Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[The Spotted Devil]

Meant to add there were 3 runs on Day 1 (3rd run co-judged), 3 runs on Day 2 (3rd run co-judged) and 2 runs (both co-judged) on Day 3. Sudden death - one out of order retrieve or if the judge decided you'd taken too long and you were out.

45 dogs started

31 dogs finished day 1

11 dogs finished day 2

4 dogs finished day 3 (and the trial).

Sorry for misunderstanding - Lani is related to one of FHRP's dogs.

Edited September 22, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[FHRP]

Well done TSD, what a lovely achievement. Well deserved, you've certainly put in the training :)

[FHRP]

and well done FHRP

:) Thanks but my only claim to fame is I have the litter brother of Lani :laugh:

[whitka]

I loved watching the labs and gsps work and I got to see a chessie for the first time. There were also a couple of flat coeated retrievers and tollers but didn't get to see them run. One of the judges there had one of the most gorgeous goldens I have ever seen

[The Spotted Devil]

Well done TSD, what a lovely achievement. Well deserved, you've certainly put in the training :)

Thanks FHRP. I'm even more inspired now :)

whitka - yes, only one each of the Flat Coated Retriever, Chessie and Toller running. And of course one little Springer! I think the rest were Labs (of various lines - US, UK, Ireland, Australian) with a smattering of GSPs and a few Goldens. Yes, that Golden belonging to the judge is a real sweetie pie as well as being a successful retrieving dog!

Edited September 24, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[The Spotted Devil]

To the runs that Em and I did - all marks very well sighted:

Day 1, Run 1: Walk up mark and double mark all across running water (even for Em!) with some moderate to heavy cover to deal with. Pick up order was last bird down (left hand mark), second bird down (right hand mark) and then first bird down (walk up mark). Em and I were super excited but I wasn't too nervous and made a big effort to smile, relax and enjoy the ride as I took the gun and two spare shells from the steward. The judge did a great job of putting me at ease as well. About half way to the firing point the walk up mark went up straight in front of us and at a fairly moderate distance. We are not particularly experienced with walk ups but Em stopped to shot nicely and I left her sitting and staring at the mark whilst I re-loaded. Walked to firing point, leave walk up mark, line up for right hand mark (long), close gun, fire at mark, reload, leave, line up for left hand mark (moving across the line of the walk up mark), close gun, fire, send. Em took off like a bullet across the water (the judge expected her to have to swim but she didn't), pulled slightly right of the mark to end up in very heavy cover (like many dogs) and struggled to push through it. She was a little uncertain so I decided to play it safe, one whistle, one left hand back and she took off again, tackled the cover, quickly appeared with the game and came flying back. I think everyone saw me pump the air with delight at getting that first one out of the way :laugh: Delivery was absolutely beautiful and remained so all weekend so I think we've got that particular issue licked. She flipped into heel position, lined her up for the second bird down and sent her. She took the most perfect line to the mark, stopped right in the area of the fall (moderate cover) and was just a bit unlucky to be hunting on the wrong side of the wind. She ended up down wind (right of the mark) so I stopped her and cast back - that gave her the confidence boost she needed to get back in the area. She worked the wind beautifully, hunted up the retrieve very efficiently and came flying back. Lined her up for the walk up mark and I could tell by her body language that she knew exactly what she was doing. A number of dogs had trouble with this one but Em flew straight out, slightly to the right which meant she had to tackle heavy cover so she disappeared from view but she quickly appeared with the bird and came straight back. Never have I enjoyed those flapping ears so much - in fact, I told the judge I was going to kiss him :D Walked back to the pegs, handed over the 3 retrieves, the gun and the empty shells, put her lead on and whooped and danced with pure joy. I think the gallery enjoyed it, particularly when I laughingly told them that "I think we've won"

Day 1, Run 2: Fire at the blind, 2 seconds before the long mark goes up (to the left of the blind and across water, landing in light cover), get the blind (tucked behind a bush on a little island), fire at the two bird as the dog is coming back with the blind retrieve (to the right of the blind and landing behind trees and in water), get the two bird, get the long memory mark. Again all across running water. Deep breath, big smile and double checked the run with the judge as the competitor before me picked up the marks in the reverse order and was thus DQ'd By this time I'd started thinking more about what we call "ringcraft" in obedience. Swapped Em's lead for the gun and two spare shells. Walked to the firing pegs, lined Em up for the mark so that once I'd fired at the blind straight in front of us, it didn't take long to get her focussing forward for the mark. She saw that really well and I let her sit there facing it whilst I reloaded both shells. Leave. Lined her up for the blind. Swim, blind, back! Whilst she didn't take the best line off my leg (lack of experience for both of us) she ran hard and straight but a bit far to the left of the blind. I probably could have stopped her a bit earlier but I really want to encourage that forward momentum so I let her run on a bit. Plus she wasn't veering towards the mark so I decided to cop the points hit. She stopped and I cast right. With all the running back hard that I've been trying to instil in her, the right and left overs have really weakened and she took off like a shot backwards. Stopped her again, called her in a bit, stopped her again, let her sit and think about life for a bit and then cast her right. That worked but she was a bit uncertain - I could tell by how her speed halved. Stopped her again and cast right back so she would run in the water straight past the little island. She turned on the left side but took THE BEST LINE back and at breakneck speed. I was about to stop her as she ran past the island but her nose must have been working hard - she put the brakes on, dived into the bushes, appeared with the retrieve and came flying back. Fortunately I remembered that the two bird was going up so closed the gun and fired as it did so. Em didn't stop but I was pretty sure she'd had a good look out of the corner of her eye. As soon as she delivered, she flipped herself into heel position and it just required an "ok" from me to send her. The set up meant that she disappeared from sight very quickly but I was very confident she knew what she was about. I think, being a young dog that hasn't been handled much on marks (as is common in AA), she really trusts herself and found this to be very easy. Delivered that one, lined her up for the long memory mark (quite a lot had happened since she saw it!) and, again, her body language told me that she was super confident. I took some time lining her up though and she trusted me enough to take that line which I was very pleased about - she ran hard through the water, very slight banana bend in her line meant she stopped very slightly to the right but at the exact distance (which means she is judging depth really well) and hunted it up without a command. I was just about in shock by this stage as Em just made it feel so easy! I was so pleased with that run.

Day 1, Run 3: Fire at long mark (across water) from first set of firing pegs, leave dog in a stay, walk to second set of firing pegs to left, fire at blind (across water on edge of creek), reload, call dog, fire at the diversionary mark at a very tight angle to the right of the blind and in heavy cover (had to treat it as a 'proper' mark otherwise we were to be pinged badly), send for blind, take delivery at first set of firing pegs, send for long mark. Diversionary bird not to be picked up. It was getting late in the day, my head was absolutely pounding and the weather was turning miserable so not the best set of circumstances for clear thinking! Got to the second set of firing pegs without a hitch, called Em up but do you think I could get her to look at the diversionary mark? Little nightmare head was very distracted by something to the right (swallows perhaps?) - I was late firing at the diversionary mark. Leave. Lined her up for the blind - swim....and she was just so excited she leapt off before I sent her! Fortunately she pulled herself up very quickly and came back to heel but I was kind of chuffed at how keen she was. Sent her for the blind and she took a flying leap into the creek (unusual for her when entering novel water) and actually went under :laugh: She started to pull towards the mark (it turns out she knew damn well where it was!) so I stopped her and cast left over. Similar to before, she took that as a left back and took off into the heavy cover towards the mark. I stopped her again, called her in, stopped her and cast left over. Nup, back she went again. It was at this point I made a decision - I could try stopping again and again but I knew how weak the overs had become and didn't want to risk being called in by the judges as I needed her to feel as though she'd had success and finish on a high. As she disappeared into the heavy cover, I thought she was the right side of the wind to pick up the scent of the blind and I really didn't think she had seen the mark (nor did the gallery). Of course, the next second she appears SPRINGING through the cover with the diversionary bird and SO proud of herself :laugh: I had to smile as she threw herself into the water and delivered to hand beautifully. I told her she was perfect (SHE thought she had done the right thing) and walked back to the judges saying that they had to admit she was a good little marking dog :D The gallery was just lovely and I celebrated with Em as per usual - one or two people commented that they'd never seen anyone so happy after going out :laugh: I wish we'd had a chance at that long mark though - it was right up her alley in all that heavy cover!!!

So! I retreated to my tent as soon as we got back to camp, dosed myself up with painkillers and there I stayed pretty much until Sunday. Pushing through the headache on Thursday and Friday did not do my body any favours but it was SO worth it. Back to Restricted we go but, at least now, I'm not worried about the step up into AA. There are some things she will excel at and others we need to do lots of work on but that's life. And dog training. Oh and I think Lablover has some video of our runs so will post that if we can work through the technology of getting it off her computer!!!

And congratulations if you read this far!

Edited September 24, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[The Spotted Devil]

A couple of pics from the Nationals...

Em coming back with the 2 bird in the 2nd run...

http://s904.photobucket.com/user/flatcoat2/media/DSC02406_zps0403304d.jpg.html?sort=6&o=37

Returning to the starting pegs with gun, game and a super happy Springer...

http://s904.photobucket.com/user/flatcoat2/media/DSC02414_zpsb4711820.jpg.html?sort=6&o=36

[The Spotted Devil]

Life has been a bit hectic lately - what with work, Uni, agility training/trialling and a very sick little cat to care for in the last week - so I've just been squeezing in some retrieving training where I can.

Selection seems to be improving - have just been throwing 3 dummies on our bush block and mixing up the pickup order.

Yesterday I had planned to spend a whole day out training with a friend but my little cat took priority. By the afternoon she was looking a little better (and eating - yay!) so Mr TSD offered to throw dummies for Em. Which was just as well as she has been shredding paperwork all week - agility and running hard on the block barely takes the edge off. Started with a moderate warm blind channel swim with a very short easy memory mark to test selection. That all was really good - she handled well, eyed off the local birdlife but held her line. A couple of long walking singles with trees/hill blocking part of her view and I was happy with those. Then a couple of marks on top of a hill requiring her to cross paths and vegetation. Lines up the hill were really good - the first one I don't think she saw at all (I suspect sun glare) but she hunted like mad, used Mr TSD as a reference point and then handled really well when I realised she had no idea where it was. Second was much better. Next one we did a double across water. Short memory mark landing to the left. Last mark down was up on the hill and landing behind some trees. She tackled the water without hesitation and picked up the first mark very quickly. I was a bit concerned about a roaming dog so wasn't concentrating and didn't line her up for the memory mark at all well - she took the line I gave her (duh!) so I had to handle her to the memory mark but that was cool. Need to do more work on overs but they seem to have improved quite a bit without my help!

If the hail looks like staying away I might try to get out with her a bit later. Think some 2 birds and double falls might be the go seeing as Mr TSD will be around.

[CaseyKay]

Interesting thread :) my husband has recently began competing with his french brittany girl "Scout" in New Zealand in Pointer/Setter (no HPR tests here) and novice retriever. The former is going better than the latter. Interesting to read about the different breeds, here the most common breed would be the working ESS, in our region anyway. Obviously in spaniel trials but also in the novice retriever trials and all breed retriever. After that Labs and Goldies and then aside from the various pointer/setter/HPR breeds there isn't a lot of diversity but the NZ champs are on over labour weekend so hoping to see some different breeds there. Pleased last weekend that at her 2nd pointer setter trial Scout finished the course and got 3rd place on pretty good points. Her first trial she found out of order. Last weekend was also her first retriever trial, she got overexcited waiting her turn while others ran, and did not wait for judges command to "Send your dog" but wasn't the only one!

We also have NZ Versatile Hunting Dog Test Association, natural ability test and intermediate test for the continental HPR breeds. NAT for dogs 6-16 months and Int for 16 to 16 months. This is very similar to the tests in North America. Scout was run in this in April 2013 at 15 months and achieved Prize 1. The first Brittany in NZ to do so :) but only 3 of the correct age have run, her grandmother got Prize 3. The most common breeds by far to have run in NAT are GWP and GSP. I worked out of the correctly aged dogs run (people can run older dogs but can't get a Prize grading) 43% achieve Prize 3, 2, or 1 and 15% Prize 1 in natural ability test. It is judged on searching/nose/pointing/attitude/co-operation/tracking/water and gunshot (can't Prize if any signs of gunshyness). It is judged by 3 judges who all agree on each catagory from 0 to 4. I really enjoyed watching this. The intermediate test has a lot more retrieving in it and Scout won't run in upcoming spring test, we will wait until next Autumn one. But we are interested to go and spectate at the next test in a month just to learn more.

He also uses her for hunting (rabbits year round and birds in season) which is his main hobby.

The girl waiting her turn to run pointer/setter trial last weekend:

[The Spotted Devil]

Welcome CaseyKay! Great to hear about the NZ trialling scene :) Scout sounds like she's coming along beautifully!

We had our first weekend out competing since the Nationals with not a lot of training. On Saturday the first run was a double mark with handler in a gully so we couldn't see our dogs once they went over the ridgeline. Em picked up the 2nd bird down easily and I sent her for the 1st bird down. I'm not sure how she went as I couldn't see her but she took forever! Finally the judge said "call your dog" and kept repeating it. I must have whistled her 15 times It turns out she picked up the bird ok but the wing was covering her eyes. She was trying to find me and nearly ended up at the cars. The wind was strong and swirly and everytime I whistled she would spring, spring, spring trying to pinpoint the sound. Eventually she found me but I don't think we were penalised too badly. In the 2nd run I managed to turn a mark and a blind into a double blind but Em handled really well to pick up what was essentially a long-ish run/swim down a channel. Of course we were severely pinged for handling on a mark but she then pulled off an awesome double rise in the final run to pick up 3rd place! The judge made a special mention of her 3rd run at presentations - she ran it exactly as he would have wished :) It was her first double rise on a trial and I just stood there whilst she did all the work!

Today Em was super consistent and came 1st for her efforts :) The first run was a long-ish mark over a small crest and a two bird. She nailed the mark, watched the two bird go up and fetched it up with a bit of hunting but no commands. Top scored this run. The second run was a walk up mark and a blind with lots of things for the handler to remember... leave dog in hide behind fallen tree, fire at blind, reload, call dog, close gun, walk up mark, send, move to pegs, take delivery, send for blind. Em did all this pretty smoothly although she did put her cute Spaniel head over the tree with her paws up - cheeky girl didn't leave the area though! On the blind, I stopped her, called her in a bit, stopped her, cast left back and she got it. Third run was a double mark. Memory mark was across the river and go to bird was in the middle of a paddock with not much for the dogs to get their bearings. She picked up both without a command but had to hunt a bit more on the memory mark.

All in all I was very pleased. Work between the pegs, selection and handling were great except where she was let down by her handler. Memory marks have dropped off a bit with the lack of training but they weren't too bad. She had so much fun and wagged enough to power a small country town :D

Edited October 22, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[rubyroo]

Just saw the results TSD!! Congratulations on your win

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks rubyroo!

Here's a pic of the girl with her prizes from both days...

[The Spotted Devil]

The Springer Devil won Restricted today for her RRD title :) She did some nice work for 170 points. No AA tomorrow so we'll be running non competing. A wine or two tonight methinks :D

[RubyStar]

Congrats TSD and the awesome Em

I can't believe you guys are still trialling into November

[whitka]

Congrats SD and Em Doesn't she look proud with her winnings :D

RS its still cold in Vic

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes, it was cold and windy although enough sun to burn my nose and bring out a few black snakes

I was so pleased with Em yesterday as well - running non-competing on some tough retrieves, I treated it as a training run (so a few extra verbal cues) and she was within half a point of the winning dog. I'll get to the runs when I have time but here's a fun pic of Em after I let her roll in the dirt as a reward for a super double mark in water....

[The Spotted Devil]

So, the runs...

Saturday:

Run 1: An "eye opener" as the judge put it.....a double mark in short to moderate cover. The first (shorter) mark landed left to right beyond a track and I understand that threw a few dogs. The second (long) mark was fairly straightforward, right to left. Pick up the last bird down first. Em nailed both marks - I thought she had misjudged the memory mark but it turns out the wind had picked it up and it didn't land as far out as I expected. She clearly knew where it was as she pulled up right on top of it. Very pleased with this run.

Run 2: A few delays here as the wind was playing havoc with the marks. Long-ish mark landing behind some small scrubby bushes and a 2 bird on the way back. Em saw the long mark well and quickly disappeared into the scrub. I couldn't see her but she was quick to reappear again with the bird so I assume she marked it well. The 2 bird went up, I fired and I could have sworn Em didn't see it. However, I took delivery of the first bird, lined her up for the 2 bird and the little devil knew exactly where it was! She used to sit when I fired at the 2 bird but it now appears she uses her peripheral vision as she didn't even turn her head. Another good run.

Run 3: Fairly simple in water retrieve and a blind up on the hill. Heel to the tree/post. Leave dog. Walk up to blind firing point. Fire at blind. Relocate to mark firing point (close to dog). Call dog to heel. Fire at mark. Send for mark. Take delivery. Relocate to blind firing point and send for blind. Water mark was smooth and it was nice not to be picking prickles and grass seeds out of her after the run! She took a nice line to the blind and then started pulling to the right (following contours and tracks probably). I stopped her and cast left back and I swear she ran straight over the top of the blind - it was stuck in a ditch so difficult to scent. She is still quick and I am slow so it took me a few handles to get her back to it. She really wanted to keep running! Not too bad but room for improvement.

170 points, 1st place and RRD title.

Sunday:

Ran non-competing (for those who aren't aware, once you have your 3rd win you must go up to the next stake or run non-competing. There was no All Age trial so I had no choice).

Run 1: Heel dog to firing point. Fire 2 shots at the mark. Send dog. Relocate to 2nd firing point (closer to starting pegs). Take delivery and send for double rise. Now, the mark was thrown from left to right high up on a hill. Em was lined up and focussed but I suspect her small stature meant she was staring straight at the hill rather than at it's peak - based on her run, there is no way she saw the mark. She lined off my leg at a bit of an odd angle (at which point I knew she hadn't seen it) but used her head and her nose and picked up the mark relatively quickly. Sent her back for the double rise and that was much easier for her.

Run 2: This was held on the same water as Run 3 from Saturday AND the next run - which is very difficult because dogs have such good memories for that sort of thing! We were right down at the water's edge. Double mark - short mark coming right at us followed by long mark, which was essentially a long channel swim. The body of water was very wide. We could pick up in any order. Whilst everyone wanted the long (last) mark down first it was very hard for the dogs as they had to swim very close to the short mark - super, super tempting especially for relatively inexperienced dogs. Some handlers elected the short mark first but it made the long mark much tougher as it was landing in lots of water lilies and weeds. I decided it was essentially a training opportunity so decided to test Em on the long mark first. I took my time before sending her - made sure she was confident about which bird I wanted - she took a super, confident line towards the last bird down but as she swam past the first mark it was just too tempting! Whistle stop. Leave. Cast left back. She took that nicely but then spun onto the tempting mark again. Whistle stop. Leave. Cast left over. She took that beautifully and I thought I was going to have to send her back again before she reached the shoreline but she got the message, adjusted her line and swam furiously towards the long mark. I called out "good girl!" when she picked it up just to reinforce the message. The whole swim back she was glancing at the memory mark so that was an absolute doddle. Absolutely thrilled to bits with this difficult run.

Run 3: As mentioned, held on the same body of water so a tough ask. The firing pegs were on top of the steep incline down to the water. Double blind, both across water so 2 big swims. Heel dog to tree. Leave dog. Walk to firing point. Fire at blind across water. Reload. Call dog. Send for blind. As dog reaches the lily pads (about half way) fire at second blind. Em desperately wanted to do another channel swim, bless her, so it took several backs to keep her moving across to the other side. She got out of the water and was about to start hunting so I stopped her and cast back. She took that beautifully, ran hard and spied the bird without another command. She powered back to me and I lined her up for the 2nd blind which was located to the right but out on a point. A couple of handles to keep her on line and in the water (rather than hitting the land and running across) and she picked that one up fairly easily. Another powerful swim back, delivered to hand and she was most disappointed when I didn't send her for another one. I had to call her away from the firing pegs as she was sitting there wagging her tail furiously in anticipation of another one.

Not sure how closely we were judged as we were non-competing but the judge said we were within half a point of the winning dog. I was absolutely delighted with her effort to be honest as they were tough runs. She was just so keen and so willing at every step, not to mention heaps of fun :D

[fetchindawgs]

Congratulations TSD and Em. You have had a great year of growth and learnt a lot I should think. Look forward to seeing that wildchild of yours in All Age next year, or at least hear about how you go.

Yes, Rubystar, the Vics start their trials earlier than us (January) and finish later. But, they don't have too many trials mid year. I still think they have the best of everything in regards trials, as Vics can travel to NSW, S.A., ACT and Tassie, all very easily, whereas we have 3 days of driving just to get to the WA/SA border, or fly and boy is that expensive when taking dogs.

Edited November 12, 2013 by fetchindawgs

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks fetchin' :) It has been a huge learning curve for the wildchild and me alright! I will miss Restricted but am looking forward to the challenges of AA.

[BlackJaq]

So I've finally recommenced working on our retrieving and there is now some video! Could somebody (perhapps TSD :D ) have a look and give us some hints on how to improve this? This is our third or fourth time working in the water and to be honest, Foxy took a long time to get over her reluctance to swim on her own without another dog to "hold her hand"....

We have also recently started working with ducks and I was hoping to attach some wings to one of the dummies shortly and perhaps be ready for actual freshly shot ducks at the end of the year...

Work on land is also progressing and we have begun working with rabbits (the cold variety atm).

Anyway, here are two water videos, first one is the first exercises that day, all a bit slow and sluggish, then I took a break for play time, then a little later, dog still a little more revved up, I made the second video and then finished. I realize it was a bit of a long sesh but I wanted to video all of it to help get some feedback, normally I would stop about three quarters into the first video (so about 5 mins or so, less if the dog works exceptionally well)

Edit: Arghhhh how do I embed a video on this forum?? hmm here are the links until I can figure that out anyway:

Edited November 28, 2013 by BlackJaq