Judge's Behaviour On Video?

[indigirl]

She looked like she was trying to turn the pup inside out? Unbelievable. The poor puppy

[SkySoaringMagpie]

The owner is worse and should have walked away immediately. Glory over abuse

The judge did it, not the owner. And the owner's reasons for not objecting probably had nothing to do with "glory". FB is not exactly a robust investigation forum, but I gather from the discussion there that the exhibitor was not experienced.

[~Shepherd~]

The owner is worse and should have walked away immediately. Glory over abuse

The judge did it, not the owner. And the owner's reasons for not objecting probably had nothing to do with "glory". FB is not exactly a robust investigation forum, but I gather from the discussion there that the exhibitor was not experienced.

the owner allowed it

[Staranais]

The owner certainly should have stepped in and stopped it, but many people are loath to speak out and contradict authority figures (like behaviourists, vets, show judges). It's just the way many people are - look at the Milgram experiments, they're quite fascinating. Most people are followers, not leaders, even if they're otherwise nice people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I'm more amazed that the judge thought this was OK to do in public - surely she knew people could take photo and video of what she was doing? She must have thought no-one would object?

I would also be kind of disappointed if my dog didn't bite a judge who was doing that to her... mind you, the judge probably wouldn't have had the balls to try to do that to a bigger dog like mine.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

The owner certainly should have stepped in and stopped it, but many people are loath to speak out and contradict authority figures (like behaviourists, vets, show judges). It's just the way many people are - look at the Milgram experiments, they're quite fascinating. Most people are followers, not leaders, even if they're otherwise nice people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I'm more amazed that the judge thought this was OK to do in public - surely she knew people could take photo and video of what she was doing? She must have thought no-one would object?

Exactly, re authority figures. It's not just restricted to show, I've seen people allow obedience trainers to do things that they were very uncomfortable with because the trainer was the "expert" in the position of authority. Some of the self-styled experts on YouTube scare the willies out of me.

As for "OK to do in public" people are still catching up with the idea that there are now camera phones everywhere, I expect that in the next 2-3 years people will start adjusting their behaviour much more. The other thing is that many of those phones/video recorders pick up speech as well. OH video'd me at a show a while back for training purposes and the people standing nearby had a lot to say about a few of the dogs and handlers in the ring. I don't think they realised that video also includes audio . It was just stupid bitching so I'd never do anything with it, but it goes to show that there are recorders everywhere.

[Aidan3]

As for "OK to do in public" people are still catching up with the idea that there are now camera phones everywhere, I expect that in the next 2-3 years people will start adjusting their behaviour much more.

We are living in the Panopticon.

[helen]

What was really sad is that the puppy is displaying beautiful body language/calming signals while standing, looking away from her and she then forced the pup to look at her, it then just froze on the spot

[MalteseLuna]

The poor dog looks terrified and doesn't want to go back to the judge. I am appalled at that Judge's behavior Poor little Maltese.

[Wazzat Xolo]

In response to authority figues!!

I HAVE and will continue to correct people when they are wrong including judges!!

Its not about glory its about right and wrong!!

[SpikesPuppy]

I have no issue with tipping the dog off the table (although I prefer to drop the back legs - have never done the front but know people who do) but the fact that it was the judge doing it and also the rest of her actions .........

As for the dog not returning to the judge afterthe up and back- my puppy does exactly te same thing(although gaining in confidence now) however has never been abused in the ring. (just motioning this in case non show people are watching a show and it happens- it may just be a phase, not abuse- likewise tipping off the table).

I am always wary of Spanish judges, to be quite honest. I have found through personal experience that they tend to be very heavy handed with the dogs.

[WreckitWhippet]

As part of their training all of my youngsters regardless off their breed , learn to stand on the table. I find the method of picking up the pup and rocking it very usefull, the same with putting the pup very close to the back of the table and allowing the back legs to drop if the pup backs up. It's not done in the way that she demonstrated, it's a tiny part of the training and I aim to to make the table a "nice place" to be.

I was disgusted with the judges actions and there is no way on this earth I'd allow a judge to do what she did, to any of my dogs. If the dogs behaviour was so bad that she couldn;t examine the animal ( which I couldn't see the dog misbehaving in such a way ), the exhibit should have been excused from the ring.

If I was next in line to be judged, I would have withdrawn my exbibit, rather than have someone like her potentially ruin my dog.

[Shaar]

How to completely wreck a show dog in one easy step.

It is going to take a lot of work to get that dog trusting tables and the judge again.

I feel sorry for the dog, but I also feel sorry for the owner, if it were me I would probably be too shocked to say anything at the time.

edit - Silly this was, the dog didn't even look like it moved before she started hanging it off the table, I thought he was being quite good!

I would have loved mine to behave that well as a puppy!

Edited December 5, 2010 by Shaar

[darlingdog]

A friend posted this video on her Facebook, and to be honest it left me horrified.

It is the behaviour of a judge and the way she handles a dog at a show in Spain. Not being familiar with showing, I thought I may post it here to see whether it is 'not normal'/ 'abusive' or whether it is part of the norm, and I am just reacting based on being unfamiliar with the showing worl ( particularly the showing of smaller breeds).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRyREk20v7w...layer_embedded#!

Personally I find this behaviour by the judge horrific, the poor dog looks completely and utterly scared

Judges behaviour is appalling and in my opinion so is the fact the HANDLER did NOTHING to take the dog out of the situation !!! FFS it's a dog show and there is always another one, get your dog OUT OF THAT SITUATION !!

[indigirl]

How to completely wreck a show dog in one easy step.

It is going to take a lot of work to get that dog trusting tables and the judge again.

I feel sorry for the dog, but I also feel sorry for the owner, if it were me I would probably be too shocked to say anything at the time.

edit - Silly this was, the dog didn't even look like it moved before she started hanging it off the table, I thought he was being quite good!

I would have loved mine to behave that well as a puppy!

The pup moved one of its front feet, and for some reason that seemed to trigger the Judge into manhandling it.

[brightonrock]

I have no issue with tipping the dog off the table (although I prefer to drop the back legs - have never done the front but know people who do)

What do you mean ?

[Tralee]

The owner certainly should have stepped in and stopped it, but many people are loath to speak out and contradict authority figures (like behaviourists, vets, show judges). It's just the way many people are - look at the Milgram experiments, they're quite fascinating. Most people are followers, not leaders, even if they're otherwise nice people.

I'm more amazed that the judge thought this was OK to do in public - surely she knew people could take photo and video of what she was doing? She must have thought no-one would object?

I would also be kind of disappointed if my dog didn't bite a judge who was doing that to her... mind you, the judge probably wouldn't have had the balls to try to do that to a bigger dog like mine.

Hey Staranais

Many people trust, and expect Judges to set an example for all those who are in effect, putting their faith in them to lead and teach.

This is especially true of people new to showing and just starting out.

Some Judges not only think that it's OK but return home and brag about their 'cruelty' to other breeders.

My visit to Dareton, not too distant far, is evidence that they do "spook" bigger dogs but in this case, especially puppies.

And not just one judge, but a pair of judges.

Fortunately, my dog has mellowed beautifully, which is no accident, since he suffered for many years after his early ideal with this pair of creeps.

Dogs NSW and all dog authorities, should suspended and permanently disqualify deceitful, dishonest and cruel judges.

It would be an easy matter to collate the statistics from shows with incidents in the show ring, during presentation particularly, and correlate them to the judges presiding.

Maybe, some leadership from the authorities will help eradicate bad sport-person-ship, that is still too common, and more often than not, makes what should be an enjoyable and entertaining day, horrendous.

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

[WreckitWhippet]

The owner certainly should have stepped in and stopped it, but many people are loath to speak out and contradict authority figures (like behaviourists, vets, show judges). It's just the way many people are - look at the Milgram experiments, they're quite fascinating. Most people are followers, not leaders, even if they're otherwise nice people.

I'm more amazed that the judge thought this was OK to do in public - surely she knew people could take photo and video of what she was doing? She must have thought no-one would object?

I would also be kind of disappointed if my dog didn't bite a judge who was doing that to her... mind you, the judge probably wouldn't have had the balls to try to do that to a bigger dog like mine.

Hey Staranais

Many people trust, and expect Judges to set an example for all those who are in effect, putting their faith in them to lead and teach.

This is especially true of people new to showing and just starting out.

Some Judges not only think that it's OK but return home and brag about their 'cruelty' to other breeders.

My visit to Dareton, not too distant far, is evidence that they do "spook" bigger dogs but in this case, especially puppies.

And not just one judge, but a pair of judges.

Fortunately, my dog has mellowed beautifully, which is no accident, since he suffered for many years after his early ideal with this pair of creeps.

Dogs NSW and all dog authorities, should suspended and permanently disqualify deceitful, dishonest and cruel judges.

It would be an easy matter to collate the statistics from shows with incidents in the show ring, during presentation particularly, and correlate them to the judges presiding.

Maybe, some leadership from the authorities will help eradicate bad sport-person-ship, that is still too common, and more often than not, makes what should be an enjoyable and entertaining day, horrendous.

Maremmas are a guardian breed. That's what they do, whatever their age, they guard.

Dog knows what planet you live on PW but it's not the same one as me, when it comes to shows and judges.

I've been showing for 15 years now and have come across one or maybe two that were hard on the dogs. When I say hard, they are a bit heavy handed but certainly nothing like the judge in that clip.

I doubt the judges were out to get you or your dog, why would they ? your a tiny fish in the big showing ocean and I can see why they'd be defeitful, dishonest or cruel and single you out.

Watch how the judges handle the dogs prior to your class and if you think they are a bit heavy handed or off putting, don;t put your pup/dog in that situation and withdraw it.

[Starkehre]

I could be mistaken, but it appeared to me that the judge had a disgusted look on her face as soon as she saw the dog would not complete it's out and back.

I too felt sick watching this. Sure it is possible that it may not have been as awful for the dog as it appears to me, but it is not the point. Judges should not do any training of exhibitors' dogs in the ring. Ihave seen and know of plenty of dogs that have been put off showing owing to judges over zealous handling... mind you none of it was as bad as this.

Training? I have never seen training like that. Have you?

Whatever she was attempting to do, what she was doing was abuse - she pulled the dog off the table times, she had it by the neck shaking its liver loose -the pup was very upset. I thought it ran out very well, considering. Strange that it wouldn't gait back to the judge

Poor competitor had no idea what to do ... should have poked the judges eye out. Wonder what the penalty for that is? More experienced competitors would have, this one was not so experienced.

There is visual proof. The complaint has been lodged. The licence will be revoked. The video was taken because visual proof was necessary to have the licence revoked.

A less experienced person would care, and the way they would show it, is to stop showing their dogs

There is no proof otherwise. However that was one crap judge amongst good ones. Why should anyone give up with a promising judge because they found a crap judge.

Show dog world - is horrified. The video was sent around overseas, and now in Australia.

No, I have not seen training done like this before, but then I do not show Toy Breeds.

Please note, when I used the term "training" I did so on reflection of someone elses comment that went something along the lines of ..... that the handler was receiving free and excellent training from this judge.

I use the term "training" very loosely in my previous post and was in no way condoning the judges actions, as you would see by my post.

[Tralee]

Thankyou ReadySetGo

I think I live on the same planet as the two dozen people who rallied behind me, against the judges, or if you like, in support of my dog.

Including the multi-breed judge from Broken Hill.

This planet would be a better place if people could accept other people's point of view, and encourage others not to be judgmental and dictatorial.

Confuscius said: In order to recognise an honest person, one must first themself be honest.

What this means is: if something doesn't 'ring' fair and honest, from your own experience of fairness and honesty, them more probably than not. It's not.

My dogs and I have been vindicated. But it's not forgotten. I paid the bills for the animal behaviourists, legal counsel, and travel to Sydney.

Edited December 5, 2010 by pewithers

[WreckitWhippet]

Thankyou ReadySetGo

I think I live on the same planet as the two dozen people who rallied behind me, against the judges, or if you like, in support of my dog.

Including the multi-breed judge from Broken Hill.

This planet would be a better place if people could accept other people's point of view, and encourage others not to be judgmental and dictatorial.

Confuscius said: In order to recognise an honest person, one must first themself be honest.

What this means is: if something doesn't 'ring' fair and honest, from your own experience of fairness and honesty, them more probably than not. It's not.

My dogs and I have been vindicated. But it's not forgotten. I paid the bills for the animal behaviourists, legal counsel, and travel to Sydney.

You had fear aggressive dogs with problems long before that event, did you not ?