Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[The Spotted Devil]

I want video

[The Spotted Devil]

I upload to You Tube, or you can use something like Vimeo.

[The Spotted Devil]

I think you're doing a great job of extending the line in water and building confidence. Delivery to hand is great! What I would probably do:

• Get a lot more excited when throwing the dummy - make sure she is looking forward to where you are throwing the dummy. Leave her in a sit, walk to the water - call out "hey, hey, hey!" and swing the dummy around to get her attention.
  
• Release her to the retrieve more quickly - you can go back to holding her a bit longer later but work on building motivation at the moment
  
• Get super excited when she picks up the dummy - whoo hoo! Good girl! Yay!
  
• Use "happy bumpers" on land to reward a water retrieve - that will help motivation and when she delivers to hand after that you can reward with food.
  
• Don't throw more than 2 dummies in the same spot unless she's having real trouble as it encourages them to return to the old fall - if you're doing a drill you can have a pile but that is separate from building motivation.
  
• I understand that you wanted to get everything on video, but I would do 3 retrieves (extending the line) and then stop. Work on one thing at a time i.e. don't add doubles if you are trying to work on motivation in the water. Always get something right on land before trying it in water.
  
• When you are lining her up to send be less vague about which direction you want her to go....this is a very early video of Em but look how I line her up for a retrieve - body straight, head straight - fetch!
  

I hope that helps!

Edited November 29, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[Lablover]

Few suggestions

1. If it all possible have a human thrower concentrate on land before water....or if you like to include water do a few retrieves on land first especially with a weii, a bred who feels the cold. A warmmed up dog., has a better chance to think of water as a positive. Use a vest when water is not warm.

2. Having a human thrower with some spare dummies, can keep throwing after the dog as been sent. The bumper or other retrieving articles must be easy to find...football field or other with no cover.

3. Do not start doubles until handling skills are taught.

4. Have fun...always be aware of attitude, focus and drive.

[Lablover]

Couple more thoughts.

I would concentrate on easier water retrieves. If you have access to splashy water not just deep swimming watee.

Tease the dog big time before retrieving...try nit to stop or pause sequence...not too muc obedience.

Mind you nice dam..easily checked for any snakes.

[BlackJaq]

Ok thank You guys! I will try and work on each of these things in turn lol

We have been working on land (a lot) but since the last few days have just been so hot we decided to tackle some water! I will remember to use the soccer fields in town for some plain view practice (since flat, clear land is kinda in short supply at home ) and will try to build more drive/excitement.

I definitely know she has it in her since she turns into a little torpedo (or rocket, on land) when retrieving under the gun lol Interest in dummies has waned (a lot) since introduction to real game haha

[BlackJaq]

Here is the second lesson with a duck lol

[Tapua]

I am going to have to work out what how to use a video thingy to show you what I am about to rabbit on about. But this is the story. I have a 6 month old black Lab called Kupa - he is staying - he will be the furture stud for our kennel so I am putting in time getting him used to a bit of this and a bit of that. There are no problems as such I need however to work out a game plan for training and my priorities.

So I showed him in 6 shows as a baby puppy with an attutude on my part of lets just use this as socialising, so he went well and won 5 baby in groups and 1 baby in show - so goodo he is not an ugly dog so I will enter Sydney Royal among other shows and get his title next year ... eventually. So I tick the pretty dog box with him.

Then concurrently he has been trained to retrieve a ball and to retrieve under gunfire / starter pistol he is keen entusiastic and very fast and very reliable : tick that box - and I am just a bit excited.

Then on Tuesday this week I try to mold the retrieval so he only retrieves to the front in the sit position. So he learnt to hold and return with the item in his gob waiting for me to take it. Tick that box.

Now this is my issue - I think I have a really talented dog .... Not Me the dog is talented and I dont want to stuff it up so where to from here. Do I focus on obedience - which I am experience in and go through the CCD/CD/CDX etc process or focus on RATG - which I know didly about. I think I have pleanty of time to do both but given he is a baby what things do I need to cement young to tranfer to RATG and onward. At this point in time if I offered him a dead bird he would unhesitatingly eat it - so Im not goiing there. Its very exciting having a talented dog - or I think he is anyway. What would you guys do in my poition. I also have 2 - 4 month old bitches that are potentially just as good!!!

Edited December 15, 2013 by Tapua

[BlackJaq]

Don't know anything about Labs or RATG sorry

If you are interested in getting him retrieving real game for you, maybe "Working Gun Dogs" by Martin Deeley might be helpful. He trains a lot of Spaniels and Labs in the UK and his book is pretty detailed (he might have written more, not sure, I only have the one)

I'm sure TSD will be able to tell you about RATG and stuff. but I don't see why the dog can't learn field work as well as obedience? He will need obedience to work anyway (including heel work, stay eyc)

[The Spotted Devil]

Glad to hear you are interested in retrieving Tapua - nothing wrong with obedience work for a retrieving dog but if you are keen I would catch up with some knowledgeable folk for some tips. Just too much to explain over the internet although there is a lot of info in this thread including how I started Em as a puppy. Ball throwing is not recommended for a potential retrieving dog as it's a completely different concept to marking the fall of the game. You need to introduce young dogs to cover, marking and water retrieves CORRECTLY - delivery to hand is great but is probably the easiest to teach from an obedience perspective. There was a thread on this forum about training classes in NSW - you might need to do a quick search. RATG novice is on dummies but they are starting to run open on game in VIC. I have seen many a dog come undone in Beginners/Novice retrieving trials that did well in RATG as the cover/distance/marking concepts tend to be more demanding. Have fun and let us know how you progress!

Edited December 16, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[The Spotted Devil]

Em and I have had a break since the last trial...concentrating on thesis writing and agility! She has been missing retrieving though and went super crazy excited when I did a couple of short drills on Saturday. Sunday we found a long body of splash/swim water and ran it as a hot blind up the middle. She was really good. Then I added hand thrown game landing next to the water about half way up the channel. Took 2 stops and handles to get her back onto the dummy blind so didn't let her pick up the mark. Ran it again and she didn't need a whistle....although she did overcompensate and veered left to avoid the mark. Worked on some angle entries and then gave the dogs a HUGE swim across the dam purely for fun and fitness. She was a very happy little Springer and would happily have trained some more but I left it at that.

[fetchindawgs]

I am going to have to work out what how to use a video thingy to show you what I am about to rabbit on about. But this is the story. I have a 6 month old black Lab called Kupa - he is staying - he will be the furture stud for our kennel so I am putting in time getting him used to a bit of this and a bit of that. There are no problems as such I need however to work out a game plan for training and my priorities.

So I showed him in 6 shows as a baby puppy with an attutude on my part of lets just use this as socialising, so he went well and won 5 baby in groups and 1 baby in show - so goodo he is not an ugly dog so I will enter Sydney Royal among other shows and get his title next year ... eventually. So I tick the pretty dog box with him.

Then concurrently he has been trained to retrieve a ball and to retrieve under gunfire / starter pistol he is keen entusiastic and very fast and very reliable : tick that box - and I am just a bit excited.

Then on Tuesday this week I try to mold the retrieval so he only retrieves to the front in the sit position. So he learnt to hold and return with the item in his gob waiting for me to take it. Tick that box.

Now this is my issue - I think I have a really talented dog .... Not Me the dog is talented and I dont want to stuff it up so where to from here. Do I focus on obedience - which I am experience in and go through the CCD/CD/CDX etc process or focus on RATG - which I know didly about. I think I have pleanty of time to do both but given he is a baby what things do I need to cement young to tranfer to RATG and onward. At this point in time if I offered him a dead bird he would unhesitatingly eat it - so Im not goiing there. Its very exciting having a talented dog - or I think he is anyway. What would you guys do in my poition. I also have 2 - 4 month old bitches that are potentially just as good!!!

I would recommend getting rid of the ball completely, and any squeaky play toys that encourage the pup to squeeze with his mouth. Either make yourself a couple of dummies, or buy some if you can source them. Just the 2 inch dummy at this stage. Do not give your pup a bird !!! You would be asking for trouble, and as you say in your post, he would eat one.

You can keep up the little bits of obedience, interspersed with some happy retrieves. Remember it must be fun all of the time for your pup, as you want him to rush out to get the dummy, and also be just as eager to return to you with it and give it up to you calmly. As TSD says, introduce your pup to little retrieves in different terrain (as safely as you can). For example, over a small log; into tall grass ; amongst bushes ; into a puddle of water ; then into a pond a few feet and gradually increase the distance into the water. Just as important as having your pup retrieve with enthusiasm, is having him come back to you. There have been some articles written on these training subjects which you could see on Retrievers Australia or even google for it.

The main problem I have seen with dogs doing Novice RATG is lack of steadiness for the thrown dummy. It is only at around 50 metres, but young inexperienced dogs often break and this is instant fail. So, later on in the piece you can work on the steadiness and also focusing out in the field to watch for a mark. Don't rush it and be prepared to take steps backward. As your pup progresses you can put some pigeon wings on the dummy to get the pup used to the feel of feathers. Asking him to hold, then give several times should ensure that he understands it is a retrieve article and does not belong to him. Hope this helps in some way.

[Tapua]

Thanks Guys I appreciate all your advice - it gives me insight into the conditioning needed for a good gun-dog. I guess I need to put my hand up and say ball work is essential in what I do, I breed and condition Labs for the ADF and a strong and frenetic retrieve is highly desirable. I think I will mould the boy towards obedience - he has a hard mouth now and I think I have buggered him for anything beyond novice RATG though I might have a go. He is steady on a stay as long as I don't have anything in my hand :). Always good to check what is the best direction to take. Since the boy is staying for stud purposes I need to re-direct his drive, I know what I am doing with conventional obedience where as I am not experienced with Retrieval. He is a fun dog to work :) Thanks again.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Tapua

[BlackJaq]

So how do you best get into RATG and field trials? I have been googling a little and results for RATG are very unsatisfying.. I am in NSW but would be grateful for any kind of useful link? Are there any training clubs foe field trials and retrieving?

[Staff'n'Toller]

So how do you best get into RATG and field trials? I have been googling a little and results for RATG are very unsatisfying.. I am in NSW but would be grateful for any kind of useful link? Are there any training clubs foe field trials and retrieving?

The Wei Club in Vic seem very into it (RATG), so try the club in NSW.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Staff'n'Toller

[BlackJaq]

Good idea thank You! I've been meaning to join them for a while, this could be the push I needed to finally pull my finger out :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

So how do you best get into RATG and field trials? I have been googling a little and results for RATG are very unsatisfying.. I am in NSW but would be grateful for any kind of useful link? Are there any training clubs foe field trials and retrieving?

Do you want to do RATG or retrieving BJ? You will find that a lot of retrieving folk won't have much to do with RATG as it's not challenging enough for them. However some will start their youngsters in RATG especially if they're trying to balance it with another dog sport eg obedience, showing, tracking etc. Retrieving and field work do require a lot of commitment - not only to train but to compete in.

Send a PM to DOLer FHRP re field and retrieving and she should be able to put you in touch with someone. Also have a look at AWRC website for who is running training days - I cross posted something about NSW in the last few months in this forum. You will find it easier to find a training partner rather than rely on clubs in general as it's not always the sort of thing you can teach to a large class except at the very basic level. There are a couple of Weis running in Vic - if you have no luck with the NSW club get in touch with Vic as I'm sure they will have contacts. Hope that helps :)

ETA: If you're really stuck re the RATG let me know and I'll shoot a message to a LH Wei person who should be able to help. Wait until after the Silly Season though as I will forget!

Edited December 22, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[BlackJaq]

Thanks!

[The Spotted Devil]

Em came in season on Christmas Day (!) so she has gone particularly feral - energy levels and hunt have gone through the roof but fortunately she is super enthusiastic to train so I can manage her and Zig quite well. The last few days I've started concentrating on lining her straight with distracting dummies to push her head off line. Last night she was woeful but this morning it's clicked. I will start making it harder then take it to water to work on angle entries. Did some hand thrown triples down the steep front block to work on selection....and hopefully to tire her out.

[The Spotted Devil]

And tonight average. I blame the hormones. Hers that is.

Edited December 28, 2013 by The Spotted Devil