Judge's Behaviour On Video?

[WreckitWhippet]

Perhaps it's a more positve experience if you attend shows with reasonably well trained and social puppy/adult

[poodlefan]

Pewithers:

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

They guard in a place they've never been? Under the physical control of their owners? Having been trained and socialised to tolerate handling by a judge?

Honestly if you thought your dog's temperament wasn't suitable for the show ring, why on earth did you exhibit it?

Lilli has said here before that some of her CAS are simply unsuitable for exhibition. That's called knowing your dogs.

Don't blame the judges for eliciting responses from your dog that you appear to have been expecting anyway. :rolleyes:

Edited December 6, 2010 by poodlefan

[Erny]

well lets hope you reported it then cause if you didn't you are condoning it

I don't quite agree with the above. You'd be turning your back on something that you believe should not be occurring and that is tantamount to apathy. But I disagree that it equates to supporting or agreeing with the [offensive] action.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Erny

[SkySoaringMagpie]

A judge can also be too tentative and fussy. Showing a sighthound you sometimes get judges who think that because you are instructed to handle them sensitively that you should make a production of the approach while eyeballing the dog strangely the whole time. The longer the approach goes on and the more tentative the judge is, the more likely the dog is going to think "wow, this is weird, wonder what the problem is?". I like the old gundog guys and hound people who can see immediately what the construction is and go straight in and go over the dog with no fuss & no drama.

[brightonrock]

I like the old gundog guys and hound people who can see immediately what the construction is and go straight in and go over the dog with no fuss & no drama.

me too

[Tralee]

Hey Staranais

Many people trust, and expect Judges to set an example for all those who are in effect, putting their faith in them to lead and teach.

This is especially true of people new to showing and just starting out.

Some Judges not only think that it's OK but return home and brag about their 'cruelty' to other breeders.

My visit to Dareton, not too distant far, is evidence that they do "spook" bigger dogs but in this case, especially puppies.

And not just one judge, but a pair of judges.

Fortunately, my dog has mellowed beautifully, which is no accident, since he suffered for many years after his early ideal with this pair of creeps.

Dogs NSW and all dog authorities, should suspended and permanently disqualify deceitful, dishonest and cruel judges.

It would be an easy matter to collate the statistics from shows with incidents in the show ring, during presentation particularly, and correlate them to the judges presiding.

Maybe, some leadership from the authorities will help eradicate bad sport-person-ship, that is still too common, and more often than not, makes what should be an enjoyable and entertaining day, horrendous.

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

pewithers I have been involved in dogs for 36 years and have been to literally hundreds of shows (including shows in the U.S., UK. and Europe) and have never seen a judge deliberately set out to be cruel to a dog in the ring. I've come across a couple of judges who were a little heavy handed (usually when checking the mouth), but the vast majority of judges handle exhibits in a careful and considerate manner. I have never seen any judge try to 'spook' a dog in the ring nor have I ever met a judge who bragged about their cruelty to other breeders.

My experiences of dog showing have been generally positive, but perhaps I see and interpret things in a different manner.

Hi Miranda

Of course, without a long and positive tradition of dog showing it simply would not exist.

And it continues today because of the consistent high standards of 99.9% of 'Show People'

Notwithstanding, the video is atrocious, but it is not a unique or singular incidence of 'mis-judging'

My positive experiences are a little less than 99.9%, and I refute the claims of some in this thread, that other than the incident in the video, dog judging is perfect and all judges are saints.

Not even the Saints claim to be perfect.

[Tralee]

Pewithers:

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

They guard in a place they've never been? Under the physical control of their owners? Having been trained and socialised to tolerate handling by a judge?

Honestly if you thought your dog's temperament wasn't suitable for the show ring, why on earth did you exhibit it?

Lilli has said here before that some of her CAS are simply unsuitable for exhibition. That's called knowing your dogs.

Don't blame the judges for eliciting responses from your dog that you appear to have been expecting anyway. :D

I reiterate my point. "Many people trust, and expect Judges to set an example for all those who are in effect, putting their faith in them to lead and teach.

This is especially true of people new to showing and just starting out."

Now, pushing a dog off its "stance' by whatever means, by threatening stare, or intimidating approach, and forcing the dog to retreat, in other words deliberately compromising the dog's trust in the judge, particularly a puppy who is vulnerable and still developing is unforgivable.

History is done. The facts were confirmed. The pair of creep judges I condemn.

I don't see how they are any less hienous than the women in the video.

[Sheridan]

Hi Miranda

Of course, without a long and positive tradition of dog showing it simply would not exist.

And it continues today because of the consistent high standards of 99.9% of 'Show People'

Notwithstanding, the video is atrocious, but it is not a unique or singular incidence of 'mis-judging'

My positive experiences are a little less than 99.9%, and I refute the claims of some in this thread, that other than the incident in the video, dog judging is perfect and all judges are saints.

Not even the Saints claim to be perfect.

I wonder if you've actually read the posts in this thread?

[Tralee]

I wonder if you've actually read the posts in this thread?

Yep. read them all, with every barb and feather.

My response was to your response to my earlier post, which was a response to someone else's post, and so on.

Actually, the glass is not half full, it's overflowing.

[Sheridan]

I wonder if you've actually read the posts in this thread?

Yep. read them all, with every barb and feather.

My response was to your response to my earlier post, which was a response to someone else's post, and so on.

Actually, the glass is not half full, it's overflowing.

Erm, okay?

[Tralee]

I wonder if you've actually read the posts in this thread?

Yep. read them all, with every barb and feather.

My response was to your response to my earlier post, which was a response to someone else's post, and so on.

Actually, the glass is not half full, it's overflowing.

Erm, okay?

Meaning, my posts are always fully informed, as far as is practicable.

[Sheridan]

I wonder if you've actually read the posts in this thread?

Yep. read them all, with every barb and feather.

My response was to your response to my earlier post, which was a response to someone else's post, and so on.

Actually, the glass is not half full, it's overflowing.

Erm, okay?

Meaning, my posts are always fully informed, as far as is practicable.

Well, perhaps you could point out those posts that say:

that other than the incident in the video, dog judging is perfect and all judges are saints.

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

[Tralee]

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

Never quoted anyone saying judges are saints.

Analysis and synthesis of the events and comments, together with a literal licence to post a point of view, are what forums are composed of.

To put it another way, forums create the space for writers to be creative, or expressive, if that's what fits your muse.

[Sheridan]

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

Never quoted anyone saying judges are saints.

Analysis and synthesis of the events and comments, together with a literal licence to post a point of view, are what forums are composed of.

To put it another way, forums create the space for writers to be creative, or expressive, if that's what fits your muse.

In other words, you made it up.

[Diva]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but whens Dogs were shown in the 60's in England there was very minimal handling by the judge. The dog was largely judged by the presence in the ring and movement and overall type. I understand in Russia dogs are handled by the exhibitor to display teeth and also testicles so the judge doesn't put a hand on them. This video has highlighted how much hands on is used now in the extreme.

I have attended shows in Russia, and the judges most certainly handled the dogs.

[Tralee]

In other words, you made it up.

Wish I could say that I don't understand, but Blind Freddy could see what you're doing.

If you can't contribute to the issue without going 'Ad Hominem' then I, for one, am certainly not going to take the same tack as you.

Those comments, have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion, "Judge's Behaviour On Video."

Edited December 7, 2010 by pewithers

[brightonrock]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but whens Dogs were shown in the 60's in England there was very minimal handling by the judge. The dog was largely judged by the presence in the ring and movement and overall type. I understand in Russia dogs are handled by the exhibitor to display teeth and also testicles so the judge doesn't put a hand on them. This video has highlighted how much hands on is used now in the extreme.

I have attended shows in Russia, and the judges most certainly handled the dogs.

Thanks, I was told they get the handler to mouth dogs and to "display" testicles, this example was on large breeds that were very feisty. Having said this I don't think the issue with the Spanish judge is a cultural issue, definitely a personal one.

If anyone knows can they keep an update on what disciplinary action is being taken against her ?

[Diva]

Thanks, I was told they get the handler to mouth dogs and to "display" testicles, this example was on large breeds that were very feisty. Having said this I don't think the issue with the Spanish judge is a cultural issue, definitely a personal one.

They may well with specific breeds. It wasn't so at the all breeds show or the specialties that I attended. But I can well imagine that there are a small number of the native breeds where judges find it safer to approach it differently and stay hands off. I would if I was the judge, LOL.

I don't know what disciplinary action is being taken in this case, but it will be interesting to track it.

[sas]

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

Never quoted anyone saying judges are saints.

Analysis and synthesis of the events and comments, together with a literal licence to post a point of view, are what forums are composed of.

To put it another way, forums create the space for writers to be creative, or expressive, if that's what fits your muse.

Do you have insecurities about your level of intelligence or is there another reason as to why you speak like that?

[poodlefan]

Pewithers:

Now, pushing a dog off its "stance' by whatever means, by threatening stare, or intimidating approach, and forcing the dog to retreat, in other words deliberately compromising the dog's trust in the judge, particularly a puppy who is vulnerable and still developing is unforgivable.

History is done. The facts were confirmed. The pair of creep judges I condemn.

I don't see how they are any less hienous than the women in the video.

I think you mean "heinous".

And I still don't see what guarding behaviour has to do with what you describe.

Edited December 8, 2010 by poodlefan