Three Bad Experiences, Irresponsible Dog Owner, Naughty Dog Nasty Jogg

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

three bad experiences, never think of the right come back line until it's too late.

First one - at the beach - a woman has two jack russel type dogs, one is barking a lot. The relatively quiet one does a crap which woman pretends not to see so I offer her a bag and she picks it up. Then she walks off with her dogs, I call my dog back to me because clearly barking dog is upset by my dog's presense - despite my dog doing the commando crawl grovel.

Barking dog is still barking, woman grabs dog by collar, rubs its head into the sand (Cesar Milan Alpha roll method) then gives it several taps on the head with her throwing stick. Lets dog go and it continues to bark (so how's that training technique working for you?). I decide I can't be near this woman so I slow down my walk until she is further up the beach and I have a vent to a nice lady with a border collie puppy.

And as we progress up the beach, I see the bag with the crap - IN THE WATER. I am shocked. I know it's my bag because it has my council name on it not the local council name. I contemplate running up the beach to yell at this woman.

Border collie owner continues up beach and I go back to my car with my dog and home (put bag in bin on the way). We meet up again the next day and she confirms yappying jack russell lady was no longer carrying the bag when she got a close look the day before.

What would you do if you see that woman again? If she wasn't prepared to put bag in the bin she should have been honest about it. I would have done it for her but what a horrible person.

Second bad experience:

A couple of days later at the beach (hot week), I'd just finished a session of obedience moves with my dog including recall and heel and about turn, sit, drop etc and set her "free". A jogger comes up the beach and attracts both our attention because he's huffing and snorting like a stroppy possum. So my dog runs around him barking. She doesn't touch him and as I try to get her attention back - the jogger starts yelling abuse at me about how I have an uncontrollable dog and it should be on lead and not at the beach etc etc. I get my dog's attention and he goes away, but I can't catch her immediately, she thinks we're into a great game of "chase me".

I should have turned it into a game of chase the boss, but my brain switched off when the jogger started yelling at me. My dog doesn't normally chase joggers. She will quite happily ignore a whole football team of joggers. She will chase me when I run away. I've trained her to do that. All I could think later was there was something special about possum breath that she picked out - maybe the fact that he likes to abuse women - except I'm pretty sure she wanted to play with him like she mistook him for another dog. Anyway my bad for not anticipating her bad behaviour or being able to think when being yelled at. Sigh.

Third bad experience: dog fight at local park - why me?

So I had just packed up treats after sharing with my dog and another dog. A third dog came charging up to us, and the other dog was caught by surprise and did a warning "back off" growl. The third dog went beserk and attacked the dog that growled. Not just a bluff and huff but full on teeth and grabbed hold of the now upside down dog, by the back end and shook. The ex growly dog was now bleeding. The third dog's owner came from the far side of the oval and pulled her dog out by its tail. And then she lets it go and of course it jumps straight back on the ex growly dog and rips in some more. Meantime I catch my dog to stop her from running circles and barking (several other dogs were now also doing this). Great.

Attacking dog's owner was extremely angry that none of the rest of us helped her. How were we supposed to help her?

I went and told some of the others whose dogs were barking that a dog was bleeding and they might want to get their dogs away from the vicious one. And I got the bleeding dog's owner to check for injuries - she had no idea since her dog had run to her and then sat on its most obvious wound.

Attacking dog's owner did not try to find out whether the other dog was ok, or apologise or offer any help there. The bleeding dog's owner wasn't watching her dog and only saw what happened afterwards.

Today there was a similar situation with the same bleeding dog growled at another dog, no food involved and that dog backed off appropriately and there was no fight. The injury had cost $120 for vet inspection, cleanup and antibiotics for the puncture wounds. Bleeding dog seems ok, and functioning well although quite stiff for a while.

I reported dog fight to council. Attacking dog not wearing council rego tag so could be done for that alone. Though I'm not sure how much I want to get its owner in trouble. However she now has a very big undesexed male dog who is attacking other dogs (this was not the first time according to others) and she's also pissing off the grounds keeper because this dog keeps digging holes in the freshly watered cricket pitch. Owner has zero control over it and no recall whatsoever, was offered top level dog training help, that I would have taken up in a second, and she turned it down.

I'm not sure what to do next or if I see them again. The attacking dog is usually at that park much earlier than I am but occasionally at the same time. I've had problems with it sitting on my dog and dog lead when I'm trying to go home and I've had to yell at the owner to get it off us, so we can leave. Really really obnoxious dog and it's all the owner's fault.

So what would you guys do - if you see any of these people again, or if this happens to you?

Edited December 8, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Guest Willow]

Ok....quick answers cos I'm tired & off to bed.....

1. There's not much you can do other than catch her in the act (and provide evidence) of her not picking up her poo which is an offence.

2. Unfortunately, you really were in the wrong here, and if I was that jogger, I would have yelled too. Be thankful he didn't report you, as he was well within his rights to. Not having a go....I'm not perfect myself by anymeans, and we all make mistakes. Just chalk that one up to experience.

3. You reported the attacking dog, which was the right thing to do. The growling dog doens't sound like he enjoys dog parks much would prefer to be walked somewhere where he doesn't feel the need to resource guard.....

sorry if these sound blunt.....like I said, I'm knackered & off to bed, but wnated to reply, since you've clearly had a bit of a dramatic day or two!!!!

ETA: If you see the attacking dog at the park & you've had issues before, just leave. It's not worth getting your dog injured to make a point. It's NOT fair that you should have to leave, whilst a troublemaker enjoys the park, but I guess that's why a lot of people avoid them, as they tend to attract trouble.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Willow

[Sayly]

I agree with Willow.

With the jogger, he may have been terrified of dogs, or attacked by one previously. He has a right to jog without being harassed by someone elses dog. It may look like your dog wanted to play to someone experienced with dogs but could quite easily be taken for aggression by someone who isn't dog savvy.

[raz]

I agree with the above ladies as well. If it's not a designated offleash dog beach you'll be lucky if he doesnt report you.

As for the poo woman - what a cranky lazy old bitch. What can you do - not sure aside from catching her doing that again and reporting her (have ranger's mobile number on you). Not just dumping the bag but in the goddamn water seems a bit unstable. I'd be concerned that if you confronted her about it next time, you might be the one that gets whacked on the head with the throwing stick.

Attacking dog - cant really comment because I refuse to use dog parks for precisely that reason but the dog most certainly should have been reported so good on you.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Jack Russells are frequently barky type dogs but that doesn't excuse the woman ignoring the poo and then throwing the bag in the sea but yes, you'd have to catch her doing it.

You are definitely in the wrong re the jogger, noone's psychic and when a dog is behaving as yours did, they are no doubt expecting to be bitten and quite rightly be a bit concerned. You need to keep your dog under control = if you see a jogger coming then put your dog on the lead.

Lastly, report the dog that attacked in the park. Dog parks are dangerous, plenty of the behaviour you describe is annoying, irresponsible and unnecessary if there was proper control. It's why I don't go. Tried it again recently, lucky on the first occasion and then on the second my foster dog was upset by an over the top dog with a drongo owner ... I cannot stand how people stand gossiping and not paying attention, let alone take inappropriate dogs in the park.

Just because a dog growls doesn't mean it deserves to get attacked - that is a total over reaction by the other dog - but basically, neither of those dogs should be in a park, both high risk in different ways.

[sas]

I would have been really annoyed if I were the jogger. You shouldn't let your dogs off lead if you don't have effective control of them.

[corvus]

1. Some people are filthy, lazy pigs. We usually end up picking up after them. That's life. She obviously doesn't care what you think of her, so I would leave her to her ways and just lead by example. Next time I saw her ignore her dog taking a dump I'd hand her a poo bag then offer to take it to the bin for her. It's not that big a deal.

2. I'm sympathetic of joggers. I'm sure dogs are the bane of their existence. I jog and have had dogs rush out of yards to try to chase me. It can be scary, but to be honest, it's extremely irritating to have your running rhythm disrupted. I blew up at a woman once for flagging me down when I was on a jog to tell me how she was doing a door knock in the area for some political reason she was going to describe to me in some detail. She had no idea how enormously annoying it is to have to stop. This is why we avoid routes with traffic lights! It sounds really petty and selfish, but man, it is just that annoying. Anyway, I just tend to call the dogs over and put them in sits when a jogger goes past. Neither have ever chased joggers, but it's a courtesy. I'm saying "It's okay, I've got them under control." No idea if it ever gets noticed, but that's okay.

3. What can you do? Keep out of the way, warn other people, leave if you see the dog. You've already reported it, so I don't know that there's much more you can do.

[Monah]

I agree with the other posters too.

You had a few awful experiences, I am sorry.

Could be best to avoid those sorts of places.

as far as the poo bag lady goes, there is not much you can do about it. I just look at people( and hope they think twice) if I see this, but don't take it on board as my responsibility. It sounds like she may have resented the interference, although I too am thoroughly disgusted anyone would put a plastic bag in the sea or not 'pick up'

I don't think you mentioned about the treat episode if the extra dog you gave a treat to was a friends or not? I would be very unhappy if anyone gave my dog a treat whilst we were out and often dogs do resource guard if there are a few dogs around so I can see how something like this may have occurred.

I understand the growly dog growled even when there was not treat and the next dog backed down. I feel this is a disaster waitng to happen as many dogs would not 'back' down from that so the growly dog should not be at liberty to behave this way. Off lead is not the place for a dog who growls at others. Where was this dog's owner too? Did she rescue her dog or help and why was her dog not with her? (maybe it was, but it was not mentioned). I also was wondering if you mean that the dog who was attacked and injured is BACK at the park again? If so, that is not very wise on the owner's part at all.

I was not there but I would have 'helped' if I was next to a dog fight or saw by behaviour that it could occur. Not a great thing to do I admit, but I have done it in the past when I've thought I could handle it. I dont mean sticking arms in to get bitten, but something else that may help. If the owner was a fair way off I couldn't stand back.

I certainly do not excuse the behaviour of the attacking dog at all or the awful irresponsible owner, but when you are out and about with offlead dogs we all need to be very aware and not take for granted that every dog is a happy, sharing, dog friendly animal. Good on you for reporting it too We do not have any dog parks here and I'd not use one if we did. Nightmare.

Look after number one, keep your dog very close and if that is not possible, on lead.

With joggers etc. if I see an oncoming jogger my dogs are right next to me in a sit so that the jogger is not intimidated in any way.

Hope your week improves, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Edited December 8, 2010 by Monah

[aussielover]

1. ughhh I hate people that throw the sh*t away AFTER they have picked it up! It is worse than just leaving it there as it takes forever to break down in a plastic bag.

2. Bad luck with the jogger, you're dog wasn't totally under control, but I do find some of them very rude, like on walking tracks etc some of them practically shove other users out of the way.

3. good on you for reporting the owner and dog. Aggressive dogs should be muzzled at the very minimum and under control of an effective person. I am not sure what you could have done to help the other owner? These days I am too busy with grabbing my own dog and getting her away from the fight to be too concerned with stopping any fights.

Edited December 8, 2010 by aussielover

[jazawayaya]

Agree with the others with the jogger- I would not be happy at all.

Mostly I am wondering if you were at an off lead beach?

Some dogs are just barkers and dont like other dogs coming for them. Mine is one of them. He would have acted the exact same if he was at the beach and another dog was coming towards him. In fact I would have yelled at the dog and/or you to get away from me and my dog. And I would have come on here and had a whinge about it.

Of course I make much better efforts to stop his barking. There is no reason why I should not be allowed at ON LEAD beaches with my DA dog being a bit vocal.

Also I thought a big no-no was food at dog parks?

Disgusting though about the horrible women and the dog crap

[aussielover]

Agree with the others with the jogger- I would not be happy at all.

Mostly I am wondering if you were at an off lead beach?

Some dogs are just barkers and dont like other dogs coming for them. Mine is one of them. He would have acted the exact same if he was at the beach and another dog was coming towards him. In fact I would have yelled at the dog and/or you to get away from me and my dog. And I would have come on here and had a whinge about it.

Of course I make much better efforts to stop his barking. There is no reason why I should not be allowed at ON LEAD beaches with my DA dog being a bit vocal.

Also I thought a big no-no was food at dog parks?

Disgusting though about the horrible women and the dog crap

You should be able to bring food to a dog park imo.

Obviously, giving treats to all the other dogs (without asking the woners permission) is a no-no, I would only give my dog a treat if no other dogs were in close range to us.

Toys, balls, owners, even rocks, sticks and leaves can all potentially cause resource guarding behaviour in the presence of other dogs and removing some of these things would be difficult.

[W Sibs]

1. some people are idiot and inconsiderate.

2. if i was the jogger, i would be upset too. i'm a huge dog lover, but if a dog came running to me barking and carrying on... it would freak me out too. I won't yell at the owner, but I will mention to them that if they can't control their dog, then they shouldn't off leash. it's dangerous.

3. good that you report the fight unfortunately there are idiots dogs owner out there and they should keep a better eye on their dogs at parks too.

[corvus]

I'm glad I don't meet any DOLers when I'm out and about.

They'd shout at me! I don't know what for, but I'm sure they'd find some reason... And they'd probably say things like "should" and "effective control" a lot.

I will say this: my dogs are generally under effective control. They come when called, even when in the middle of approaching a dog to greet them. One time in the hundreds that they have greeted dogs appropriately or come away from dogs the moment they were called, they charged a pair and ignored us when we recalled them. They were being brats rather than bullies, but the dogs they charged didn't know that. My partner and I were mortified and apologised profusely. We could only say they had never done that before and are usually far better behaved. The owner of the dogs accepted our apologies and we held the boys until they had passed us. The boys have never done it since. It's difficult to control everything all the time. No matter how "effective" your control is most of the time, dogs do weird stuff sometimes. One time in a hundred they will do something completely unexpected. Let's get realistic rather than judgemental.

[W Sibs]

I'm glad I don't meet any DOLers when I'm out and about.

They'd shout at me! I don't know what for, but I'm sure they'd find some reason... And they'd probably say things like "should" and "effective control" a lot.

I will say this: my dogs are generally under effective control. They come when called, even when in the middle of approaching a dog to greet them. One time in the hundreds that they have greeted dogs appropriately or come away from dogs the moment they were called, they charged a pair and ignored us when we recalled them. They were being brats rather than bullies, but the dogs they charged didn't know that. My partner and I were mortified and apologised profusely. We could only say they had never done that before and are usually far better behaved. The owner of the dogs accepted our apologies and we held the boys until they had passed us. The boys have never done it since. It's difficult to control everything all the time. No matter how "effective" your control is most of the time, dogs do weird stuff sometimes. One time in a hundred they will do something completely unexpected. Let's get realistic rather than judgemental.

Dogs do weird stuff and have days where they are brat... i know my 2 can be (and if they are, park trip gets cut short).

I mean when people take dogs to the dog park, and they just talk on the phone or do something else and let their dog do whatever. They are the ones i'm refer to idiot owners. There have been many times have I've been to the park and there is a dog running around and the owner is talking on the phone is not paying attention, while their dogs are jumping over everyone, knocking over kids and harrassing other dogs...

[Brennan's Mum]

Agree with other posters about the jogging. I think he had a right to be mad...take it as a learning experience and you now know what you need to work on with your dog

As for situation 3- you did the right thing reporting to council. That is why I avoid dog parks..you can't control who comes in and how trained their dogs are

[raz]

I will say this: my dogs are generally under effective control.

'Generally' isnt good enough. If your dogs arent under effective control 100% of the time, they shouldnt be offleash in a dog park. Pure and simple. Too late if you say - 'oh sorry, sorry, they've never done that before' if the other owner is racing their dog to a vet to be stitched up. It's why these dog parks polarise communities. I'm glad I dont see you when out walking as well because if your dogs behaved like brats near mine, I jolly would shout at you! I would do more than that as well.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Thanks for all your replies.

Yes the growly dog (a boxer) belonged to a friend / regular dog park user and I've never seen it get into a fight before, not even close. It would rather run away. I don't get how so many people think it is fine for dogs to rush up to dogs they don't know. But in this case the dogs knew each other but the attacking dog - a Golden Retriever!!! had attacked other dogs before so I think it is the one that needs better control. That owner has no control. The owner of the boxer is a bit slack as far as watching her dog, but we all look out for each other and most people there can get distracted by a chat - as I do. My unfavourite is when I let someone know their dog has done a number 2, and that's when my dog sneaks one in. But usually I find it or someone lets me know for which most of us are grateful.

It's a cricket/football oval - so there is more room than your average dog park and there are gaps so it's hard for a dog to be cornered in a chase, but if the other dog has it in its mouth then different story. Dogs are supposed to be "under effective control" ie close to owner and come when called. The boxer was, although the owner was looking the wrong way, but the GR was not.

Woman on beach - yes there is just not enough places for people who need mental health care in our state - so I will just have to put it down to that or report her if her dogs have no tags. I didn't get a chance to check last time. Is annoying not to get her on the real attitude problem but getting her off the beach would be a start.

Jogger on the beach - yes my fault. Just haven't proofed my dog against every kind of jogger like the rare noisy weird ones. I'd have had effective control if I could have gotten a word in edgewise - some joggers make it very hard to sort the problem quickly. I did stop her from chasing him immediately, just couldn't actually catch her until he got out of my head (really bad, I needed to change the game but I couldn't think with him yelling at me).

Most joggers, she leaves alone or I can call her back before she gets near them - she leaves them alone. And yes I hate it too if I'm jogging or playing hockey and a dog ends up in the way. I've got really good control but it's not yet 100%. It's more like 99% whiich is still about 25% to 99% better than most other teams out there. It was in the off lead time for dog walking. Most Adelaide suburban beaches are dog off lead before 10am and after 8pm in summer (daylight savings months) but the dogs are supposed to be under effective control - one council ranger described this as "police dog standard", I was thinking "obedience dog club standard" with discount off my rego must be close. If they really mean "police dog standard" they probably should make all the beaches on lead all the time with an exception for working police dogs. There are no jogger or toddler free times - which would be nice. On weekday mornings there is almost nobody there. Gotta love Adelaide.

I'm really careful around small children but need to be more careful / aware where there are runners too.

[corvus]

I will say this: my dogs are generally under effective control.

'Generally' isnt good enough. If your dogs arent under effective control 100% of the time, they shouldnt be offleash in a dog park. Pure and simple. Too late if you say - 'oh sorry, sorry, they've never done that before' if the other owner is racing their dog to a vet to be stitched up. It's why these dog parks polarise communities. I'm glad I dont see you when out walking as well because if your dogs behaved like brats near mine, I jolly would shout at you! I would do more than that as well.

Oh, please. My point was there is no such thing as 100%. If my dogs are brats one time in 500, am I seriously going to see that one time coming and keep them on leash? Having seen that one time in 500 they might be brats, am I going to deny them of their daily off leash run for the sake of a community full of people who have less control over their dogs than I do and usually don't even realise or care if my dogs are being brats?

It is so not "pure and simple". We are talking about a combination of dog behaviour, human behaviour, and environmental variables, here. Nothing could be more complex. My dogs would go mad if they didn't get their off leash run. They are not the only dogs in the neighbourhood that would. I can live with the odd bullies, dogpark brats, and socially crippled canines to share that resource, and I hope they can live with the odd ratbag moment from my dogs in return.

[corvus]

If they really mean "police dog standard" they probably should make all the beaches on lead all the time with an exception for working police dogs.

You don't see police dogs getting walked around off leash much! I know of a police dog that has killed SWFs.

[raz]

Oh, please. My point was there is no such thing as 100%. If my dogs are brats one time in 500, am I seriously going to see that one time coming and keep them on leash?

First you said once in 100, now it's once in 500. Oh please. I dont care - once is enough, like the kid across the road said when she watched two dogs rip hers apart. Oh sorry sorry. It never happened before. Too late. The kid's dog was dead.