Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[fetchindawgs]

I can see where RS is going about the length of training, and number of concepts, TSD. You describe a total of 12 pickups for Em, and even though you said it is over a whole day, that is far more than you would get in a trial, and for me, certainly far more than I would ever do with any of my dogs, but, having at least three dogs with me at each training session, plus my training partner's dogs, there just isn't the time to put on that number of retrieves.

I have no doubt that my dogs would be keen enough to do as many retrieves as I ask as they all have tremendous drive, but usually our absolute limit is around 6 retrieves in a session, dependant on the weather conditions.

RS, it doesn't matter if you only do one retrieve, or concept. Work on Ruby doing it well, and finish. Be careful not to overdo the doublerise practise though, as this can be detrimental to your double mark work. Also, break up the actual work with heaps of fun throws of either a dummy or a toy, to keep her fresh and raring to go.

[RubyStar]

RS, it doesn't matter if you only do one retrieve, or concept. Work on Ruby doing it well, and finish. Be careful not to overdo the doublerise practise though, as this can be detrimental to your double mark work. Also, break up the actual work with heaps of fun throws of either a dummy or a toy, to keep her fresh and raring to go.

Thanks, I will try and remember this and put it into practice :)

Appreciate everyone's advice

[rubyroo]

Wow you have all had a wonderful weekend. RV the photos are great, I would love to do some field work with my boy eventually, but I have no idea. Will get the retrieving down pat first. Sounded like a hot day, do you have many snakes where you train, it is a real problem here I'm paranoid until its below 18 degrees. It's nice having the more experienced dog there so they can learn. Don't get too disappointed we all have to start somewhere you can see her improving so that's a good thing, don't give up u r doing good things.

Great score RS. We are sill having problems dropping dummies and birds. Not sure how to fix the bird one. I am so hung up on hard mouth from my old boy I'm not giving rocket a chance and starting to put too much pressure on him. We trialled this weekend and on one of the runs yesterday he set the bird out after I told him to fetch he picked it up and wouldn't come to me. He was a little nervous and I'm paranoid. He is starting to roll and play with the birds which is not acceptable but I'm not sure how to fix without pressure? TSD how did you work on deliveries? Apart from that he managed to place 2nd on sat and we finished on Sunday, not sure of platings as I didn't stay for presentation. His marking was pretty off on Sunday which is a first he usually nails it. I've been really impressed with his marking.

TSD it really impresses me how much of an understanding of concepts you have. I keep watching DVDs and still don't understand it, I really get a lot from your posts, and enjoy them thoroughly, thankyou.

[The Spotted Devil]

RS - fetchin put it better than I did. Quality over quantity every time. Yes, we had a busy session yesterday but it was about building confidence back up with Em - the more she got right (they were set up so she could get them right as much as possible), the more her enthusiasm went through the roof. If she was fading mentally (which she certainly does - it's just an ear position thing but I can pick it a mile off) I would have pulled the pin earlier.

rubyroo - thank you but I don't know half of what I should and always feel like I stuff things up. I am lucky to have good people around me to bounce ideas off and structure my training. Had a chat with a very well known retrieving stalwart at the Easter trial - we were camped next to each other - and was telling him about Em's WOEFUL marking :laugh: He asked what I had been training and then said something that really, really stuck with me (and stopped making me feel so bad!) - he explained that with all the lining and blind work I'd done (which she's really learnt to love as much as marking) that she'd finally got the whole concept of running in a straight line and that's where she was looking at the start pegs. Instead of looking UP for the mark she was looking DOWN into the cover, looking for that line she was going to run - great for a blind but not much bloody good in Novice. When he put it like that everything fell into place - the fact that she wasn't head swinging but still wasn't marking well, and the lovely lines she took and the overrunning! He was so nice and told me that everyone falls into the same trap - and to just go home, do 3 days of marking only and then alternate marking and handling every session. And to keep them much more separate than I have been doing. Anyway - think I will need more marking practice than I will have time for before the next trial but will just do what we can. Can't fix everything at once!

Regarding the delivery, I shape it and my criteria is very tight in training - similar to obedience (sit straight in front, hold the item in the middle, no mouthing, look me in the eye, no "spitting") - when it does break down (training or a trial) it is quite easy to then go back to that foundation work. Keep it very light though - I laugh and say "gotcha!" when they muck up - helps keep my voice light and fun because neither of mine respond well to that sort of pressure. The hardest thing is to generalise it - we were doing a lot of work on frozen game and dummies and her deliveries were perfect. Brought out fresh, soft game which she hadn't seen for about 6 months and she put it on the ground and wagged her tail uneasily - went back to the drawing board for a few days and she was fine. That's the thing with a young dog though - concentrate on one thing and you neglect something else!!! (Although apparently it's because I let her sleep on my bed :D ) I think because I've built value for deliveries she sprints back nearly as hard as she goes out. If you're having trouble my first suggestion would be to shape the retrieve with completely different items - no dummies or game - but every household item you can think of including pens, rulers, metal, wood, plastic......etc I just sit in a lounge chair and use their dinner to work on it. Keep it fun and have them absolutely busting to grab the item in the middle (no matter what angle you hold it at) and rush into a lovely sit. No spitting from them and no snatching from you though! Hands under the mouth, touch the item but they don't give it up until you say "give". Have fun :)

Edited April 15, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[fetchindawgs]

Ah yes TSD, didn't anyone tell you that when you start your blind work and putting more control on your dog, that it is usually a given that the marking ability drops off. I have had it with all my dogs, and as you say it is creating a balance between how often you do both concepts. As the trialer at Easter said to you, go home and just do lots of single marks. This is something to remember the whole life of trialing Em. I do it with my AA dogs.

To Rubyroo, that must be so frustrating for you, but I assure you there are many people who have been through the same scenario with their dog. As you suspect, it has to come back to training, and building the fetch, hold, give sequence. TSD has given you some good tasks to follow, so give that a go. All dogs are different and you may have to alter something to suit your dog, but you know him better than anyone.

Personally, I start from puppyhood with the fetch, and huge praise and lots of fun on the return. No pressure to deliver. It just has to be as much fun getting the item as bringing it back is. Later on, if there is a problem (and I have had them), I will do a stationary fetch, hold and give with the dog right in front of me. I can go into more detail when I have more time...............off training now....

[The Spotted Devil]

But that's the embarrassing thing fetchin' I'm sure they did :laugh: But you know how much information there is to absorb, some of it just gets filed away for later.....I just failed to retrieve it Plus I never thought we'd be training up for anything beyond Novice what with the issues we had with quartering, cover, water, deliveries, rabbit retrieves....

[rubyroo]

Thank you TSD and FD. You experience is much appreciated. FD so many people had told me how bad shorthairs are with their mouths, so I've have mind games going on continually, I so want to prove them all wrong!!, :) i really don't think his mouth is hard as he continually drops dummies! Go figure? So today we had a 600ml water bottle a rubber stick thing a piece of dowel and a paint roller (he broke the ruler!) he was great and had so much fun squashing the crap out of the water bottle anyway I also had some beef jerky as a reward for returning and sitting. Things went ok. He was pretty happy but not so food motivated. When we finished we went for a walk and couldn't give two hoots about the jerky all he wanted was a dummy I had brought with us. (Mayb i need this as a reward - fun bumpers?) The other two stuck around like bad smells as they weren't going to miss out on the jerky!! He just wants to retrieve, no issues with his drive! I'm going to feed them shortly so I will do a bit more then and see if that creates a little more enthusiasm. He always wants more and sits at the door waiting for me, which is great. I know he loves it. Hope u all had fun training today.

[RubyStar]

fetchindawgs, when you find out the location details of the Anzac Day trials, can you please post here? I'm thinking of coming along to watch/help. Thanks :)

[The Spotted Devil]

Had a great session with not one but two gurus this morning. I've had a headache since last Thursday but it was just too good to miss :D

The AA dogs did their runs and then we made it a bit simpler for Em without such tight water entries. First mark was through very heavy cover, picking up the bumper in the clear ground. Em did her usual thing of late and over ran the mark - we left her to it for a bit, however, and the good thing was she did not give up NOR did she look to me for help. Eventually I gave a "come in" whistle to get her in the area. She sprinted back towards me, picked up the mark and came straight in. Second mark was shorter but again through heavy cover. Again she overshot and, much to one of the guru's surprise, took a lovely line straight through and into the water! He certainly wasn't expecting that!!! I called her in and she again picked up the mark and bolted back. So, clearly she's just not judging depth! We sent her for the first mark again and she did a MUCH better job and I certainly made sure she knew that. The AA dogs ran another set up before we moved the vehicles to new grounds. This time Em did a shorter mark across heavy cover and water and improved so much we couldn't believe it! The second mark was across water - a decent swim and a bit cheaty - but she swam a pretty good line there and back and picked the dummy up very efficiently. A couple of things noted - with all my effort to not hurry when sending I am now holding her back a little TOO long - the longer I hold her the more she veers to the right in her line. Interesting and something to play with. Also her height (or lack thereof!) is certainly a disadvantage. BUT she's my choice of dog and I'll just have to work with it. Need more marking practice obviously. Keep them simple, let her win and get her eye in again.

[rubyroo]

Got home late last night as I am apparently obsessed with clay target shooting! :D so rocket came in for a bit to work on deliveries. I just had a paint roller and some treats. It went brilliantly! He couldn't get it quick enough and deliver by the end, even had him picking up off the floor, I was so pleased!, will do another session later today and change the object, so thanks girls for the advice. I have the day off today, bumper boy is charged and ready to go!

TSD how did you stop her cheating water, I thought I had done this until trial on the weekend when he thought he would do a lap around the dam before he got in, never a prob. Before. It's exciting when it all comes together and have worked dam hard for it, we'll done.

[fetchindawgs]

fetchindawgs, when you find out the location details of the Anzac Day trials, can you please post here? I'm thinking of coming along to watch/help. Thanks :)

It is usually held at Brookleigh, and I would imagine that is still the go even with only Nov & Rest being run. I will check with Catherine.

[RubyStar]

Got home late last night as I am apparently obsessed with clay target shooting! :D so rocket came in for a bit to work on deliveries. I just had a paint roller and some treats. It went brilliantly! He couldn't get it quick enough and deliver by the end, even had him picking up off the floor, I was so pleased!, will do another session later today and change the object, so thanks girls for the advice. I have the day off today, bumper boy is charged and ready to go!

Well done! I'm so jealous you have a bumper boy

[RubyStar]

fetchindawgs, when you find out the location details of the Anzac Day trials, can you please post here? I'm thinking of coming along to watch/help. Thanks :)

It is usually held at Brookleigh, and I would imagine that is still the go even with only Nov & Rest being run. I will check with Catherine.

No AA?

Thanks, had a feeling it was Brookleigh :)

[Ptolomy]

fetchindawgs, when you find out the location details of the Anzac Day trials, can you please post here? I'm thinking of coming along to watch/help. Thanks :)

I am going to watch restricted

Livertreats ran the borrowed red dog at the RATG and ended up with both dummies back in her hand. We forgot to take out his "go now" batteries and he broke on both runs , but again he was exposed to things he hadn't encounted before and he did really well.

So sit and wait is on the agenda for the next few weeks.

[rubyroo]

Sorry RS! Had fun today, just a couple of single marks and then tried a double. Went surprisingly well. Tried some delivery work with a cricket ball and then a piece of dowel, it really makes a difference when they have to think about it and offer the behaviour. I think he likes this.

[The Spotted Devil]

Great work with the borrowed red dog Livertreats! I thought he was obedience trained Ptolomy

Sounds like a successful day of training rubyroo. I do anti cheating training by doing lots of call throughs on tiny ponds, gullies and cover. If she takes the correct line, yes! And throw the game (her highest value reward). If not, ah well, heel back to the start point and try again. I like to show her she has a choice....follow my line around or take the straight line. But start with the dog very close to the edge and throw a dummy 3/4 or 1/2 way in is a good approach as well. Lots of encouragement and praise.

Edited April 18, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyStar]

fetchindawgs, when you find out the location details of the Anzac Day trials, can you please post here? I'm thinking of coming along to watch/help. Thanks :)

I am going to watch restricted

Livertreats ran the borrowed red dog at the RATG and ended up with both dummies back in her hand. We forgot to take out his "go now" batteries and he broke on both runs , but again he was exposed to things he hadn't encounted before and he did really well.

So sit and wait is on the agenda for the next few weeks.

I think you should gun steward for restricted.... sans gloves :laugh:

I'll probably go along for novice and depending in how long it goes, restricted too. I have assignments starting to pile up on me and this weekend is completely out! But I am becoming increasingly interested in restricted and watching what it involves :)

[The Spotted Devil]

Now that's out of my system..... Em won her 3rd Novice today with 181 points for her NRD title :D

Yesterday I had to work so missed day 1 of the trial in Pittong (about 40km the other side of Ballarat). I packed up the car, took Em to work and drove up to the trial site last night. A few new purchases made my tent set up even better (camp stretcher, new stove) - heated up my yummy dinner and caught up with friends over a lemonade (yes, seriously :laugh: Alcohol does not mix with a week and a half long headache).

I'd entered Novice and Restricted just to get some experience...work between the pegs was very good all day - heeling, steady to shot and deliveries. Both stakes were held in tandem so I'll list the runs as they were held.

Run 1 (Restricted) - double mark. Work at the pegs was great - lined up well and took the "leave" command no problem. Sent her for the 2nd bird down and she took a lovely line straight out. Still overrunning but one come-in whistle and she turned on a dime, flew back, hunted, picked it up and delivered to hand. Lined her up for the memory mark. She took a great line out there but fell into a young dog trap - they needed to run through cover, a ditch, cover, bare ground (a road) and into cover again. Em got to the bare ground and, like several dogs, just couldn't push past the road into cover again. When she couldn't find it she tried to go back to where she found the first one. I handled her several times - she responded really well but just didn't get the concept so I called her in. We've been doing confidence building marks through cover into bare ground so I'll put this down as experience and on my To Do list!

Run 1 (Novice) - lots of sky, about 80m coming down in nondescript moderate cover, left to right. Lovely straight line, overran it, one come in whistle and she picked it up. She was pinged for her marking (as she should have been) and scored a rather woeful 54 points.

Run 2 (Novice) - in water, lots of duckweed and some timber, a moderate land run before the entry. Took a nice line across moderate cover and then I lost sight as she went down the embankment. I think this is where she lost a mark as she did a tiny dog leg into the water but picked it up no problem and took a great line back. Deliver. Shake. 64 points.

Run 2 & 3 (Restricted) - I only gun stewarded for this as we didn't have time to run those that bombed out. Run 2 was a double rise on the high side of a gully. Most dogs did a good job on the first retrieve but not so great on the second. Then they returned to the pegs and I swapped the game for fresh cartridges for the third run. The handler reloaded, heeled their dog to another peg, left them in a sit, walked down behind a big tree, fired at the blind in the water, called the dog and sent them to pick it up. It was enough to split the field and LL's Funky won the day

Run 3 (Novice) - long, high mark right to left on the high side of another gully and landing behind a heap of fallen timber. By this time the wind had REALLY whipped up and I was thinking that any dogs needing a whistle would be in trouble as you couldn't hear a thing!!!! Em won it on this run. She ran really hard and attacked the gully and cover like a little machine. I lost sight as she went down into the gully but then saw her bolt straight up the other side through timber and cover to appear in the exact area of the fall, pick up the game and take the exact line back to me. I was so thrilled I pumped my fist in the air :laugh: Went crazy with her once the lead was back on and she was as pleased as punch. I hope she knew how well she'd done and remembers it for next time :D 63 points. Picked up 10 points on this run.

Home now, Em has had a lamb neck and is fast asleep next to me on the couch and Mr TSD has just pulled a bloody great eye fillet off the Weber so I better scoot!

[rubyroo]

Congrats em and TSD!!!

[RubyStar]

Way to go, Em and TSD!!!!