Judge's Behaviour On Video?

[ravenau1]

There were a bunch of other people watching, or standing around. Why did no one intervene if her behaviour was so extreme? No one looks even mildly disturbed.

[_PL_]

There were a bunch of other people watching, or standing around. Why did no one intervene if her behaviour was so extreme? No one looks even mildly disturbed.

Probably because she was being filmed.

Not that the judge is doing the right thing and it all happened so fast - but if she reportedly has a reputation, and someone gives her a young wiggly dog then films the result with the owner just standing there then..... it's kind of like watching a setup.

No idea how shows work so perhaps it's not my place to comment.

[Wazzat Xolo]

Well I can certainly say I know a judge I will never show under as "They": handle the dogs testicles that hard and SQUEEZE them so hard that the dog is a quivering mess.

This is also wrong and they are here in Australia, !!

[periannath]

Agreed that the judge should be judging the dog and nothing more.I am sure that sort of handling of an exhibit in Australia would have had people screaming and rightly so.I honestly don't think it would happen here.

I also find it disturbing that none of the spectators seemed to find her handling of that puppy untoward.Poor little mite.The imploring look it gives it's handler while the judge is gripping his throat is heartbreaking.The judge looks way too practised at how she was handling that puppy for my for my liking(:

[huski]

I have had professionals handle my dogs in ways that still makes me feel sick to my stomach, years later. Never again will I allow people to handle my dogs in ways I don't feel comfortable or KNOW are wrong.

As for Pewither's comment that the judge was just doing what was acceptable... bullshit. There is never any excuse to abuse a dog just because everyone else is doing it.

[OSoSwift]

I have had professionals handle my dogs in ways that still makes me feel sick to my stomach, years later. Never again will I allow people to handle my dogs in ways I don't feel comfortable or KNOW are wrong.

As for Pewither's comment that the judge was just doing what was acceptable... bullshit. There is never any excuse to abuse a dog just because everyone else is doing it.

Hear here!

[fuzzy82]

Snorts coffee over keyboard. Recovers. Quite an aspiration seeing we are talking about the country that has zero tolerance for anyone who speaks out against the horrors of bull-fighting. Or the well documented treatment of goats prior to private slaughter. Or the treatment of horses in 'training' of fighting bulls (a padded rug does not prevent broken ribs or disembowelling).

I think the cultural okay-ness is the key, and it's sadly too entrenched to change in this generation or the next. They won't set a precedent in one area when the economy is so supported by another. Although I agree with the idea, I just don't think the country of the Conquistadors and the Inquisition will go along with it.

Not entirely correct. A recent survey shows that more than half of the Spanish population is now against bull fighting. It's just that the government isn't going to do anything until there is a very large outcry against it, which is why it is taking so long. Bull fighting was recently banned in one region in Spain, and others are expected to follow.

[periannath]

It's very disappointing to hear that we have judges that are mishandling exhibits here.I hope they get reported.I guess we can only go by our own experiences and I have never had a dog treated unkindly by a judge.Complete disinterest and a bit of ignorance about my breed,yes but I can live with that Mind you I haven't done any all breeds showing for a while now ,just specialities where the judges have the same passion for the breed as the exhibitors do and the dogs tend to get lots of affection from judges .More than they could reasonably expect in the all breeds ring.

[Tralee]

Snorts coffee over keyboard. Recovers. Quite an aspiration seeing we are talking about the country that has zero tolerance for anyone who speaks out against the horrors of bull-fighting. Or the well documented treatment of goats prior to private slaughter. Or the treatment of horses in 'training' of fighting bulls (a padded rug does not prevent broken ribs or disembowelling).

I think the cultural okay-ness is the key, and it's sadly too entrenched to change in this generation or the next. They won't set a precedent in one area when the economy is so supported by another. Although I agree with the idea, I just don't think the country of the Conquistadors and the Inquisition will go along with it.

Not entirely correct. A recent survey shows that more than half of the Spanish population is now against bull fighting. It's just that the government isn't going to do anything until there is a very large outcry against it, which is why it is taking so long. Bull fighting was recently banned in one region in Spain, and others are expected to follow.

Exactly my point.

Judges have a responsibility and an obligation to lead and teach, to represent the 'sport' with advocacy and not to do the other or bring Dog Showing, or themselves, into disrepute.

Who knows the anthropological traditions and cultural practices, or the laws and sanctions, of a foreign country.

The video made me sick to the stomach, but I am not going to cast the first stone against this women.

Her treatment of the dog is very, very unfortunate and so are the times when we all make mistakes.

That said, it didn't stop me reporting my neighbour to the RSPCA for cruelty when he was hitting my dogs across the head with a stick in my presence and in my absence.

Impugning people, good or bad, is not a sport. It is simply rude, undignified, ignorant and unintelligent.

Nobody has all the facts

The video achieves the purpose of this thread. It disgusts and appalls.

So can our comments.

[raz]

It might be time to stop for a while, and think about this poor judge

People ARE thinking about the judge - and that they'll never let her near their table dog!

[espinay2]

Could someone post a video of the technique being done correctly?

Can't post the video, but Pat Hastings shows one very good version of the technique in her 'Puppy Puzzle' DVD (she gently draws the puppys paws across the table - no rocking and no dropping)

The technique needs to be done GENTLY and in a postive fashion and can be done slowly. There is no need to frighten a puppy as all you want to do is have it think the ground is a little unstable so it will stand still when placed on stable ground.

[Tralee]

It might be time to stop for a while, and think about this poor judge

People ARE thinking about the judge - and that they'll never let her near their table dog!

Exactly.

And a well placed and timely complaint may bring about some redress.

I don't have the Code of Conduct for Judges but I am sure there are practices and procedures for dealing with incidents like this.

But, bringing a judge to account is not an easy or enviable task in an elitist environment.

I may be a little fish in the Big Wide World of Dog Showing but when my dogs are presented, and we have the attention of the presiding judge, we are the whole Cosmos as far as I'm concerned.

Somehow, I think a person nearly two thousand years ago was saying very much the same thing.

[brightonrock]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but whens Dogs were shown in the 60's in England there was very minimal handling by the judge. The dog was largely judged by the presence in the ring and movement and overall type. I understand in Russia dogs are handled by the exhibitor to display teeth and also testicles so the judge doesn't put a hand on them. This video has highlighted how much hands on is used now in the extreme.

[Sheridan]

Exactly my point.

Judges have a responsibility and an obligation to lead and teach, to represent the 'sport' with advocacy and not to do the other or bring Dog Showing, or themselves, into disrepute.

Who knows the anthropological traditions and cultural practices, or the laws and sanctions, of a foreign country.

The video made me sick to the stomach, but I am not going to cast the first stone against this women.

Her treatment of the dog is very, very unfortunate and so are the times when we all make mistakes.

That said, it didn't stop me reporting my neighbour to the RSPCA for cruelty when he was hitting my dogs across the head with a stick in my presence and in my absence.

Impugning people, good or bad, is not a sport. It is simply rude, undignified, ignorant and unintelligent.

Nobody has all the facts

The video achieves the purpose of this thread. It disgusts and appalls.

So can our comments.

Do you think her handling of the dog was an accident?

[Loving my Oldies]

I know nothing about showing, but I know about not frightening puppies

Frankly, I think the judge is nuts and not just with the extreme handling; that long hair swishing everywhere, getting into dogs' eyes, flapping against their faces, etc etc, I'm surprised she hasn't been bitten. Testament to the good behaviour of dogs on the table.

She seemed to have a case of verbal diarrhoea too.

Poor dog.

[benshiva]

I know nothing about showing, but I know about not frightening puppies

Frankly, I think the judge is nuts and not just with the extreme handling; that long hair swishing everywhere, getting into dogs' eyes, flapping against their faces, etc etc, I'm surprised she hasn't been bitten. Testament to the good behaviour of dogs on the table.

She seemed to have a case of verbal diarrhoea too.

Poor dog.

I think the puppy may have got a bite in on her hand if you watch her as the puppy goes away on its out and back. She grabs her hand and then wipes it.

Poor little puppy. She should never be allowed to judge again.

The hair in the puppy's face annoyed me too

[halfthewords]

What is she trying to do, scare the pup into thinking it's falling off the table?! I have zero knowledge about shows/judges and what is acceptable handling, but that is clearly NOT. The poor dog. The owner looked a bit distraught, too.

All I can say is, if she tried that on any of mine, especially Carl, she'd need facial reconstruction.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Hanna Gibbs

[Rebanne]

Well I can certainly say I know a judge I will never show under as "They": handle the dogs testicles that hard and SQUEEZE them so hard that the dog is a quivering mess.

This is also wrong and they are here in Australia, !!

well lets hope you reported it then cause if you didn't you are condoning it

[Miranda]

As part of their training all of my youngsters regardless off their breed , learn to stand on the table. I find the method of picking up the pup and rocking it very usefull, the same with putting the pup very close to the back of the table and allowing the back legs to drop if the pup backs up. It's not done in the way that she demonstrated, it's a tiny part of the training and I aim to to make the table a "nice place" to be.

I was disgusted with the judges actions and there is no way on this earth I'd allow a judge to do what she did, to any of my dogs. If the dogs behaviour was so bad that she couldn;t examine the animal ( which I couldn't see the dog misbehaving in such a way ), the exhibit should have been excused from the ring.

If I was next in line to be judged, I would have withdrawn my exbibit, rather than have someone like her potentially ruin my dog.

I train exactly the same way RSG, in fact I used these techniques on three very wilful eight week old pups on Sunday. However, like you, I find this judge's actions totally unacceptable.

[Miranda]

Hey Staranais

Many people trust, and expect Judges to set an example for all those who are in effect, putting their faith in them to lead and teach.

This is especially true of people new to showing and just starting out.

Some Judges not only think that it's OK but return home and brag about their 'cruelty' to other breeders.

My visit to Dareton, not too distant far, is evidence that they do "spook" bigger dogs but in this case, especially puppies.

And not just one judge, but a pair of judges.

Fortunately, my dog has mellowed beautifully, which is no accident, since he suffered for many years after his early ideal with this pair of creeps.

Dogs NSW and all dog authorities, should suspended and permanently disqualify deceitful, dishonest and cruel judges.

It would be an easy matter to collate the statistics from shows with incidents in the show ring, during presentation particularly, and correlate them to the judges presiding.

Maybe, some leadership from the authorities will help eradicate bad sport-person-ship, that is still too common, and more often than not, makes what should be an enjoyable and entertaining day, horrendous.

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

pewithers I have been involved in dogs for 36 years and have been to literally hundreds of shows (including shows in the U.S., UK. and Europe) and have never seen a judge deliberately set out to be cruel to a dog in the ring. I've come across a couple of judges who were a little heavy handed (usually when checking the mouth), but the vast majority of judges handle exhibits in a careful and considerate manner. I have never seen any judge try to 'spook' a dog in the ring nor have I ever met a judge who bragged about their cruelty to other breeders.

My experiences of dog showing have been generally positive, but perhaps I see and interpret things in a different manner.