Judge's Behaviour On Video?

[silverdog]

...

My positive experiences are a little less than 99.9%, and I refute the claims of some in this thread, that other than the incident in the video, dog judging is perfect and all judges are saints.

...

Where? What "claims"? I must have missed those.

Please direct me to the posts that contain these "claims" that you are "refuting" .

After all, a claim must first be made before one is in a position to refute it.

[Sheridan]

In other words, you made it up.

Wish I could say that I don't understand, but Blind Freddy could see what you're doing.

If you can't contribute to the issue without going 'Ad Hominem' then I, for one, am certainly not going to take the same tack as you.

Those comments, have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion, "Judge's Behaviour On Video."

No, you made an accusation about what people said on this thread; I called you on it and as I figured, you couldn't back it up.

[fifi]

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

Never quoted anyone saying judges are saints.

Analysis and synthesis of the events and comments, together with a literal licence to post a point of view, are what forums are composed of.

To put it another way, forums create the space for writers to be creative, or expressive, if that's what fits your muse.

Do you have insecurities about your level of intelligence or is there another reason as to why you speak like that?

It's okay Sas, he's a teacher and we is all dummies or it could be the Nimbin air !!!

fifi

[Clyde]

In credit to the dogs temperment it actually went very well until it had to go back to her which is not suprising at all.

Poor thing, you could see it cowering as soon as it had to go back near the judging table.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I know nothing about showing, but I know about not frightening puppies

Frankly, I think the judge is nuts and not just with the extreme handling; that long hair swishing everywhere, getting into dogs' eyes, flapping against their faces, etc etc, I'm surprised she hasn't been bitten. Testament to the good behaviour of dogs on the table.

She seemed to have a case of verbal diarrhoea too.

Poor dog.

I think the puppy may have got a bite in on her hand if you watch her as the puppy goes away on its out and back. She grabs her hand and then wipes it.

Poor little puppy. She should never be allowed to judge again.

The hair in the puppy's face annoyed me too

NO thats what JUDGES should do WIPE their hands after touching each dog! But most people in the dog world do not appear to mind this practice!!of touching all dogs and not disinfecting between

[benshiva]

I know nothing about showing, but I know about not frightening puppies

Frankly, I think the judge is nuts and not just with the extreme handling; that long hair swishing everywhere, getting into dogs' eyes, flapping against their faces, etc etc, I'm surprised she hasn't been bitten. Testament to the good behaviour of dogs on the table.

She seemed to have a case of verbal diarrhoea too.

Poor dog.

I think the puppy may have got a bite in on her hand if you watch her as the puppy goes away on its out and back. She grabs her hand and then wipes it.

Poor little puppy. She should never be allowed to judge again.

The hair in the puppy's face annoyed me too

NO thats what JUDGES should do WIPE their hands after touching each dog! But most people in the dog world do not appear to mind this practice!!of touching all dogs and not disinfecting between

YES I understand that JUDGES should WIPE their hands after judging each dog!!!! Not arguing with you there. Didn't say they shouldn't!!!!!

However, to me it looks like the puppy may have bitten her. I hope it did

[Wazzat Xolo]

I know nothing about showing, but I know about not frightening puppies

Frankly, I think the judge is nuts and not just with the extreme handling; that long hair swishing everywhere, getting into dogs' eyes, flapping against their faces, etc etc, I'm surprised she hasn't been bitten. Testament to the good behaviour of dogs on the table.

She seemed to have a case of verbal diarrhoea too.

Poor dog.

I think the puppy may have got a bite in on her hand if you watch her as the puppy goes away on its out and back. She grabs her hand and then wipes it.

Poor little puppy. She should never be allowed to judge again.

The hair in the puppy's face annoyed me too

NO thats what JUDGES should do WIPE their hands after touching each dog! But most people in the dog world do not appear to mind this practice!!of touching all dogs and not disinfecting between

YES I understand that JUDGES should WIPE their hands after judging each dog!!!! Not arguing with you there. Didn't say they shouldn't!!!!!

However, to me it looks like the puppy may have bitten her. I hope it did

lol wasnt arguing just a PET HATE of mine!! and the fact nobody checks dogs vaccination cards at shows!

[yarracully]

[Not wanting to go into different training methods used by people but I personally am amazed that the judge should take it upon themselves to try and train the dog in the first place. If the owner chooses to train their dog in this fashion then that is their choice. But the ring of a show is no place to train the dog and the judge should not be the person training it. No matter what the method or purpose.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Skruffy n Flea]

all i can think to do after watching that is to dangle her face-first over some frikken edge!!!

i don't know judging or showing or exhibiting BUT:

Credit to the dog that it didn't bite her...

...

i'd have given mine a treat

...

I dont think I have ever seen such gluteal divide.

LMFAO

the first time i was watching the dog! of course, i went back for a 2nd look ;)

...

Strange that it wouldn't gait back to the judge

that spoke volumes and i wonder too whether the dog lost points because of that!

OMG. The way she twisted the pup's neck and physically forced her around is revolting. I can't believe the owner didn't defend her pup and I am not suprised the little thing wouldn't go back to her. I thought the pup's behaviour was amazing, what a lovely little dog. I hope that this hasn't affected its temperament.

Have no doubt, the owner is probably sick with what has happened to her dog. It took less than a minute for the Judge to do that and the Judge is someone people should be able to trust with their dogs

ETA I should clarify, A Judge is in a position of trust.

if the exhibitor was inexperienced, then this belief would have held her back also...

The spanish exhibitors all seem to be rallying in support of this judge, saying the video is edited to make it look worse and that it is a 'dirty trick campaign' against her.

of course they are! as someone else highlighted, this coming from a country whose pple congregate en masse to enjoy the spectacle of bullfighting ;)

...

... this poor judge who probably was just doing what everybody else was doing, and now will be pilloried "universally' for simply conforming to expectations.

...

This is why we have our own minds to discern for ourselves what is good.

...

contradiction much?

[tdierikx]

There is "handling" - and then there is "man-handling"...

The video shows an example of one of the above... what would you call it if it were YOUR dog on that table?

T.

[sas]

I recall the one where it was said it hadn't happened to them but I don't recall the others? In particular, I don't recall the saint claim.

Never quoted anyone saying judges are saints.

Analysis and synthesis of the events and comments, together with a literal licence to post a point of view, are what forums are composed of.

To put it another way, forums create the space for writers to be creative, or expressive, if that's what fits your muse.

Do you have insecurities about your level of intelligence or is there another reason as to why you speak like that?

It's okay Sas, he's a teacher and we is all dummies ;) or it could be the Nimbin air !!!

fifi

I have this hankering to reach for a plastic fork and stab myself in the eye ball.

[becks]

I came across this on facebook and thought I would share it

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?no...100001735671334

INFORMATION ON THE VIDEO OF ANA MESTO JUDGING

This video is part of a smear campaign against the judge Mrs. Ana Mesto, which has been very well organised by a person whose dog failed to win under her and who is now seeking vengeance in this way.

The video has been manipulated: some of the footage is repeated -such as the part where she takes the pup to the edge of the table several times- and the speed has been increased to make it look more violent.

Can anyone imagine that a judge can examine a dog on the table, give an oral critique to the handler, teach the dog to behave on the table, view its movement and finish judging it in only 1.33 minutes??? A judge like that could judge almost 300 dogs in five hours!!!

The video was put on Facebook and YouTube under a false identity. Mrs. Mesto’s lawyer has complained to YouTube and required that the video be removed, but the damage has already been done.

The real story is that the exhibitor, who had absolutely no experience –and neither did her dog-, came into the ring with the dog dragging its bottom along the floor. It did not walk at all. When she lifted it on to the table, the dog tried to jump off twice. When she again tried to stack it, it turned on her and tried to bite.

The exhibitor apologised to the judge and the latter told her that it was not good for the dog to leave the ring immediately after this negative experience, thinking that it could jump off the table whenever it wanted. She said that, if the exhibitor so wished, she could explain how to control it. The exhibitor said she would be very grateful and this is where the filming began (the events described above do not appear in the video).

The judge explained that she should take the dog by the neck decisively, but without hurting it, because the dog had the habit of turning its head and biting when it was held. She said that it should be taken to the edge of the table so that it would become afraid of jumping off, etc. The exhibitor was delighted and thanked the judge. When she put the dog on the floor, it walked for the first time and kept its tail up. A few minutes later, the same lady showed another dog under Mrs. Mesto. We feel that, if she had thought that Mrs. Mesto had mistreated her pup, she would never have shown the second dog.

This is the simple truth.

Mrs. Ana Mesto always treats all her exhibitors and their dogs with courtesy and respect, since she considers them to be the most important part of a show and, therefore, they deserve this treatment.

Today, a campaign has been launched against this judge but, tomorrow, the same thing might happen to any other. There is always some dissatisfied exhibitor who might decide to organise a similar campaign.

It is very easy to do damage when the facts are not known.

FB is a very useful tool if it is well used, but it can also be a very destructive weapon if used for the wrong purposes.

Before publishing anything, we must check that it is true!!!! Because, if not, a great deal of damage may be done to somebody.

Mrs. Ana Mesto is an excellent person and an excellent judge (she has been judging for many years in many different countries) and you can see the support she has received from all her friends in the FB page Ana Mesto Sup, which has been created by ALL HER SUPPORTERS!!!!

ANA MESTO SUPPORTERS

[Wazzat Xolo]

If this is true which I have no doubt it is.

I wonder how many in the dog world will retract what they have said with an apology.

Not many I bet!

The dog world and its sheep mentality dont you just love watching them!

[Paptacular!]

But surely others watching the video would have noticed if people in the background were 'sped up'?

The video is now removed, so we can't even go back and look.

[Jed]

I came across this on facebook and thought I would share it

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?no...100001735671334

INFORMATION ON THE VIDEO OF ANA MESTO JUDGING

This video is part of a smear campaign against the judge Mrs. Ana Mesto, which has been very well organised by a person whose dog failed to win under her and who is now seeking vengeance in this way.

The video has been manipulated: some of the footage is repeated -such as the part where she takes the pup to the edge of the table several times- and the speed has been increased to make it look more violent.

Can anyone imagine that a judge can examine a dog on the table, give an oral critique to the handler, teach the dog to behave on the table, view its movement and finish judging it in only 1.33 minutes??? A judge like that could judge almost 300 dogs in five hours!!!

The video was put on Facebook and YouTube under a false identity. Mrs. Mesto’s lawyer has complained to YouTube and required that the video be removed, but the damage has already been done.

The real story is that the exhibitor, who had absolutely no experience –and neither did her dog-, came into the ring with the dog dragging its bottom along the floor. It did not walk at all. When she lifted it on to the table, the dog tried to jump off twice. When she again tried to stack it, it turned on her and tried to bite.

The exhibitor apologised to the judge and the latter told her that it was not good for the dog to leave the ring immediately after this negative experience, thinking that it could jump off the table whenever it wanted. She said that, if the exhibitor so wished, she could explain how to control it. The exhibitor said she would be very grateful and this is where the filming began (the events described above do not appear in the video).

The judge explained that she should take the dog by the neck decisively, but without hurting it, because the dog had the habit of turning its head and biting when it was held. She said that it should be taken to the edge of the table so that it would become afraid of jumping off, etc. The exhibitor was delighted and thanked the judge. When she put the dog on the floor, it walked for the first time and kept its tail up. A few minutes later, the same lady showed another dog under Mrs. Mesto. We feel that, if she had thought that Mrs. Mesto had mistreated her pup, she would never have shown the second dog.

This is the simple truth.

Mrs. Ana Mesto always treats all her exhibitors and their dogs with courtesy and respect, since she considers them to be the most important part of a show and, therefore, they deserve this treatment.

Today, a campaign has been launched against this judge but, tomorrow, the same thing might happen to any other. There is always some dissatisfied exhibitor who might decide to organise a similar campaign.

It is very easy to do damage when the facts are not known.

FB is a very useful tool if it is well used, but it can also be a very destructive weapon if used for the wrong purposes.

Before publishing anything, we must check that it is true!!!! Because, if not, a great deal of damage may be done to somebody.

Mrs. Ana Mesto is an excellent person and an excellent judge (she has been judging for many years in many different countries) and you can see the support she has received from all her friends in the FB page Ana Mesto Sup, which has been created by ALL HER SUPPORTERS!!!!

ANA MESTO SUPPORTERS

Thanks for posting that Beck. I think it is bullspit. If the judge was doing that to the dog after the class, why was the other competitor standing waiting to table his dog? If the video was sped up, why were none of the people in the film speeded up?

What does it for me is the increasing look of horror on that poor pup's face. It gaited out nicely with the owner, and then baulked at returning to the judge. The judge might lie, the video might lie, but the little pup didn't lie.

There was some discussion on another list, and apparently this judge has had other complaints lodged against her.

Not that that is important - the bottom line for me is the reaction of the pup.

Edited to add - the pup certainly gaited wonderfully for a pup which dragged it's backside earlier, and it was happy about the owner lifting it off the table, no attempt to bite - nuh, don't believe a word. Saying "This is the truth" is supposed to be the mark of someone who is lying

Seems to me as if the judge is doing a #1 coverup. Not only does this look disgusting to people who don't show (as we have seen here), but it IS disgusting.

If any judge tried to do any or all of those things to any of my dogs, and particularly a pup, in the ring, I would poke her eye out.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Jed

[Erny]

If this is true which I have no doubt it is.

I wonder how many in the dog world will retract what they have said with an apology.

Not many I bet!

The dog world and its sheep mentality don't you just love watching them!

If this includes me - I commented on the handling method I saw. I don't make any apologies for that and it was not my doing that I was manipulated (assuming that the footage has been tampered as described above). I think your comment about "the dog world and its sheep mentality" is insulting. Should we turn our backs on all that we see because it might be that it is fake and wait until perhaps someone will come forth with an explanation of the facts? If we thought that way anyway, how can anyone know that what you've posted above is correct? Would it be "sheep mentality" to believe it just as the initial video footage was believed, now that you have scolded (insulted) people for believing the first? Perhaps it might prove that you are 'guilty' of "sheep mentality" if it turns out that what has been posted in defence of the Judge in question is a lie. Then you will need to apologise to all within the dog world, as you've accused all of them as having "sheep mentality".

I don't apologise for my comment on what I saw of the handling method. This is not sheep mentality - it is people seeing the same thing, thinking it to be true and knowing what looks wrong. They should not be criticised for being duped, assuming that they have been.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Erny

[sas]

Why would anyone apologise?

What was shown on the video regardless of whether it was edited to appear bad is what people commented on.

[toshman]

Why would you tip a little dog off a table? Frontwards or backwards?

I completely agree. It is revolting to think this used as a "training" method. Also it is absolutely unnecessary. What on earth is wrong with using treats to get the pup to love all training ? In the case of table training use the treat to "walk" the puppy a step or two.

I'll agree, too - completely unacceptable and unnecessary to train a young pup using this sort of aversive treatment - surely it's better to give a pup a really positive experience right from the start on the table! It's not rocket science.....

[OSoSwift]

I too think if the video was chopped, edited and sped up then you would notice because people in the back ground would be all over the place.

If the judge is in danger of being kicked out I would imagine they would do what they could to avoid that. I do not think the video was edited and as Jed has said, the puppy's body language increased it didn't chop and change it also wouldn't go near the woman on the back.

I think this is purely damage control.

[Jsk]

I agree complaetely with Jed.

And I think this seems to be a cover up by Ana Mesto.

I came across this on facebook and thought I would share it

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?no...100001735671334

INFORMATION ON THE VIDEO OF ANA MESTO JUDGING

This video is part of a smear campaign against the judge Mrs. Ana Mesto, which has been very well organised by a person whose dog failed to win under her and who is now seeking vengeance in this way.

The video has been manipulated: some of the footage is repeated -such as the part where she takes the pup to the edge of the table several times- and the speed has been increased to make it look more violent.

Can anyone imagine that a judge can examine a dog on the table, give an oral critique to the handler, teach the dog to behave on the table, view its movement and finish judging it in only 1.33 minutes??? A judge like that could judge almost 300 dogs in five hours!!!

The video was put on Facebook and YouTube under a false identity. Mrs. Mesto’s lawyer has complained to YouTube and required that the video be removed, but the damage has already been done.

The real story is that the exhibitor, who had absolutely no experience –and neither did her dog-, came into the ring with the dog dragging its bottom along the floor. It did not walk at all. When she lifted it on to the table, the dog tried to jump off twice. When she again tried to stack it, it turned on her and tried to bite.

The exhibitor apologised to the judge and the latter told her that it was not good for the dog to leave the ring immediately after this negative experience, thinking that it could jump off the table whenever it wanted. She said that, if the exhibitor so wished, she could explain how to control it. The exhibitor said she would be very grateful and this is where the filming began (the events described above do not appear in the video).

The judge explained that she should take the dog by the neck decisively, but without hurting it, because the dog had the habit of turning its head and biting when it was held. She said that it should be taken to the edge of the table so that it would become afraid of jumping off, etc. The exhibitor was delighted and thanked the judge. When she put the dog on the floor, it walked for the first time and kept its tail up. A few minutes later, the same lady showed another dog under Mrs. Mesto. We feel that, if she had thought that Mrs. Mesto had mistreated her pup, she would never have shown the second dog.

This is the simple truth.

Mrs. Ana Mesto always treats all her exhibitors and their dogs with courtesy and respect, since she considers them to be the most important part of a show and, therefore, they deserve this treatment.

Today, a campaign has been launched against this judge but, tomorrow, the same thing might happen to any other. There is always some dissatisfied exhibitor who might decide to organise a similar campaign.

It is very easy to do damage when the facts are not known.

FB is a very useful tool if it is well used, but it can also be a very destructive weapon if used for the wrong purposes.

Before publishing anything, we must check that it is true!!!! Because, if not, a great deal of damage may be done to somebody.

Mrs. Ana Mesto is an excellent person and an excellent judge (she has been judging for many years in many different countries) and you can see the support she has received from all her friends in the FB page Ana Mesto Sup, which has been created by ALL HER SUPPORTERS!!!!

ANA MESTO SUPPORTERS

Thanks for posting that Beck. I think it is bullspit. If the judge was doing that to the dog after the class, why was the other competitor standing waiting to table his dog? If the video was sped up, why were none of the people in the film speeded up?

What does it for me is the increasing look of horror on that poor pup's face. It gaited out nicely with the owner, and then baulked at returning to the judge. The judge might lie, the video might lie, but the little pup didn't lie.

There was some discussion on another list, and apparently this judge has had other complaints lodged against her.

Not that that is important - the bottom line for me is the reaction of the pup.

Edited to add - the pup certainly gaited wonderfully for a pup which dragged it's backside earlier, and it was happy about the owner lifting it off the table, no attempt to bite - nuh, don't believe a word. Saying "This is the truth" is supposed to be the mark of someone who is lying

Seems to me as if the judge is doing a #1 coverup. Not only does this look disgusting to people who don't show (as we have seen here), but it IS disgusting.

If any judge tried to do any or all of those things to any of my dogs, and particularly a pup, in the ring, I would poke her eye out.