Labkisses Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 Hi guys Just wondering how many breeders use both nutrigel and a calcium supplement (sandoz etc) while your bitch is in labor? Would you use one or the other or both? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 We give Sandoz yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 We give Sandoz yes. x2 after every pup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 I had a litter last night and used both. Used the nutrigel because my girl hadn't eaten for over 48hrs prior to whelping and as it was a large litter wanted her to have some energy. Had the calcium syrup on hand just in case, I used it three times, only when I thought the time between pups was too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 Tasha shot hers out very quickly, but she had the calcium right after and has been on it since. Nutragel only if she was off her food and to stimulate her appetite, no meat only high quality puppy kibble (and lots of it!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 I use calcium tablets 1 after the first pup arrives then 1 an hr till whelp completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carluke Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Yep Nutrigel hourly about 2-5 cm long strip onto roof of mouth and approx 5 ml of Calcium Sandoz half hourly from commencment of delivery to completion. Cheers Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Yep Nutrigel hourly about 2-5 cm long strip onto roof of mouth and approx 5 ml of Calcium Sandoz half hourly from commencment of delivery to completion. Cheers Kate Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 I use calcium tablets 1 after the first pup arrives then 1 an hr till whelp completed Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 I had a litter last night and used both. Used the nutrigel because my girl hadn't eaten for over 48hrs prior to whelping and as it was a large litter wanted her to have some energy.Had the calcium syrup on hand just in case, I used it three times, only when I thought the time between pups was too long. Does she eat the placentas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I use calcium tablets 1 after the first pup arrives then 1 an hr till whelp completed Why? Always been led to believe it helps with contractions ??/correct me if i am ill informed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I use calcium tablets 1 after the first pup arrives then 1 an hr till whelp completed Why? Always been led to believe it helps with contractions ??/correct me if i am ill informed Doesn't do a thing & can upset the bitches natural calcium production if given before or during labour.. It is not the same as a vet giving an injection of oxytocin. Opinion has changed on calcium use now. After the birth is finished is fine. Re the Nutrigel. For those that have had children themselves Did you want food during labour ? Last thing on your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 If your bitch is in good nick and you allow her to do what comes naturally and eat the placentas you are better off giving her nothing more than fresh water. When the dog is understress like during labour she needs her parathyroid hormone to cut in because the way calcium operates in the body is that it lays down calcium in the bones when things are easy and takes from it when things get rough .To do this the parathyroid hormone needs to cut in when she needs it but if you suppliment her body isnt used to the natural process and the parathyroid hormone doesnt cut in. Because of this giving her calcium supps orally is quite dangerous - its completely different to a calcium injection which goes straight to the blood stream and used if the bitch is showing signs of eclampsia because her body forgets how to go after its natural source to stabilize the calcium needed. Rather than increase contractions it helps nerves relax, and is very important in the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. The calcium level in the brain and spinal chord is kept constant no matter what is happening to the calcium levels in the rest of the body. If you give her nutrigel - Simple carbohydrates tamper with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach and the body needs the hydrochloric acid to fully metabolise the calcium. There is also other issues relating to how calcium needs other nutrients to assimilate and if you give too much of one without the other you can get a variety of problems. Trust the bitch - she knows whats best for her and just as at most when a human is in labour they suck on ice and dont get sweet vitamin pastes given to them or loads of calcium to help contractions the dog doesnt need it either especially as the enzymes and hormones + nutrients she needs are in the placentas which she eats during the whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I had a litter last night and used both. Used the nutrigel because my girl hadn't eaten for over 48hrs prior to whelping and as it was a large litter wanted her to have some energy.Had the calcium syrup on hand just in case, I used it three times, only when I thought the time between pups was too long. Does she eat the placentas? yep gobbled them down, I didn't let her eat them all, and she didn't want them all but think she had 4.....or 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) If your bitch is in good nick and you allow her to do what comes naturally and eat the placentas you are better off giving her nothing more than fresh water.When the dog is understress like during labour she needs her parathyroid hormone to cut in because the way calcium operates in the body is that it lays down calcium in the bones when things are easy and takes from it when things get rough .To do this the parathyroid hormone needs to cut in when she needs it but if you suppliment her body isnt used to the natural process and the parathyroid hormone doesnt cut in. Because of this giving her calcium supps orally is quite dangerous - its completely different to a calcium injection which goes straight to the blood stream and used if the bitch is showing signs of eclampsia because her body forgets how to go after its natural source to stabilize the calcium needed. Rather than increase contractions it helps nerves relax, and is very important in the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. The calcium level in the brain and spinal chord is kept constant no matter what is happening to the calcium levels in the rest of the body. If you give her nutrigel - Simple carbohydrates tamper with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach and the body needs the hydrochloric acid to fully metabolise the calcium. There is also other issues relating to how calcium needs other nutrients to assimilate and if you give too much of one without the other you can get a variety of problems. Trust the bitch - she knows whats best for her and just as at most when a human is in labour they suck on ice and dont get sweet vitamin pastes given to them or loads of calcium to help contractions the dog doesnt need it either especially as the enzymes and hormones + nutrients she needs are in the placentas which she eats during the whole process. thanks steve, explained well, and yes, eating the placenta is natural and helps the bitch immensley. This was the first time I used calcium and nutrigel, but obviously didn't need to. Edited December 5, 2010 by Bokezu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 If your bitch is in good nick and you allow her to do what comes naturally and eat the placentas you are better off giving her nothing more than fresh water.When the dog is understress like during labour she needs her parathyroid hormone to cut in because the way calcium operates in the body is that it lays down calcium in the bones when things are easy and takes from it when things get rough .To do this the parathyroid hormone needs to cut in when she needs it but if you suppliment her body isnt used to the natural process and the parathyroid hormone doesnt cut in. Because of this giving her calcium supps orally is quite dangerous - its completely different to a calcium injection which goes straight to the blood stream and used if the bitch is showing signs of eclampsia because her body forgets how to go after its natural source to stabilize the calcium needed. Rather than increase contractions it helps nerves relax, and is very important in the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. The calcium level in the brain and spinal chord is kept constant no matter what is happening to the calcium levels in the rest of the body. If you give her nutrigel - Simple carbohydrates tamper with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach and the body needs the hydrochloric acid to fully metabolise the calcium. There is also other issues relating to how calcium needs other nutrients to assimilate and if you give too much of one without the other you can get a variety of problems. Trust the bitch - she knows whats best for her and just as at most when a human is in labour they suck on ice and dont get sweet vitamin pastes given to them or loads of calcium to help contractions the dog doesnt need it either especially as the enzymes and hormones + nutrients she needs are in the placentas which she eats during the whole process. thanks steve, explained well, and yes, eating the placenta is natural and helps the bitch immensley. This was the first time I used calcium and nutrigel, but obviously didn't need to. As a modern breeder its really tempting to go with what we think will help but part of the problem is that the access we have to real studies which would help us to be sure we arent doing more harm than good is virtually non existent. We rely on word of mouth and we love our girls and want to do anything we can to help them and make the process go without a problem. Sometimes we are made to feel that the more we do and the more we interfere the better the breeder we are. That is debatable because at the end of the day we arent doing our dogs or our breeds any good if we set them up to where they cant do the whole show without us. I hear the argument that our litters are precious , that we work too hard and wait too long to get these beauties on the ground and we cant take any risks - but how do you know whether you are increasing the risks rather than decreasing them. So before we venture into doing things we think will help we need to carry that a step or two further and be sure that we get what we are aiming for and not a bigger pain in the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 thankyou Steve for yr explanation ,(it was a vet who told me to give calcium )!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottsup Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 This is an interesting debate........and more so for me at the moment as we have a litter due shortly. I totally agree with Steve on this however I will add what my repro specialist vet told me a couple of weeks ago (which is almost what Steve is saying anyway). He said the calcium is totally not nessasary BUT the sugar in the calcium suryp can help a bitch in the later stages of having a large litter to help give her a little more energy and works a bit quicker than giving a high carb feed as many bitches do not and will not feel like feeding at this point so the suryp is easy to administer to help with a little pick me up in those later stages. He also said (about Nutrigel) this is primarily used to help newborn pups suckle (if they are one of those difficult sucklers at first) put the tiniest droplet of Nutrigel onto the newborns tongue and watch the little one start sucking Just thought I would offer this info from our vet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks Steve for your informative post. Can you please link the research study? For my own interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks Steve for your informative post.Can you please link the research study? For my own interest. What research studies are you after? The ones about what happens with calcium when the bitch is under stress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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