the family is up to handling that dog in general.

I tell people, its like a reverse poke as soon as the dog puts any pressure on the leash at all.

I'm not going to say no to an awesome family because they have trouble picking up correct timing for a check chain or half check in one session.

Wow, sorry but that comment was so rude and uneducated from someone whose meant to be fairly educated in training circles.

I don't think very many foster carers even give training on a training aid/tool for the new families, I do because I think it's important.

What you consider 'basic' others do not. Learning how to Heel a dog is the single hardest thing many dog owners have problems with so I think you need to take a step back with all your training savvy attitude and experience and remember what it's like for someone whose never trained a dog to heel - timing is not something that comes easy to alot of people - just the same as clicker training - it's a timing thing.

How about you go and tell all those clients of yours who come to you to learn to heel their dog to re-home their dog because if they can't even grasp a 'basic' concept they shouldn't have the dog........sounds rather silly doesn't it.

I agree with Nekhbet's perspective and if more people took her approach, the whole dog scene would be better off for it IMHO. It can be difficult for some people to train a dog to walk nicely on leash and the founders of these management tools like harneses and halti's know this also and capitalise on this from a commercial perspective designing and selling contraptions to supposedly make an average dog owner's life easier. But these contraptions are not training tools and long term they don't achieve a training goal of resulting in a well behaved reliable leash walker. Nothing IMHO works better than proper training and really if people are not prepared to do some proper training and learn how to handle a dog, it's the same as letting people out on the road who want a car who are not prepared to learn how to drive one effeciently. It's not that there is a lack of trainers or training classes available and personally I think that passing and holding a basic obedience licence or certificate should be part and parcel of dog ownership. Dogs come in all shapes, sizes and drive/strength levels and there is a dog out their to suit most people if they are matched up properly

Edited December 14, 2010 by abed

[sas]

I don't train my own dogs on halters or front clipping harnesses or anything like that HOWEVER I totally support anyone wanting to use which ever tool is best for their dog and the tool / aid which allows them to control their dog effectively so they can walk it so it's not left in the backyard.

I find heel training very simple and straight forward using a check chain / half check but I'm not ignorant enough to think everyone else should be able to, I've seen alot of people struggle with the timing in the initial stages and I see that as perfectly normal, they tend to master it down the track if they keep with it.

Loads of people don't subscribe to check chains and prefer methods such as Susan Garrets Halter method or other positive trainers Front Clipping Harness methods - each to their own, whatever if right for the dog.

I'm NOT going to NOT allow a rescue dog I've pulled out of the pound have a home because the new family may have not used the training tool / aid I use and are a bit clumsy with it to start with.

I don't think there's one new adoptive family that haven't gone onto training clubs with their new dogs, I'm trying to make the transition as painless as possible, I could very well not even do any training with the foster dog and just send it off to a new family pulling like a crazy thing and leave the ball in their court but that would be irresponsible in my books, the least I can do is get the dog started and if there is a tool to make that transition easier for the new owners why not use it until they start to learn their own new skills at a training club.

I want to make something really clear because this is what you and Nek don't seem to get...when a family comes to pick up a foster dog to take it home I run them through how to walk to the dog in the manner I have taught it - it is very reasonable that they don't pick it up straight away - the foster dog will usually sense their uncertainity and test them and I expect that.

Edited December 14, 2010 by sas

[Nekhbet]

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Edited December 14, 2010 by Nekhbet

[wuffles]

I don't know if it's my place to butt into this thread, but I mix with a lot of "average" dog owners. I also mix with a lot of people whom I consider good dog trainers, some that have multiple obedience titles on their dogs and some that just train manners but you can see they have a natural ability with dogs. I would say that over 50% of them have difficulties getting their dog to walk on a loose leash, no matter what "tool" they use. Some people have taught a beautiful competition heel but cannot get their dogs to walk on a loose leash. Some don't have a clue whatsoever about training their dogs and their dogs walk right by their side.

I have one dog that walks on a loose leash naturally and one that is a constant struggle. If I stuck a check chain on either of them and did nothing but give a "reverse poke" I can almost guarantee they wouldn't pay any attention. Front attach harness for us meant more walks, more training time, more enjoyment.

sas, I think it's great that you are trying to find the right tools to set your foster dogs' new owners up for success

[raineth]

Nekhbet,

Sas is not talking about a Dane. She is talking about a little mix breed foster pup; who i don't think is going to grow to be that big.

I also know plenty of people who have beautifully behaved, well looked after dogs, but the dogs still pull a bit on lead. I definitely don't think these people don't qualify to have dogs simply because they haven't/can't train a really nice loose leash walk.