Rehabilitating An Aggressive Dog

[Agility Dogs]

We have a problem at one of the dog clubs I'm involved in. A dog attacked another dog the other week - while there was no damage it was more good luck than good management with the dog dragging the owner 3m to get to the dog and then refusing to let go of him. The dog has been aggressive towards this dog (and others) on a significant number of occasions now.

Long story short - a behaviourist will be involved in the process and I'm not wanting to debate techniques or processes, but as a starting poing this person has asked for SMART goals.

Specific - tick

Measurable - tick

Achieveable - hmmmm.......let's say tick.

Relevant - tick

Time specific - this is where I have an query. Do you think it is possible to set time frames on goals when dealing with escalating aggression?

[Staranais]

I'm not a trainer but have owned & trained a very DA dog in the past. So for what it's worth, I don't know if it would be possible to put a specific time frame on when or if the dog should be "fixed" or "cured".

But I think it should be possible to put a time frame on when the owner should see some results. If you've been doing something for several sessions and see no improvement at all, I'd question if the technique was doing anything useful.

The SMART goals sound like a very good idea to me.

[Agility Dogs]

I'm not a trainer but have owned & trained a very DA dog in the past. So for what it's worth, I don't know if it would be possible to put a specific time frame on when or if the dog should be "fixed" or "cured".

But I think it should be possible to put a time frame on when the owner should see some results. If you've been doing something for several sessions and see no improvement at all, I'd question if the technique was doing anything useful.

The SMART goals sound like a very good idea to me.

GREAT point - I was too focussed on the end goal, not the intermediate steps.

[Aidan3]

Time specific - this is where I have an query. Do you think it is possible to set time frames on goals when dealing with escalating aggression?

Depends on the goal. I do expect to see goals met every single session, but I wouldn't guess at how big they might be!

[Cosmolo]

What Staranais and Aidan said.

I wanted to add though that i think its very important the owner is given a realistics expectation of what is likely to be able to be achieved. I am sure the behaviourist will do this but i think its unfortunate when people are told 'see a behaviourist, cure the dog' and are then disappointed or frustrated. (not suggesting thats what is happening- i have just seen it a few too many times recently!)

[JulesP]

I actually avoid time frames and goals to a large extent. I mean you can go out and think I am going to work on blah but as you start you find xyz has fallen apart. With a class I might have a list of stuff to get done but if at the start of class not one pup is focusing then we will be working on that until we have focus. Sometimes the opposite is true and you reach goals quicker.

I agree in this case you do need some measurable to see if the particular method is working.

[55chevy]

We have a problem at one of the dog clubs I'm involved in. A dog attacked another dog the other week - while there was no damage it was more good luck than good management with the dog dragging the owner 3m to get to the dog and then refusing to let go of him. The dog has been aggressive towards this dog (and others) on a significant number of occasions now.

Long story short - a behaviourist will be involved in the process and I'm not wanting to debate techniques or processes, but as a starting poing this person has asked for SMART goals.

Specific - tick

Measurable - tick

Achieveable - hmmmm.......let's say tick.

Relevant - tick

Time specific - this is where I have an query. Do you think it is possible to set time frames on goals when dealing with escalating aggression?

You would be looking around 10, 15 minutes to correct the behaviour in time frame, maybe less depending on the hardness of the dog's temperament

[Vickie]

10-15 minutes to correct a behaviour?

I would have thought 1-1.5 seconds would be ample!

Now to prevent a behaviour from recurring...that would take longer, depending on the dog, handler etc.

sorry, couldn't resist

Edited December 4, 2010 by Vickie

[huski]

You would be looking around 10, 15 minutes to correct the behaviour in time frame, maybe less depending on the hardness of the dog's temperament

Aggression can be fixed in 10-15 minutes? Sign me up, 55Chevy. Could you let me know your name and contact details so I can recommend you to all of my friends???

[~*Shell*~]

You would be looking around 10, 15 minutes to correct the behaviour in time frame, maybe less depending on the hardness of the dog's temperament

There are not enough laughs in the world to cover the hilarity of this comment. I don't know who you know who can cure aggression in 10 minutes but I for one would like to know so I can see how they do it. I had mutiple behaviourists tell me to have my dog put down over the space of 18 months because his dog aggression couldn't ever be cured so anyone who can do it in 10 minutes deserves some kind of prize.

Agility dogs: It took me about 8 weeks from the time i saw a behaviourist whose methods worked for us but we're the exception in that Zero turned around pretty quickly - for many it's about life long management, not a cure. Tell the owners of the dog to prepare themselves to overhaul everything they have done with the dog in the past and not expect that their dog will ever want or be able to play with another dog. I went in just hoping I could take Zero on a walk without him trying to kill something and he's so much better than that but I also have seen some really awesome trainers who went in expecting that their dog would be perfect around other dogs but who probably never will be. If they find that their dog isn't getting better, tell them to try another method!

[Agility Dogs]

Thanks everyone for your input. In reality, I don't think we can 'fix' the aggression in this (or any) dog. This will be more about equipping the handler with the skills to keep contact with the dog and giving the dog the ability to work with the handler instead of looking for other reinforcement (in this case other dogs.) It MAY be that the dog/handler cannot achieve this in the environment they want to play in, but we need to try.

Chevvy55 - thanks for your valuable input, but rightly or wrongly both the club and the umbrella organisations it is associated with do not allow the use of aversives in training. If they are required then the dog is probably not stable enough to play this sport and needs to find another outlet. I say this without any judgement. There are situations that I won't put one of my dogs in because I know he can't cope with them.

In this case the handler is going to have to be good enough to prevent the unwanted behaviour by making sure the dog is ready and proofed before moving to the next step in the process.

For a start we've broken the goals down as follows:

The actual work to be done is another story and will be worked up once the goals are all determined.

1. Dog can work with handler in the adjacent field when the equipment is out.

2. Dog can work in the training field when the equipment is out and keep his focus on the handler.

3. Dog can work in the adjacent field when other dogs are running.

4. Dog can work on the training field (on lead) when dogs are running.

5. Dog can work on training field (off lead) when dogs are running. (not in class, off to one side)

6. Dog can tolerate being in proximity to other dogs and still be focussed on handler.

7. At this point he can begin to be re-integrated into the class.

I don't think we can attach time frames to these (or similar) goals - to do that would be to set her up for failure as we have no way of knowing how long each step might take.

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome!

[JulesP]

AD speaking now as a handler - I would go nuts if this dog was allowed off lead in a class I was in.

[Agility Dogs]

AD speaking now as a handler - I would go nuts if this dog was allowed off lead in a class I was in.

That is a LONG way down the track, once it is proofed in all the other previous behaviours. IFF (if and only if) dog an handler can prove they have to ability to cope.

[Vickie]

AD, another thing the owner of this dog could consider is having some privates, where they can progress skill, teamwork & motivation wise without having to deal with the presence of other dogs.

I have worked with a few dogs this year who have aggression problems. They are also seeing a behaviourist, we just work on the agility and are having good results.

[poodlefan]

Goals are one thing - reality is another.

My personal theory is that you don't rehabilitate or "cure" aggressive dogs – what you do is raise the trigger point at which they aggress. That can require many different things and many different timeframes depending on the dog and the handler. Some dogs never make it back to class.

I've seen my share of aggression incidents in agility and in every one of them I'd say the handler's failure to notice and control their dog's escalating reactivity was a significant factor. They simply miss the signs and they don't react fast enough when their dog focuses on another. The time to call your dog is when its by your side and turning towards the other dog - NOT when its 2 metres away and fully engaged in an attack.

So for this dog/handler team the first step for me is NO AGILITY TRAINING UNTIL THE DOG'S REACTION CAN BE CONTROLLED AWAY FROM EQUIPMENT

That's goal one. No equipment and no training until the behaviourist says its OK. My guess is that won't be immediate. This dog clearly means business and until such time as the handler can demonstrate effective control, she shouldn’t have it near other dogs unless it is muzzled and on lead.

From a liability perspective you have a dog with a history of aggression. If you allow it to continue training and it nails another dog, the club or trainer running the classes will be up for all costs. From the point of view of other class members, they aren't guinea pigs or training aids for this dog and handler. It's hard enough training your own dog without having to keep an eye on someone else's. An aggressive incident towards some dogs will set them back months. Play it safe.

I'd suspend the dog from all agility training until it can pass a temperament and control test set by you.

Edited December 6, 2010 by poodlefan

[corvus]

Is it just an agility-related problem or does it occur in other scenarios as well? Is this agility-specific plan the whole thing or just part of the treatment?

It seems to me that rehabilitation attempts sometimes go on forever, but I wonder if they would with a super systematic and anal record-keeping approach. I mean recording the dog's response every trial and videoing every session to make sure the handler recognises tiny behavioural responses that might indicate bigger responses to come and where they have made mistakes in previous trials. Maybe even breaking everything down into more detail. Like how aroused is the dog from trial to trial, are we working on quiet behaviours or active behaviours, quick or slow, reward rate... If you know how long (or how many trials in what state of arousal) it takes for the dog to get from one level of tolerance to another, I think you have some idea of how long other steps should take. If a step takes much longer under the same conditions, you might consider you are going through several steps. Doesn't help much in setting time frames, but it gives you an idea.

[poodlefan]

Is it just an agility-related problem or does it occur in other scenarios as well? Is this agility-specific plan the whole thing or just part of the treatment?

It seems to me that rehabilitation attempts sometimes go on forever, but I wonder if they would with a super systematic and anal record-keeping approach. I mean recording the dog's response every trial and videoing every session to make sure the handler recognises tiny behavioural responses that might indicate bigger responses to come and where they have made mistakes in previous trials. Maybe even breaking everything down into more detail. Like how aroused is the dog from trial to trial, are we working on quiet behaviours or active behaviours, quick or slow, reward rate... If you know how long (or how many trials in what state of arousal) it takes for the dog to get from one level of tolerance to another, I think you have some idea of how long other steps should take. If a step takes much longer under the same conditions, you might consider you are going through several steps. Doesn't help much in setting time frames, but it gives you an idea.

These are classes Corvus, not trials. An instructor has enough to do training all other class members on equipment and handling. Dealing with significant behavioural issues is outside their area of responsiblity IMO.

While the dog presents a danger to other dogs in classes, it simply cannot be allowed to train IMO.

Edited December 6, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

Just wanted to add:

Incidents like this are the reason that my club introduced a "control test" to evaluate dogs' on and offlead focus and control before allowing them to train in agility.

It significantly reduced the number of incidents we were getting in classes.

Perhaps an objective test she must pass before coming back to training might help focus her on improving her dog's behaviour (if possible)

Edited December 6, 2010 by poodlefan

[JulesP]

My immediate concern is that the dog can drag the owner to get to other dogs. I know you are a positive club but how are you addressing that? It really needs some gear on it that gives the handler control. Even for out of the club. Or it needs a muzzle.

[poodlefan]

My immediate concern is that the dog can drag the owner to get to other dogs. I know you are a positive club but how are you addressing that? It really needs some gear on it that gives the handler control. Even for out of the club. Or it needs a muzzle.

Lets not forget that agility training is done OFF LEAD. No dog is onlead for any part of training at my club.