Three Bad Experiences, Irresponsible Dog Owner, Naughty Dog Nasty Jogg

[persephone]

It's life.

Sh*t happens ...

[raz]

It's life.

Sh*t happens ...

Sooo are you saying we should just accept that some lazy dog owner throws a bag of shit in the ocean, we shouldnt be mindful of our dogs chasing joggers and that it's OK for someone to allow their dog to attack another in a dog park? Sorry Pers, but I'm not understanding.

[persephone]

apologies- that doesn't look right

To me it is just normal life that stuff like that happens .... we humans are capable of all sorts of behaviour which upsets others .We can do our bit to try & correct /avoid at the time , but then the moment passes ... so what? There will be more sh*it tomorrow again...

yes, people 'should' be responsible ... but it's not unusual to be in close contact with those who aren't.

Edited December 9, 2010 by persephone

[raz]

apologies- that doesn't look right

No probs. I know shit happens but we can do our best to avoid it for as long as possible. The OP brought up some good points.

[Monah]

I'm really pedantic in how I feel about anyone not watching/keeping, their kids or dogs etc. with them I know that makes me sound like a grumpy old woman (true) but I really loathe it, I dont expect or want anyone to keep an eye on my kids or dogs, not even OH

[corvus]

Oh, please. My point was there is no such thing as 100%. If my dogs are brats one time in 500, am I seriously going to see that one time coming and keep them on leash?

First you said once in 100, now it's once in 500. Oh please. I dont care - once is enough, like the kid across the road said when she watched two dogs rip hers apart. Oh sorry sorry. It never happened before. Too late. The kid's dog was dead.

Being a brat is a far cry from tearing a dog apart. By that reasoning no one should ever let their dogs off leash seeing as 100% DOESN'T EXIST. Why, how can I live with myself taking my dogs out at all without a muzzle?? It only takes once.

A line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm saying let's draw it in reality. That doesn't mean we don't pick up after someone that throws rubbish in the ocean, or that we let dogs that don't mix well with others mix to their hearts content and watch mayhem ensue. It just means we be reasonable about unlikely variables in dog (and human) behaviour. It's unreasonable to talk in absolutes when it comes to behaviour, because behaviour rarely exists in absolutes.

[Skitch]

Was the beach where you met the 'nasty jogger' even allowed to have dogs offlead? Just be thankful he didn't kick your dog or worse..

And your third scenario is precisely why I stay away from dog parks! We've had bad experiences like that too.. it's just too unpredictable and dog parks seem to be frequented by people who have little/no control over their dogs

[Staff'n'Toller]

Thanks for all your replies.

Yes the growly dog (a boxer) belonged to a friend / regular dog park user and I've never seen it get into a fight before, not even close. It would rather run away. I don't get how so many people think it is fine for dogs to rush up to dogs they don't know. But in this case the dogs knew each other but the attacking dog - a Golden Retriever!!! had attacked other dogs before so I think it is the one that needs better control. That owner has no control. The owner of the boxer is a bit slack as far as watching her dog, but we all look out for each other and most people there can get distracted by a chat - as I do. My unfavourite is when I let someone know their dog has done a number 2, and that's when my dog sneaks one in. But usually I find it or someone lets me know for which most of us are grateful.

A Boxer growling is not a Boxer running away. Unfortunately your friend's dog may get itself into more trouble growling at other 'out of control' dogs in the future. I'm sure your friend doesn't want her Boxer rehearsing those types of behaviour, whether it's fear based or resource guarding.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller

[kelpiechick]

The owner of the boxer is a bit slack as far as watching her dog, but we all look out for each other and most people there can get distracted by a chat - as I do.

Which is the exact reason why I never go to offlead dog areas unless I am sure there won't be anyone else there or the area is big enough to avoid those standing around socialising (seems to be the majority) instead of actually involving themselves with exercising their dogs.

Being distracted by a chat is an accident waiting to happen.

Outdoor cafes are for chatting, dog parks are for exercising 100% duty of care.

[raz]

Outdoor cafes are for chatting, dog parks are for exercising 100% duty of care.

Hear Hear! I was watching people in the dog park this morning - 1 person on her laptop, 1 guy reading his newspaper and half a dozen people all having a gossip while their dogs crapped and fought. Fantastic. Any wonder people in my suburb were up in arms when the dog park was first proposed. And it was actually dog owners who were against it because they knew this would happen. Non dog owners thought it would be great because it would leave the dog shit off the pavements (nup. Still happening) and keep offleash dogs in an offleash area (nup. People still let their dogs loose in prohibited areas).

[poodlefan]

Corvus:

It's unreasonable to talk in absolutes when it comes to behaviour, because behaviour rarely exists in absolutes.

Here's an absolute.

I absolutely refuse to use populated public dog parks because in my experience many users either can't recognise when their dog's behaviour is inappropriate, can't control their dogs sufficiently to stop that behaviour or both.

Dog parks seem to attract fools like flies to honey IMO.

Edited December 9, 2010 by poodlefan

[corvus]

I don't know what we'd do without our dog parks. Our yard certainly isn't big enough for the boys to get a proper run. I've found the friendships I've made with fellow dog-park denizens to be quite valuable. We have watched each other's dogs grow up, been a sympathetic ear when dogs have become old and died, shared information on care and training, helped each other with young dogs still learning the rules, and watched our dogs make human and canine friends. My dogs are known fondly by a lot of people around about. I consider that a very valuable network should my dogs ever go missing. We chat, like people do, and we watch our own and each other's dogs. There are always people that are not watching their dogs, but there are always people that are not watching their kids. You look out for them as well as your own because someone's got to. We steer clear of the fenced parks because in our experience people use them as an excuse to let the dogs do what they like while they do what they like, but haven't had insurmountable troubles with the unfenced parks and beaches. People walk all the time in those, so the dogs get up to less mischief.

ETA That's your prerogative, PF, and I don't begrudge you of it for a second. You are welcome to think me and anyone else who uses dog parks an idiot if that's what makes you happy. It doesn't change the fact that behaviour rarely exists in absolutes, though.

Edited December 10, 2010 by corvus

[poodlefan]

I don't know what we'd do without our dog parks. Our yard certainly isn't big enough for the boys to get a proper run. I've found the friendships I've made with fellow dog-park denizens to be quite valuable. We have watched each other's dogs grow up, been a sympathetic ear when dogs have become old and died, shared information on care and training, helped each other with young dogs still learning the rules, and watched our dogs make human and canine friends. My dogs are known fondly by a lot of people around about. I consider that a very valuable network should my dogs ever go missing. We chat, like people do, and we watch our own and each other's dogs. There are always people that are not watching their dogs, but there are always people that are not watching their kids. You look out for them as well as your own because someone's got to. We steer clear of the fenced parks because in our experience people use them as an excuse to let the dogs do what they like while they do what they like, but haven't had insurmountable troubles with the unfenced parks and beaches. People walk all the time in those, so the dogs get up to less mischief.

I get all of that at my dog club.

I don't consider off leash running areas to be "dog parks" in the way the fenced ones are. People with no control at all over their dogs only let them offlead in the fenced ones and its those I avoid like the plague.

Watched someone be dragged by their large dog to the new one in Belconnen a few months back - was damn glad mine weren't in there when it was let loose.

[Red Fox]

1. That woman sounds mentally unstable, I wouldn't want to see her again. In fact she sounds like someone to actively avoid.

2. Jogger sounds like a bit of a dick but technically he is in the right. You do need to control your dog...

3. It's a dog park -aka free for all. The incident has been reported, the council might do something. Sounds like a good place to aviod IMO.

Here's an absolute.

I absolutely refuse to use populated public dog parks because in my experience many users either can't recognise when their dog's behaviour is inappropriate, can't control their dogs sufficiently to stop that behaviour or both.

Dog parks seem to attract fools like flies to honey IMO.

PF, I agree with you 100%. I'd rather run my dog on a quiet oval, in the rain, at a time of day when no other idiot would bother to venture out, than risk a public dog park.

*EFS

Edited December 10, 2010 by SecretKei

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'm not perfect, but I watch my dog more and have better control than most other people I share the off lead spaces with, and I practice control exercises and recall on and off - for the whole walk.

The best exercise my farm dog bitza can get in the city is a good zoomie or wrestle with other dogs who match her play as she matches theirs. She leaves old dogs alone, and is gentle with puppies, the boarding kennel staff love her cos they can let her exercise with any other dog and she will play how it likes to play. I wish all dogs were like that but they're not.

Police dog - eating SWF - I'd still make an exception for a *working* police dog - if they're hunting bad guys and if the SWF is supposed to be on lead or rushes a working police dog... It is interesting that with all their training, 100% recall isn't always one of the things they're working for. I couldn't get anything useful training or technique wise from the police dog trainers that visited AWL re-union, and their dogs stayed in their crates. A pity, but it was a very popular stand. I've also seen the tracker dogs out working and it is very interesting to watch. They often find the bad guys.

As I thought I said before - the beach was off lead allowed at the time. If the jogger had not made all sorts of weird noises and then yelled at me, my dog would never have gone anywhere near him. Seriously she leaves most joggers alone. Joggers can help me help them, or they can encourage a dog to bark at them, but I agree, I should have seen that new thing coming and stopped my dog before she could make that mistake.

There were no joggers on the beach this morning. It was 100% dog walkers and all the dogs and owners were nice. The weather was a little bit wild and stormy.

I also avoid the fenced dog parks, because of badly behaved dogs, owners that don't pick up, badly behaved owners, and the parks are too small to allow free running. It would be very sad if I couldn't run the dog at the beach because there is a risk, smaller than the risk of pranging the car on the way, that she would hurt something or be hurt by something.

Can't defend the boxer any more - my dog doesn't do what he does and she makes more friends. But I still think the GR should be off the park. We will have to see. I will be avoiding our oval doggy christmas party or at least not taking my dog because it is the worst example of owners not paying attention to bad behavior by their dogs including dogs stealing food from children and owners refusing to replace it. Sigh. Not to mention all the crap everywhere. I pick up most craps I see (when it's not too overwhelming) because I figure I'll be the one that steps in it next time (karma crap), and last Christmas I spent the entire time I was there with my dog on lead with me while I picked up other dogs craps. Sucks big time.

I have heard of dog parks in the USA where the area is supervised and owners with dogs that between them are agressive or don't clean up, get kicked out. In fact the dogs are tested for aggression before they're allowed out there. I guess in the bigger cities in Australia - it's only a matter of time before parks like that will become economic. I have also heard that there are dogs in North America that show up for agility training that have never had the opportunity to run flat out in their lives. Sad.

There must be a balance between obnoxious out of control dogs and owners and people trying to do the right thing.

[raz]

There were no joggers on the beach this morning. It was 100% dog walkers and all the dogs and owners were nice. The weather was a little bit wild and stormy.

There was actually. That's what your thread is about - a jogger on the beach. What is it - no jogger on the beach or a jogger on the beach?

your quote

There must be a balance between obnoxious out of control dogs and owners and people trying to do the right thing.

Urmmm yeah.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Same beach, different day.

Last Saturday morning - weird jogger. (lots of other boring joggers too and toddlers - which were no problem or interest to my dog)

This morning (Friday) - no joggers...

My comment about balance...

This thread is interesting in that some think that unless your dog is 100% perfect and proofed in every situation (including ones you cannot predict, imagine or create test for), then you should never let it off lead. However - how do you test that your dog is 100% proofed then?

My dog is spending a little bit more time on lead at the moment while we do rehab on the training, especially if there is anything around I think she would find distracting.

But some (not posting in this thread) by their actions out there in the dog exercise areas - seem to think that wild dogs are ok.

I think the right balance is between... hence my poorly worded "comment"

Edited December 10, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[raz]

This thread is interesting in that some think that unless your dog is 100% perfect and proofed in every situation (including ones you cannot predict, imagine or create test for), then you should never let it off lead. However - how do you test that your dog is 100% proofed then?

You started the thread - you got the answers. Not sure why you dont like it. Maybe it's because just about everyone told you that you were at fault with the jogger. You were. Sorry if you dont like that - you were at fault.

How did you go with the report to Council?

[poodlefan]

Corvus:

You are welcome to think me and anyone else who uses dog parks an idiot if that's what makes you happy

What makes me happy is people who read what I say without immediately concluding that its a personal insult.

I said:

Dog parks seem to attract fools like flies to honey IMO.

You don't use fenced dog parks. That's what I was talking about. I said as much.

You can be foolish without being stupid. Being deficient in judgement or understanding has bugger all to do with IQ and it is readily apparent to a dog savvy observer that many dog park users have little understanding of what constitutes normal or appropriate dog behaviour and even less capacity to deal with inappropriate behaviour when it occurs.

A foolish dog owner in my opinion is one who trusts their dogs' safety to others. This forum has plenty of stories about what can happen when we allow others the responsibility for the safety of our dogs. I believe it can be foolish to confuse good luck with good choices. Intelligence levels won't save your dog when the shit hits the fan.

I'm hardly alone in my opinion for what its worth. Many dog training professionals regard public dog parks as accidents waiting to happen.

Edited December 10, 2010 by poodlefan

[jazawayaya]

This thread is interesting in that some think that unless your dog is 100% perfect and proofed in every situation (including ones you cannot predict, imagine or create test for), then you should never let it off lead. However - how do you test that your dog is 100% proofed then?

You started the thread - you got the answers. Not sure why you dont like it. Maybe it's because just about everyone told you that you were at fault with the jogger. You were. Sorry if you dont like that - you were at fault.

How did you go with the report to Council?

Its a good question. How DO you know if your dog is 100% unless you test it? Please answer I would like to know.