Help Needed

[Cichlabxr]

Hi all,

We have a rescue kelpie cross. She is on the most part extremely loving and reasonably well behaved considering she has had little to no training. She is approximately 2 1/2 - 3yo. We have had her for 12 months. Originally as foster parents..lol

The main problem is her fear of collars and leads. She wears her collar ( martingale) constantly but when you try and attach a lead or even hold the collar she panics. Originally I had a plain choker collar but she used to strain so much she would nearly pass out unless you let go of the lead.

She is extremely wary of strangers and children, even my 2yo grand daughter who feeds her biscuits and adores her. If I put the lead on her, which I had to do the other day for a visit to the vet she immediately drops to the floor and becomes very submissive but will also try and run away intermittently. After much re-assurance she walks, crawls but only for a few yards where the whole process starts again.

The problem is after I let her off the lead. Which I do when she is as relaxed as I can get her, she runs away and will not come near me. The mere sight of the lead and she bolts again usually hiding under the house. This can last for several days.

She will play wrestle with me but try using a toy she takes it and ...runs under the house, same result with a ball. We have the devil of a job bathing her and again, once its done she avoids us like the plague. One day she will be taking biscuits (dog biscuits) out of my grand daughters hand...the next time won't come near her.

We have her in the house of an evening and she will lay on her bed as told. If I chnage rooms she follows me and will lay on the floor near me.

If I am with her she will not go outside the yard even with the gate open but allow her access to the front yard on her own and occasionally she will squeeze through the fence. Trouble is we live on a bust road and she had a near miss the other day. I wouldn't have known. When my neighbour told me she was actually sitting at my feet. I didn't even know she had been out..took her about 2 minutes.

She has obviously been mis-treated but I am at my wits end, no lead no walks, more pent up energy. Every time I try something new think it has worked until the next time..won't come to me. I cannot progress with any more obediance, socialising with other dogs even humans.

Does anyone know of a trainer who specialise in helping dogs to re-adjust after mis -treatment. What am I doing wrong because love and attention just isn't working? Any advice, suggestions would be greatfully received.

Thank you.

ps would another dog...without any problems ..who could is obediance trained ..or a puppy with no mental scars be of help.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Cichlabxr

[poodlefan]

She wears her collar ( martingale) constantly

This represents a significant choke hazard. I'd remove it.

I would recommend a professional trainer help you with this and I see you've asked for recommendations. Whereabouts in NSW is Agnes Banks? Is that Sydney.

I wonder if trying her on a no pull or ordinary walking harness might give you a new start. How is she with being touched generally?

[mita]

It can be amazing what the right training strategies & time, can do for an underconfident dog. That's a good idea about looking for someone experienced with this type of situation. You may find some of the experienced rescuers have worked with dogs like this, in foster-care. So maybe....asking on the Rescue Forum, too.

Long time back, we were given a list of tips to help a shy, under-confident small dog that was fostered, then adopted. Some of these may be applicable for your girl....or variations. Selected ones helped the small dog:

* Encourge her to do chasey games, when a treat or toy is tied at the end of a string.

And she's encouraged to chase it. Apparently that helps the

submissive dog to 'feel' & act more dominantly.

* Try to protect the dog's personal space. Do not let strangers

overwhelm him, etc. You may not be aware of a passersby

actually petting the dog. It is amazing what really goes on. Do

not allow people (even family members) to pet the dog on the top

of the head or behind his ears. Instead, pat and scratch the dog

on his chest and neck. This is much less threatening to a dog.

* Teach the dog how to play with you. Entice the dog for a game

of chase, with the dog chasing you. If he won't chase you while

you're running, try crawling, yes really. Crawl on the floor on all

fours away from him, then lie down and roll. Cover your face and

make high-pitched whimpering noises. This should entice the

dog to come over to you. This is success, praise the dog and

then walk away and try it again later.

* If the dog is scared of people, instruct people to sit down with

their backs facing the dog. Then, hold out a their hand (behind

them) for the dog with a food treat in it. Gradually, the person

can turn so that they are sideways, and then facing the dog.

Avoid eye-contact until the dog is no longer scared of this

particular person.

* Do not stroke a scared dog and say "It's OK." This is perceived

as praise by the dog and will make it more likely that the dog will

repeat his fear again next time. Instead, give robust pats on the

sides and act happy, pretend there is nothing to be scared

about, and if at all possible, remove him from the frightful

situation.

* Yawning is a calming signal for dogs. When your dog is

nervous or unsure of a situation or person, you (and that person)

should sit down by your dog, turn your head and focus slightly

away from the dog, and yawn continually. I am not talking about

30 seconds of yawning, rather 3-30 minutes of consistent,

passive yawning. Try it, over time it should make your dog more

comfortable.

* It is important to avoid eye-contact, especially if the dog is used

to running away or submissive peeing. When you are able to be

close to the dog, kneel or sit down so you are on his level and

turn your head away from the dog and lick your lips. Continue

doing this until the dog either ceases being nervous, or brings

their face closer to yours in a gesture of friendship. If/when this

occurs, praise the dog's efforts with kind words and a gentle

chest rub, however still avoid eye-contact. Whenever you are

close to a scared or submissive dog, it is important to avoid

eye-contact so the dog will not feel threatened in any way.

* If she's food oriented give visitors/family members some little treats to hold in their

hands & occasionally drop next to her as they walk by.

* Do not over-stimulate or push the dog too far to fast. Let the

dog regulate how close he can get to other people, places and

things. If you push a scared dog too far, you will create a

neurosis that will be more difficult to treat.

* If the dog is scared of human contact, even from you, pet the

dog unexpectedly as you walk by. Do it quickly and friendly, and

then keep walking. The dog will probably be scared and

surprised, for if he knew you were going to pet him, he would've

run away and not allowed it. By sneaking in friendly petting with

no consequences (you simply walk away) the dog will learn that

being touched is not a bad thing.

* Being scared is very stressful. Exercise is one of the most

beneficial ways to relieve stress, so make sure your dog gets

plenty of it. If your dog likes other dogs (if you don't know, find

out) I strongly recommend that you find a dog for him to play with

on a weekly basis (more often, even better). Canine

companionship is very important to dogs, and especially a dog

that does not trust many humans, another canine can relieve

more stress than anything else. Be sure to allow the dogs to

romp around and play unrestricted (except for a fence) until they

tire out. This may be one of the best therapies that you can give

a shy dog.

[Kaz]

Just a quick idea to try to get over the hurdle of leash and walks - have you tried a harness? Possiby she has some bad associations with collar and leash that you will have to work through at a slower pace.

This is not adressing the core issues but I am sure you will soon get some advice from some more knowledgeable Dolers

[moosmum]

Mitas advise sounds good.

This is an idea thats worked for me.

To get such a nervous dog to acept the lead you can try attaching a short length of baleing twine ( enough to dangle and grab hold of,visible to her and felt by her) to the collar by doubling it.Poke one end through the collar ring and bring the rest of the twine through the loop thats come though.

Do not tie it,you want it to come off fast,with minimal fiddling.

Leave the ends of the baling twine untied,so that IF the twine is tangled on any thing and she panics or struggles,it will fray and not get stuck.

Do this only under supervision for short periods till she is used to the dangling twine,and will come readily and confidently to you to have it removed.

Make sure there is no where inaccessible she can hide from you too.ie: under the house,and try to avoid any other forseeable problems- you want to avoid panic,and you must be able to remove the twine if its needed.

Once she is at that stage,I would grab the twine and give gentle pull and release tugs while encouraging her to come forward.Every step forward gets a reward,pat/treat and keep the lessons very short.

1st time release her from the lead at the 1st sign of forward movement.Same thing for the next couple of lessons and only increase the time on lead very gradualy.Stop before she gets too nervous and always remove the twine when finished.

For her to be comfortable on lead and at your mercy she has to have confidence you will look after her,and her other problems will have to be addressed at the same time for that to be effective.

I hope you can find a good person to help.

Edited December 6, 2010 by moosmum

[RuralPug]

It sounds like she has had a trust betrayed at some stage (or thinks she has which has the same effect) and yes I think it worth getting the services of a good positive trainer to give you advice and show you ways to help her through it.

I wouldn't be getting another dog, no matter how confident, until she has a little more confidence herself. If she is fairly comfortable inside with you of an evening, try getting a light leash on her then and letting her wander the house with it on.

You could try to desensitise her to the leash with a light slip leash or light leash clipped to a flat collar left on her when she is indoors with you in the evening. Don't tense up or get nervous putting it on, and don't let her loose outside with it on, just in the house and act as though it's no big deal and don't take any notice of it except for the putting on and taking off before she goes outside. If she likes being inside she will come to accept the leash in a few days.

I usually find harnesses very very difficult to put on dogs that are wary of collars/leashes although they can be wonderful for dogs who don't walk well on lead but don't have problems with the lead itself.

[Greytmate]

Are you sure the problem is only the lead and collar? That might only be a part of the dog's problems. A dog can be trained to accept a lead and collar, but that won't make the dog want to go for a walk with you.

You really need to see somebody who is expert in dog behaviour, before you decide that this dog needs to be put on a lead and socialised around other dogs or strange people.

You have a nervous dog, you can't change that. You may be able to improve things a lot though, so it is worth paying to have an expert consultation.

Does the rescue group have access to a behaviourist you can visit?

If not, I hope somebody can recommend someone in your area. Good luck.

[Lab_Rat]

I hope you can get some behavioural help for you poor dog Cichlabxr...........I am currently working through some anxiety/fear issues with one of our girls.

I have a program to follow after having a session with a behaviourist in Perth, and I must say it was eye opening to say the least to work with someone that deals with this sort of thing all the time!!

Having a dog with no confidence manifests into quite a number of behavioural problems! My girl has separation anxiety as well as being very fearful of strange visitors. Glad to say though they seem to be very fixable!

Good luck with your girl - and do let us know how you go!!

[Cichlabxr]

Thanks for all your advice. I have received a couple of personal messages with recommendations as well.

I will keep you all posted as to how she progresses.

Mitas thanks for that list of tips gives me something to work with until I get a professional in to see her.

Thanks again

[Greytmate]

It would be helpful if people posted their recommendations on the forum, and why. That way more than one person can benefit from the information.

When you say she is a rescue, do you mean that an organisation adopted her to you? Or did you rescue her yourself? How do you know her behaviour is because of mistreatment rather than being genetic?

The reason I ask is that behaviour problems of that extent should have been picked up a lot earlier, and an ethical rescue organisation would not have left a foster carer with a dog showing that level of anxiety.

Good luck with this girl. You sound like a very caring owner, so I hope you end up with a good dog.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Greytmate