Proposed Nuisance Dog Order

[whippets]

We have just recieved a proposed nuisance dog order for 2 of our dogs. They escaped from our new house the day after we moved in. We were told the dogs had attacked a pug who was sitting on a beach which is clearly marked as no dogs allowed, while its owner and her daughter were swimming.

The council came out 5 days later and took their photo and microchip details etc, saw where we had fixed the problem - they had pushed a wire fence under the house down - and said everything looked great. The council adviced the owner to take her dog to the vet but she said it was fine. The ranger said that because of this, the fact that we had fixed everything and it was their first day in a new environment he believed nothing would come of it, but it would still need to go to a panel to be decided.

Today on the proposal it states that both dogs attacked this dog and it received puncture wounds - this is the first we have heard of this - and that obviously the dogs were offleash and not under effective control - as was her dog.

The notice says we can contest the notice in writing on or before 5pm 8th dec. Today is the 8 dec, and we don't get home before 5pm - it only arrived today. If we don't contest then the dogs will be declared a nuisance 7 days after the date of the notice which is the 1 dec, so they are now declared a nuisance.

The terms we have been given are:

- ensure dog is under effective control of a competent person by means of an adequate chain, cord or leash that is attached to the dog and that is being held by the person whenever it is in a public place - this happens anyway, as they have terrible recall.

- take resonable precautions to prevent your dog from escaping the confines of your property - this has already been done and the ranger has sighted it.

- prevent your dog from endangering the health and safety of any person or animal, a example of this would be enrolling your dog in behavioural and obedience classes - this one I don't understand???

The order will remain in place for 6 months. A nuisance dog order is final and is not subject to any appeal or review.

Is there now nothing we can do?? Is this all that happens???

Thankyou in advance

I think it's a reasonable request by the council. Your dogs getting out perpetuated all the events that followed. It's irrelevant were the pug was (lawful or not) in regards to what has been set out by nuisance dog order. The only thing I'd be looking for is vet evidence in regards to puncture wounds on the pug in case something happens again and your dogs are declared DD's with a history.

[abed]

I would be interested to know what evidence they had to determine the OP's dogs were involved???.

The OP has admitted that her dogs were involved.

I had the impression that the OP was told of the incident. They can't admit to a series of events unless they saw it happen is what I am saying. Dogs escaping from the yard and creating a nuisence involving another animal (Pug) are two different things.

[abed]

No. The OP is saying this is what s/he has been "told" her dog did. Unless I've missed something (:confused), it is hearsay, especially since there seems to be no evidence and also especially since the initial enquiry resulted in the OP being informed there was no damage/injury sustained.

I'll be happy to stand corrected if it is myself who is mis-reading the information.

Well all we can go off is what's in the OP. OP said her dogs got out after one day at a new house. I'm sure the owners of the attacked dog didnt just do a random search of someone in the white pages and successfully find someone whose dogs got out. Dont mean to be a smart ass but I have a pug who weighs 4.5 kilos. If she'd been sitting somewhere and was attacked by 2 roaming dogs (granted she wouldnt be sitting unsupervised in a dog prohibited area but that's beside the point) she'd probably be dead. If your dogs are at large and attack another dog, you're in breach. As said by a previous poster, looks like the OP got off with a warning. Why fight that when they know their dogs were loose?

People often report that they think the dog involved in an incident was the dog belonging to a particular address and the council put pressure on the owner of that dog on a suspicion without actual evidence. I was involved in an incident like that once where a Rottweiller was believed to have bitten someone and the owner of a Rottweiller in the near vacinity was facing a Dangerous Dog order on the assumption that their dog must have climbed a side fence when the owners were at work on that day. What eventually cleared the suspected dog was the attacking Rotty was reported to have had a docked tail, their's had a tail and the case was dropped. Being told your dog is suspected of doing something needs to be thoroughly investigated before an owner should accept that their dog was involved.

[abed]

We have just recieved a proposed nuisance dog order for 2 of our dogs. They escaped from our new house the day after we moved in. We were told the dogs had attacked a pug who was sitting on a beach which is clearly marked as no dogs allowed, while its owner and her daughter were swimming.

The council came out 5 days later and took their photo and microchip details etc, saw where we had fixed the problem - they had pushed a wire fence under the house down - and said everything looked great. The council adviced the owner to take her dog to the vet but she said it was fine. The ranger said that because of this, the fact that we had fixed everything and it was their first day in a new environment he believed nothing would come of it, but it would still need to go to a panel to be decided.

Today on the proposal it states that both dogs attacked this dog and it received puncture wounds - this is the first we have heard of this - and that obviously the dogs were offleash and not under effective control - as was her dog.

The notice says we can contest the notice in writing on or before 5pm 8th dec. Today is the 8 dec, and we don't get home before 5pm - it only arrived today. If we don't contest then the dogs will be declared a nuisance 7 days after the date of the notice which is the 1 dec, so they are now declared a nuisance.

The terms we have been given are:

- ensure dog is under effective control of a competent person by means of an adequate chain, cord or leash that is attached to the dog and that is being held by the person whenever it is in a public place - this happens anyway, as they have terrible recall.

- take resonable precautions to prevent your dog from escaping the confines of your property - this has already been done and the ranger has sighted it.

- prevent your dog from endangering the health and safety of any person or animal, a example of this would be enrolling your dog in behavioural and obedience classes - this one I don't understand???

The order will remain in place for 6 months. A nuisance dog order is final and is not subject to any appeal or review.

Is there now nothing we can do?? Is this all that happens???

Thankyou in advance

I think it's a reasonable request by the council. Your dogs getting out perpetuated all the events that followed. It's irrelevant were the pug was (lawful or not) in regards to what has been set out by nuisance dog order. The only thing I'd be looking for is vet evidence in regards to puncture wounds on the pug in case something happens again and your dogs are declared DD's with a history.

The OP is looking at it in the sense that the report was generated because of the Pug owner's regulation breach. Had the Pug owner not had their dog on the beach and complied with the rules themselves to create an incident, the nuisence order would have not eventuated. All things being fair, the Pug owner should also be prosecuted for their breach aswell.

[ruthless]

I think the owner of the Pug may have posted about this incident when it happened. Does anyone else remember? All I remember is small dog attacked on a Sydney beach by two big dogs.

Details of the injuries (if any) might be in that thread...

[MooBoo]

Well we received the fines in the mail today. OH tried to ring the ranger involved but he was at a course, waiting for someone else to ring him back.

I just want to clarify some things that are being said. I'm not trying to get "out" of the order, I was simply asking for advice as I have never been in this situation before. The fact that we received the letter on the final day to contest it - we will be speaking to the ranger about this hopefully tomorrow. 2 of the 3 terms we have already met, I still don't know what the third term means, do I have to take the dogs to classes and show proof, has anyone had to do this before?

Everything I wrote in the OP was what I was told, firstly by a neighbour, who was in her front yard when the pug owner stopped and asked her if she knew the dogs, which she didn't at that stage as she hadn't realised we had moved in and by the ranger when he came to speak to us.

Our dogs were under our house when we got home. We threw them inside the house and went and spoke to the neighbour who said that they had been out all morning, rushing out from under the house and barking at anyone trying to walk past then going back under the house before they took themselves off to the beach. I am not disputing the fact that it was them. The neighbour saw them.

I completely understand that the council needed to be involved, I would have done the exact same thing. I am just a bit upset that now we are being told that the dog was injured. The neighbour rang several of the closest vets to ask if a dog had been brought in, but couldn't find one. That afternoon we rang more vets and still could not find any. We were very worried for the little dog. You picture in your head what would happen if a 45kg and a 60kg dog attacked a 4kg dog. The outcome wouldn't have been pretty.

Thank you for the advice that has been given.

[abed]

Well we received the fines in the mail today. OH tried to ring the ranger involved but he was at a course, waiting for someone else to ring him back.

I just want to clarify some things that are being said. I'm not trying to get "out" of the order, I was simply asking for advice as I have never been in this situation before. The fact that we received the letter on the final day to contest it - we will be speaking to the ranger about this hopefully tomorrow. 2 of the 3 terms we have already met, I still don't know what the third term means, do I have to take the dogs to classes and show proof, has anyone had to do this before?

Everything I wrote in the OP was what I was told, firstly by a neighbour, who was in her front yard when the pug owner stopped and asked her if she knew the dogs, which she didn't at that stage as she hadn't realised we had moved in and by the ranger when he came to speak to us.

Our dogs were under our house when we got home. We threw them inside the house and went and spoke to the neighbour who said that they had been out all morning, rushing out from under the house and barking at anyone trying to walk past then going back under the house before they took themselves off to the beach. I am not disputing the fact that it was them. The neighbour saw them.

I completely understand that the council needed to be involved, I would have done the exact same thing. I am just a bit upset that now we are being told that the dog was injured. The neighbour rang several of the closest vets to ask if a dog had been brought in, but couldn't find one. That afternoon we rang more vets and still could not find any. We were very worried for the little dog. You picture in your head what would happen if a 45kg and a 60kg dog attacked a 4kg dog. The outcome wouldn't have been pretty.

Thank you for the advice that has been given.

The Pug owner must have followed the dogs to see where they went I assume???. Just trying to work out how the ranger ended up at your place when the neighbour didn't know them to tell the Pug owner where they lived???.

[raz]

I just want to clarify some things that are being said. I'm not trying to get "out" of the order, I was simply asking for advice as I have never been in this situation before.

Fair enough. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. The thought of my tiny pug being attacked by two dogs makes me physically ill so I let emotion get the better of me, but obviously you're distressed about the incident as well. If you havent done so already, ring the ranger for a chat.