Reminder To Restrain Dogs In Cars

[Little Gifts]

I too am previously guilty of letting a puppy sleep on my lap while driving and a large dog hang so far out of an open window because she liked it that she once fell out at the traffic lights (we were at a stop and she wasn't hurt). I used to have a car cat who lay on the back window ledge and a pet goat who rode around in the back of my hatchback. I implore any of you still doing this to think how devestated you would be if some tool missed a stop sign and hit you and killed your beloved pet. It isn't about how far you are driving or how good a driver you are, it is about taking preventative action to keep you and your loved ones (furry and skin) safe. It is no different to keeping your dog leashed when walking across a busy road - you would do that even if your dog didn't like it wouldn't you? You give heartworm treatment to your dog so it doesn't die a horrible death don't you? These are both preventative measures to cover those what if scenarios. We can't control everything but we can make efforts to minimise potential harms that we are aware of.

Dju - this certainly wasn't directed at you (just saw your post above). I was just going back through the posts and noticed a few people who weren't into dog restraints yet and I hope in time that all of them will be - for theirs and their pets safety. I was previously the same as well and didn't see the need. Now I have seen the consequences first hand of dogs sitting on laps, in foot wells or just on seats loose. It's heartbreaking.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Puppy_Sniffer

[Sheridan]

Yeah, but I don't think the poster cares...they want to wait to buy a harness in the possibly false belief that nothing bad will happen because they are only going to puppy preschool in a residential speed zone. Of course that's protection enough, isn't it? Poor little puppy.

Do you want to harpoon me because I carried one of my chickens in a box on my lap to the vets when she had an injured head instead of strapping her into the back seat with her standard grade chicken car harness?

For doG's sake, it isn't even any of your business whether I buy a harness now, later, or not at all. How about I look after my poor dog and you look after your poor dog? Does that sound okay to you? I said I'm getting a harness, but Hugo will have to brave those four traumatic car trips until then, but for now, just back off me please.

And the lesson learned here is: don't post when you're against the commonsense of the majority.

[wuffles]

Even with those, they have to be harnessed and clipped to the booster car or car seat (the comes with their own clippy thing where you can clip the harness to it). Just cause it's the LAW.

From 1 July 2008 in NSW... dogs have to be restrained riding in cars.

$285 fine and you will lost points off your drivers license (most probably 3).

Pretty sure it's not the law, see post #31.

Once I had my dog harnessed in the back seat when I thought "wow, he's being quiet". I turned around to see why... he had gotten himself tangled in both the harness and the seatbelt and was chewing the seatbelt to try free himself. That definitely distracted me from driving. By the time I found somewhere to pull over he'd eaten through half the seatbelt and was actually quite distressed.

I think it is difficult sometimes for big dogs because the attachment needs to be so long that it gives them complete movement anywhere on the backseat. My dog hits his head on the ceiling when he sits in the back seat

[W Sibs]

Even with those, they have to be harnessed and clipped to the booster car or car seat (the comes with their own clippy thing where you can clip the harness to it). Just cause it's the LAW.

From 1 July 2008 in NSW... dogs have to be restrained riding in cars.

$285 fine and you will lost points off your drivers license (most probably 3).

Pretty sure it's not the law, see post #31.

Once I had my dog harnessed in the back seat when I thought "wow, he's being quiet". I turned around to see why... he had gotten himself tangled in both the harness and the seatbelt and was chewing the seatbelt to try free himself. That definitely distracted me from driving. By the time I found somewhere to pull over he'd eaten through half the seatbelt and was actually quite distressed.

I think it is difficult sometimes for big dogs because the attachment needs to be so long that it gives them complete movement anywhere on the backseat. My dog hits his head on the ceiling when he sits in the back seat

Oops... I mean it's the law to keep the dogs restrained

[cointreau]

After this thread I emailed the RTA in NSW to clarify the legality of travelling with unrestrained pets in the car, their reply to me is below and my question to them is under that. It appears to be up to the discretion of the police if you are distracted or not.

Thank you for your email.

The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act Rule 7, states that a person must not carry or convey a dog (other than a dog being used to work livestock), on the open back of a moving vehicle on a public street unless the dog is restrained or enclosed in such a way as to prevent the dog falling from the vehicle.

Dogs should not ride unrestrained in either the front or back seats of any vehicle as the police may fine you if they deem that you do not have proper control of the vehicle due to the animal interfering with your control. Specially designed animal boxes and harnesses are available and should be used. A pet harness can be attached to the vehicle's seat belt allowing the dog to sit or lie on the seat. These harness and boxes can be purchased in a variety or sizes from the RSPCA or from pet supply stores.

It is stated in legislation that a driver must not drive with a person or animal in the driver's lap. This is Road Rule 297 (1A) Drive motor vehicle with person or animal in lap.

Dogs riding on the back of an open vehicle must be restrained or enclosed in such a way that they cannot fall off. If tethered, this should be to a short chain attached by a swivel to a central anchor point on the floor behind the cabin. The other end of the chain should be attached to the dog's collar by another swivel to prevent tangling.

A driver must not drive with a person or animal in the driver's lap. The rider of a motorbike must not ride with an animal on the fuel tank. This does not apply to a person who travels less than 500 metres for the purposes of farming.

To view the complete road rule please click on the below link to find Road Rule 297 which relates to your enquiry:

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/...179+2008+fn+0+N

Date: 08/12/2010

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Could you clarify if it is illegal to travel with unrestrained pets in the car, I believe it is but others say it isn't. If it is illegal what are the penalties please? Thanks for your help.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Yeah, but I don't think the poster cares...they want to wait to buy a harness in the possibly false belief that nothing bad will happen because they are only going to puppy preschool in a residential speed zone. Of course that's protection enough, isn't it? Poor little puppy.

Do you want to harpoon me because I carried one of my chickens in a box on my lap to the vets when she had an injured head instead of strapping her into the back seat with her standard grade chicken car harness?

For doG's sake, it isn't even any of your business whether I buy a harness now, later, or not at all. How about I look after my poor dog and you look after your poor dog? Does that sound okay to you? I said I'm getting a harness, but Hugo will have to brave those four traumatic car trips until then, but for now, just back off me please.

Actually, you made it public by posting here that you can't be arsed in restraining your pup when it travels in the car. So it IS my business because you made it so. If we don't speak up for those without a voice, then people like yourself will continue to do whatever you please even when it's been pointed out why that's not the right thing to do.

The thread is about restraining dogs in cars - I fail to see the relevance of your chicken reference but as you have raised it, then you should have put the chicken in a crate as well. It's common sense...really.

BTW - I have three dogs. My smallest is always crated in the car. The other two are harnessed in and restrained using the proper retention straps which clip into the seatbelt keeper and attach to the harness with a snap fitting. Not only is it the law, but it's the right thing to do. I can also crate my middle-sized dog as I have an airline crate to fit her. This is suitable if I'm only taking her and not the others as I only have a smallish car.

I've been witness to more than one motor vehicle accident involving a dog in a car. Believe me when I tell you that it's a tragedy which the people could have so easily avoided by doing the right thing.

I've also lost a family member and their dog in a low-speed crash which was caused BECAUSE THE DOG WAS LOOSE IN THE CAR AND TRIED TO GET INTO THE FRONT SEAT - THE PASSENGER UNDID HER SEATBELT TO SHOO THE DOG BACK, WHEN THIS FAILED THE DRIVER TURNED AROUND TO SHOVE THE DOG BACK, WHICH CAUSED HIM TO LOSE CONTROL OF THE CAR, THE CAR THEN ROLLED NUMEROUS TIMES. THE PASSENGER AND DOG WERE KILLED WHEN THEY WERE BOTH THROWN OUT OF THE CAR. And yes, I'm shouting at you because you need to understand how effing serious this issue really is.

It was never going to happen to them either. They were just nipping into town for the weekend papers and fresh bread. The dog loved to travel in the car and they had never had a problem with the dog moving off the back seat until this one Saturday morning.

[fainty_girl]

Uhm, because puppy preschool is ten minutes drive on a 50 km-an-hour suburban road away from our house?

Do you wear a seat belt yourself then, even though puppy preschool is nearby? Unfortunately car accidents do happen, regardless of how far away from home you are.

[Danois]

Seriously people - why are some going into attack mood against a poster who has said they do not use a restraint, instead have the dog on the lap of the passenger.

It is not illegal to have an unrestrained dog if it is not going to interfere with the driver therefore it comes down to a personal decision and each person can make their own decision after weighing up the risks.

If someone has considered those risks and have the dog unrestrained then so be it and its none of anyone else's business so a few people should just back off.

FWIW my dog is not restrained in the back of my car - he is in the back of a 4WD and harnesses are a massive hassle at his size.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Danois

[koalathebear]

And yes, I'm shouting at you because you need to understand how effing serious this issue really is.

At the end of the day it's personal choice. It's against the law to drink and drive but people still do. It's against the law to text/use a phone and drive but people still do.

Making something the law is a motivation for people to do the right thing but at the end of the day, it's up to each individual to make their own decisions about what to do. I guess the tragic thing here is that people are making up their minds for dogs who can't decide for themselves how best to protect themselves in an accident.

While it's like a lot of matters where you say, my dog my decision, the sad thing here is that the consequences of the decision don't just affect the owner and the poor dog in person. If dog becomes a dangerous projectile during an accident or is otherwise distracting because it's unrestrained and thereby leads to injury/death of third parties, then other people have to pay the price for the owner's decision. Then again, a lot of the injuries caused by driving offences are like that i.e. third parties affected by the driver's actions. Anyway, I don't think all the shouting in the world doesn't help.

For my own part, Elbie totally hated his harness but we persisted It's kind of like if you had a child (or even an unruly adult) who hated his seatbelt with a passion and refused to wear it - I doubt anyone would give in and say: "OK you don't like the seatbelt, you don't have to wear it." Same thing goes for a dog - if Elbie continued to be bonkers about his harness, we'd have to keep working at him until he accepted it. Until then, he wouldn't get to go in the car when it was moving. Like I said before, for us it's not so much a matter of legality as it is a matter of safety and responsibility not only to ourselves but to innocent third parties who could be affected by our actions. I'm always so angry when I hear about drink drivers causing death/injury to innocent third parties and the culpability isn't that much different with the unrestrained dog scenario except that you don't have the excuse of intoxication.

[Danois]

And yes, I'm shouting at you because you need to understand how effing serious this issue really is.

At the end of the day it's personal choice. It's against the law to drink and drive but people still do. It's against the law to text/use a phone and drive but people still do.

(sniped)

Yes but in this instance, it is not necessarily against the law to have a dog unrestrained in the car and that's the distinction a lot of people seem to be missing.

[wuffles]

(sniped)

Yes but in this instance, it is not necessarily against the law to have a dog unrestrained in the car and that's the distinction a lot of people seem to be missing.

x 2

[koalathebear]

Edited because I was out of sorts when I first posted and it didn't come out the way I intended.

Yes but in this instance, it is not necessarily against the law to have a dog unrestrained in the car and that's the distinction a lot of people seem to be missing.

I know ... I was saying that it's not against the law but:

Making something the law is a motivation for people to do the right thing but at the end of the day, it's up to each individual to make their own decisions about what to do.

i.e. even if it was illegal to drive without restraining your dogs, people would still do it. I was just repeating that for some people (like me) it's got nothing to do with the law, it's just about trying to protect my dogs to the extent that I can. As dog lovers, there are LOTS of things we do to protect and safeguard our dogs that go well above and beyond what is mandated by law and have nothing to do with the law so to me, in many instances - it seems almost irrelevant to say that one doesn't do or does something because it is or is not the 'law'. It should all be about what's in the best interests of the dog.

I realise that sometimes there are real logistical impediments sometimes. People kept telling me over and over to crate my dog in the car and I kept saying over and over that I couldn't get a crate in the back seat of our car like that - definitely couldn't fit two and it's frustrating to be told to do something when there are good practicable reasons why you can't. For us, we were lucky that we could get the two dogs used to their harnesses - it was a lot of work because our first dog kept releasing himself with his paw .

As with most things on this forum, you're never going to get consensus - vaccinations, worming, desexing etc etc etc the list goes on ... It's clear that people fall into two categories - people who restrain their dogs, people who (for various reasons) do not. Both have valid reasons for doing what they do or don't and it's not really possible to 'convince' someone to do something if they're already/not already doing it... I wouldn't have my dogs unrestrained in the back of a car simply because if we brake abruptly or are involved in an accident, they'll go flying and hit the window/windscreen/grill and either break their necks or otherwise be severely injured and given that I've minimised my risks (air bag, seatbelt) I'd never forgive myself if I hadn't given my puppies the maximum chance of survival/protection, too ... I'm not saying other people should agree with me or that my way is the right way, I'm just trying to explain (and defend) my point of view because my dogs have to live (or die as the case may be) with the consequences of my decisions.

Sometimes I'm all too conscious of the fact that the life and welfare of my dogs is entirely in my hands. They have no decision-making rights or powers and once I took them into my life, it was my obligation to make sure I did the best I could by them. I decide to put them into a dangerous thing like a car, so I should minimise their risks where I can. There are many things that they don't like and complain about - taking some medicines, getting vaccinated, won't want to be desexed blah blah blah but there are some instances where they can't have their way and I just have to get creative to make sure their interests are safeguarded.

Edited December 9, 2010 by koalathebear

[Dju]

Seriously people - why are some going into attack mood against a poster who has said they do not use a restraint, instead have the dog on the lap of the passenger.

It is not illegal to have an unrestrained dog if it is not going to interfere with the driver therefore it comes down to a personal decision and each person can make their own decision after weighing up the risks.

If someone has considered those risks and have the dog unrestrained then so be it and its none of anyone else's business so a few people should just back off.

FWIW my dog is not restrained in the back of my car - he is in the back of a 4WD and harnesses are a massive hassle at his size.

Thank you!

[Skitch]

Such a horrible thing to happen.. poor little dog .

Does anyone know if it's illegal to travel with unrestrained dogs in SA..? We never restrain either of ours but never have the windows down either. We did try our italian greyhound in one of those car harness thingies because he tends to bounce around and give the other dog the sh*ts.. but he damn near broke his leg by wriggling and twisting around so much so we gave up on that idea LOL.

[Skitch]

Such a horrible thing to happen.. poor little dog .

Does anyone know if it's illegal to travel with unrestrained dogs in SA..? We never restrain either of ours but never have the windows down either. We did try our italian greyhound in one of those car harness thingies because he tends to bounce around and give the other dog the sh*ts.. but he damn near broke his leg by wriggling and twisting around so much so we gave up on that idea LOL.

It's only illegal if they are unrestrained in the back of a ute. Even if you don't have the windows down you run the risk of your dog breaking something or dying through the force of being thrown around the car. It was a very minor incident that initially prompted me to get a harness for Justice. I was driving down a 60km/hr road doing around 40km/hr (as I was approaching a set of lights that were red) when the car in front of me hit their brakes too hard (they weren't at risk of hitting another car so I think maybe their foot just slipped or something). I had to brake a bit harder than I already was but it wasn't even remotely like I slammed the brakes on or anything, as I was a fair distance from the car. Anyway, that little bit of extra force was enough to throw Justice forward from the back seat and wedge his head between the driver's seat and the front door. I drove straight to a pet store and bought a harness as I could only imagine what would have happened if I'd had to come to a complete stop.

It was only a few months later that I was driving along the same road (not a main road by the way but it still gets a bit of traffic) doing just under 60km/h in the middle of the day when a Learner driver pulled out of a side street on my right and made a right hand turn in front of me, just as I got to the street. I slammed my brakes on and swerved to the curb and she slammed her brakes on and we avoided a collision with me at full speed by a few centimetres. I don't get rattled easily and I was shaking like a leaf and felt sick. I pulled over as soon as I safely could so that I could check on Justice and calm down. He was a bit rattled (although that might have been because I was so rattled) but other than that was perfectly fine - no bruising or strains and he didn't hit his head on anything, solely because he was strapped in with his harness. The force that I stopped with would have been more than enough to throw him in to the front of the car or even the windscreen, unless he was stopped by the back of the front seats in which case he no doubt would have broken something. It would have been even worse if the two cars hadn't managed to avoid a collision.

It's only of late that I had gotten very slack with the harness and I think it was probably just me becoming complacent as there hadn't been any incidents since the one described above. But as this thread shows, it only takes one mistake or moment of distraction for everything to go wrong. I've been lucky in that Justice is really easy going and never gave me any grief over the harness but it really is worth training your dog to accept the harness in the car.

What scary stories.. I can definitely see the advantages of restraining your dogs while driving. I'm actually a bit embarrassed to say it's not something I've considered properly.. makes me feel silly and irresponsible when hearing stories like the original post and yours! It only has to happen once doesn't it..

[karly101]

Another example.... I was driving Turbo (german shepherd) to the local dog park.. I was 5 minutes away from home (on the same street!!) ...I was travelling 60 but slowing down towards a bend.... suddenly a guy coming from opposite direction swung in front of me on the wrong side of the road and most likely doing more than 60... we both slammed on the brakes, he spun round and ended up about 2 cm away from my car!

Turbo was harnessed in a static seat belt (I drive an old car) he was thrown slightly forward but harness did its job and stopped him hitting my back seat. IF he wasn't harnessed he would have hit me, most likely been injured, probably would have injured me and distracted me so much that I probably would have completely lost control of the car and impact would have occurred. Since that incident one of my friends sewed me a custom harness made out of seatbelt material with less slack in it (with how it buckles in) so he won't be thrown forward at all.

They are called ACCIDENTS for a reason...you hope and think it won't happen to you, but there are a lot of idiots out there. My other more serious accident (fortunately without dog) involved an unlicensed, unregistered driver who was driving at night without headlights! Sometimes you are in wrong place at the wrong time.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Seriously people - why are some going into attack mood against a poster who has said they do not use a restraint, instead have the dog on the lap of the passenger.

It is not illegal to have an unrestrained dog if it is not going to interfere with the driver therefore it comes down to a personal decision and each person can make their own decision after weighing up the risks.

If someone has considered those risks and have the dog unrestrained then so be it and its none of anyone else's business so a few people should just back off.

FWIW my dog is not restrained in the back of my car - he is in the back of a 4WD and harnesses are a massive hassle at his size.

Thank you!

Dju - I pity your dog. I only hope for the dog's sake that nothing ever happens while he's in your vehicle unrestrained. Go ahead and do whatever you feel is important to you and who cares about your dog? I certainly shouldn't. I feel sick at the risks you're taking with his life. I really do.

I don't care if you take risks with your own life, that's your choice. But I'm sure you wear a seatbelt yourself because you would know how stupid it is not to, right? :D

[raz]

Take a chill pill for goodness sake, LM. Dju said she was getting a harness. How about you lay off - your brow beating isnt encouraging anyone!

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Take a chill pill for goodness sake, LM. Dju said she was getting a harness. How about you lay off - your brow beating isnt encouraging anyone!

Sorry, Raz but this is one issue very close to me and I get rather upset when I know that someone is deliberately putting themselves and other road users in harm's way. And this involves an innocent pup to boot.

[raz]

She bought a harness. Get off her back!