Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[Tassie]

Sounds like you really, really earned that shower TSD - but came home with lots of pluses, and a training direction.

And RS and RV - good training sessions are always fun.

megan - when I'm reading this I keep thinking that it would probably be good to read up more about it - but then I only have limited room in my poor old brain :laugh: .

[The Spotted Devil]

Good to hear you've found new grounds RS and RV - very helpful for training!

Yes, I am very much enjoying long showers at the moment, especially since we've had some decent rain for the water tanks :D I do have a camp shower but I'm about to upgrade it - in discussions with my Dad at the moment about their camping set up.....

Gave Em the day off on Monday (and I went to the MCC to watch the footy!) but had Mr TSD helping us with marking drills yesterday and today. I'm already seeing an improvement in her focus - she's gone from looking flat (just looking where she's going to run for a blind retrieve as one trialler explained to me) to really looking to where the dummy lands. Started on white dummies yesterday and progressed her to a mix of white and black today. First drill: Mr TSD @ 120 metres - one to the left and one to the right. Mr TSD @ 100 metres - one to the left and one to the right. Mr TSD @ 80 metres - one to the left and one to the right. Second drill: X marking drill that I've mentioned previously. Will try and get out this afternoon before I go to work to do some walking singles...long, longer, short is the plan :D

[The Spotted Devil]

Mr TSD had the cheek to play golf on his day off :laugh: so I've lined him up for more marking drills tomorrow.

Today, I started with a 3 leg lining drill on the oval with 3 piles of dummies - one at the far end, one to the left and one to the right. Sent her for the back pile first. A bit of a wonky line so I stopped and straightened her up with a right back. No problem. It was a bit warm so decided to break things up so she didn't get tired too quickly. Set her up in the middle of the three piles and sent her left/right/right back/left back until she'd picked up all 6 dummies. Left backs were weak so I gave her a rest and then worked on just them.....took the verbal cue out and just gave the signal. If she didn't turn the correct way I stopped her, moved in closer and cast her again. Took a bit to figure it out - I think I've been giving extra hints with my body language - but she finally clicked and turned correctly on the last 3 dummies.

[RubyStar]

I'm bummed. I am going to have to miss training on Saturday because I stupidly entered an agility trial for the same morning. Boo

I'd much rather play retrieving as I've been having so much fun with it. But don't want to forfeit my entry fees and we have strat pairs as well so can't let my partner down

[rubyroo]

Bummer RS. Just use it as an obedience session and mayb a few fun retrieves in break time!

TSD sounds like rocket and I were doing similar to u today although ours was just a mini T. I had a few problems with the right backs, he occasionally wanted to go left so I just stopped him and sent him on his way. His confidence is getting better every day it's nice to finally see when all the hard work is starting to pay off. Our steadiness still isn't great when bumper boy and shotgun go off at the same time but we are working on it. Well keep at it tomorrow!

[RallyValley]

Tassie a lot of this retrieving stuff is beyond me too! I train retrieves for field trials so I don't need too much of the fancy stuff :laugh:

I went out on Sunday with SparkyTansy to a Utility Gundog training day. It was run on caged quail and there were various mock exercises set up, including a "bird" (well a frozen long deceased one) flying up after the dogs pointed and a wooden cut out 'dog' popping up on point to practice backing.

Zora had a similar session in October last year and one other one in December. It was in these sessions she began to develop more control and stronger points. (She had already proven she has a fantastic nose and was able to find birds even when more experienced dogs struggle).

This session on Sunday was more of the same and I am really pleased she remembered her lessons! She was absolutely brilliant, she was so intense on point, pointing about 5m away from the bird on scent alone and was really holding her points. She was really working with the wind and took minimal encouragement to quarter nicely when she was working. On her first go through she was briefly acknowledging Lulu's points but then kept working.

I then ran Zora with a very talented GSP bred by FHRP's Polo. She is only 6 months but was great to work with, her points were very clear and steady - which allowed me to do some work with Zora on backing. As we progressed through the day her backing got better and by the end of the session I was happy with how she was backing.

Zora loves Field work more then anything on earth and it pleases me so much to see her instincts kicking in. Hoping we get a chance to go out as much as possible in this season, we should hopefully see some good progress with Zora.

[RubyStar]

I'd love to watch you guys doing field work some time, as I have no idea what it's really all about and it sounds interesting :)

[RallyValley]

Sadly RS I think the rest of the sessions for this year will be out in whoop whoop or beyond. :laugh:

[RubyStar]

Oh well Maybe you could video some sometime?

Are you coming to watch the RATG this weekend? It's in Kalamunda this time.

[RallyValley]

Unless I get an offer to go out in the field I will try and come :)

[FHRP]

I then ran Zora with a very talented GSP bred by FHRP's Polo. She is only 6 months but was great to work with, her points were very clear and steady - which allowed me to do some work with Zora on backing.

Aww, Polo is a proud Daddy! I love hearing how his pups are going, there's always a feeling of responsibility that the pups turn out as nice as they 'should'

Always enjoy reading your training updates too RV. It sounds so different to how we've done things with Polo and just confirms my extremely limited knowledge of training dogs for field work :)

I've had Polo out in the paddocks once this year, he did well and hasn't forgotten a thing :) The birds were extremely toey, so I was very happy with his steadiness. I hope to get out there again soon now my car issues have been fixed! I'm not sure if we'll get to Victoria for trials this year though

[RallyValley]

We went out again today, the drive out to the paddocks was over 2hrs. It was around 30 degrees and the paddocks we were working on did not have much cover. Between the three dogs we were working (all Britts) we found maybe 20 or so birds, but due to the conditions they were not sitting and due to the heat the dogs were having difficulty scenting them. The birds were not sitting very well either.

In the first paddock Zora was covering the ground really well, working with the wind and bumped up two coveys of three quails. The whole paddock only had one productive point for any of the dogs. In the second paddock we didn't find any birds but all the dogs got a dip in the sheep tray and felt a bit cooler and refreshed.

The third paddock I had Zora on a long line, so we could work her on the birds instead of her bumping them. At one point she was very intent and I could tell she was on a scent... But then I bumped up the bird We were working with Zach who is much more experienced and an awesome dog so Zora got some chances to back. After this point I had a little bit of a moment when I realised my fumbling on the long line and my inexperience was mucking Zora up. Zach's owner took her line in the fourth and final paddock and in about 15 mins they managed to find four quail, have one good point and three very near points (she stopped but then lost confidence and turned back to her handler). It's all a learning curve but it is so disappointing when you know you are ruining a very nice dog with lots of potential through bumbling novice handling.

We worked for just over 2 and a half hours. I'm hoping to go out again soon. I get very disappointed sometimes, but I just added it up and Zora has only been out with wild quail 6 times (and half of those had very little/no quail around) and she has improved each time. She definitely knows how to hunt and what she is hunting for. Our elements of control are getting better too - she is really recalling well now and listening to directionals.

Zora hunting

IMG_8276 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

IMG_8288 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

Zora and Olive quartering opposite ways

IMG_8293 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

[RallyValley]

Zach on point

IMG_8328 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

Zach working the paddock

IMG_8306 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

IMG_8301 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

Zach backing Olive's point

IMG_8313 by rallyvalley, on Flickr

[RubyStar]

Sounds like you had a great day, RV! I'm sure as you are starting to realise that she is doing better than you think :) Great photos!

Yesterday we had WA's first RATG for the year (our 3rd in total).

9 novice dogs, 3 open dogs. All the dogs did great! We had 4 qualifiers in novice, and all 3 qualified in open.

I had Ruby and Millie entered. I of course drew #1 for Ruby but that doesn't bother me, as long as I don't have 2 consecutive numbers like last time! (#1 and #2, not fun!) Lucky I drew #6 for Millie

Ruby did great until the last retrieve. It was through some long waist height grass and we couldn't see where it landed and I feared she'd stop and not go through the grass. She pushed on though to my surprise, but deviated to the left towards the thrower, and then that threw her off course so didn't locate the dummy. I called her in, but was very happy with her efforts!

Millie who has had less training, especially in cover, I feared wouldn't get it either. To my delight, off she shot and the thrower guy said she was straight on it, and back she came with it! She's the polar opposite to Ruby, in that she has such a soft mouth that the dummy just kept falling out of it She dropped it 3 times on her way back to me, but didn't require me to ask her to pick it up again and brought it all the way for a nice present on her own accord. Best part was she actually waited to be sent, as she's usually so eager that she's off like a shot before being sent

Was very very pleased with Millie's work, she loves retrieving so much! She walked away 3 points behind the winner with 2nd place Damn her dropping the dummy

fetchindawgs has a couple of brags from yesterday too, and Strauss, livertreats' borrowed red dog did awesomely, too!

Edited April 15, 2013 by RubyStar

[The Spotted Devil]

Nice to see I'm not alone in keeping this thread alive anymore :laugh:

Well done RS! What did they ping you for Millie dropping the dummy?

RV - nice to hear you've got enough game out and about to do some training. Tell me about the whole newby handler though *rolls eyes* I'm losing count of the number of times I've "broken" Em

So....have been trying to "unbreak" Em with respect to marking. After 3 days of marking drills we went back to one day handling/lining alternated with one day marking. I'm flat out at the moment so a lot of our drills have been done on the oval (thank you Mr TSD!!!) One thing I have been conscious of is really splitting our training rather than lumping and her understanding has improved as a result. Yesterday I caught up with an experienced trainer and worked Em out in the real world. She saw some really tricky marks through the trees so I was very pleased with those but started pottering on a long mark - a consequence of all that handling on marks at Easter I suspect as I never handle on marks in training. We worked on building her confidence and then added in a memory mark. Of course she couldn't recall what that was what with all the single marks we've been doing (!!!!!!!) so had to run that again - penny seemed to drop though. Had a nice lunch at a country cafe and then switched training grounds. The sleep in the back of the car did Em the world of good as did some much cooler water work. Marking was much better - we had a lesson on "switching" on a double and a couple of lessons on not giving up. Her confidence really improved and she stopped looking to me for help but went back to hunting persistently as she used to. I don't think we're quite there but there was an awful lot of "bad trainer" to undo

[RubyStar]

Don't worry TSD, I love talking and reading about retrieving so although we don't have fantastic things to contribute, I will try keep the thread alive with you

I'm not sure how much we lost with dropping the dummies, didn't bother to check We got a score of 90/100 in the end, so sounds like the judge was kind and didn't ping too harshly for so many fumbles! Apart from that, I was really pleased with everything she did. I'm keen to get her out and do some more training, as she really enjoys it and I'd like to do the open test with her once we get our last novice pass. Got ages to get ready for that, though

Fantastic work with Em. I love that you can train, train, train with her and she doesn't tire or get bored. What I long for in a dog! Millie could go for ages, much longer than Ruby, but she still has her limits. Ruby has a very short training session lifespan before she tires and/or loses interest Prime example - on Saturday we headed out for training and we worked purely on water marks. She was raring to go on her first one, and I started with a double rise because I wanted to get one in before she lost interest. I was all ready to abandon if she had trouble locating the first, but she did well. So we proceeded with the double rise and after deviating to try and pick up a log in the water, she found the dummy and brought it back. All good! They were 2 quite long swims for her, and I suspected that that may be it for her. While the others had a go I worked on some short handling on land with dummies left and right, still quite eager. Moved to do a single mark in another direction in the water and I should have gone with my judgement of that was her limit, at least with water. But still, I sent her out, she went out, but then she lost the plot on the way back Had to encourage her to bring it back and then I called it a day. So didn't exactly end on a good note. It's not like she did much, but her limits are much lower. So you can imagine that I long for a dog with drive!! I half have that with Millie, which is heaps of fun :)

Edited April 15, 2013 by RubyStar

[The Spotted Devil]

Nice score!

Em was pinged 50% of her marks in her one and only RATG for dropping the dummy - but it did get me working on her deliveries :D

Regarding training and switching off - I sound like I do a lot of training but I break it up very, very carefully so Em doesn't get bored or tired. She may be a a little rocket rabbit but she hates repetition. I give her lots of breaks over the training session and will break a drill down so I'm working on exactly what I need to. Work on concepts separately to long swims. Maybe two long swims were too much? You could teach the concept of a double rise on land or on a much shorter swim perhaps? As several wise trainers have told me....don't do in water what you can't do on land.

Yesterday, for example......single mark 1 (good!), single mark 2 (good!) - one medium and one short to test depth perception. Rest whilst I reloaded the bumper boys and another dog ran. Single mark 3 (average), repeat single mark 3 (good!). Rest whilst I moved mark 2. Double mark 1 and 2 (memory mark average), repeat double mark 1 and 2 - complete disaster on my part because a) I forgot to cock the bumper boy for one and b) had no bumpers left on the other :laugh: LUNCH so long rest. Double mark - hand thrown so focus on concept not distance (good!), double mark in different location (good!), double mark with one long, more challenging cover (deep ditch of water, land, water) and a short water memory mark (good!) Long run into water beyond several large clumps of reeds (average). Big rest whilst other dogs ran. Tried the last one again (much better!)

Just re-read my previous post and felt I should give Em some credit for the way she faced cover and water. The second training area is somewhere I haven't visited for a long time and it was hard to remember how truly spooked Em was by the reeds, deep ditches and water. She smashed through everything at top speed yesterday - supremely confident in her own physical abilities which was just delightful. The other youngster in training had similarly come a LONG way :)

[RubyStar]

But to me, that IS a lot you are doing :laugh: when I think of it in terms of how Ruby would cope with that and I'm trying to say that even with all your breaks, I would love a dog who could cope with that! Ruby doesn't get run continuously, she gets LOTS of breaks and does MUCH less than that overall, so it isn't about not resting her sufficiently and asking her to do continuous retrieves. But you are definitely right in that the 2 swims were too long and I won't combine a lengthy swim with a tougher concept again anytime soon (she did it, but tired her out too much to work on anything else afterwards - lesson learned!)

I'm not sure how my posts are coming across, all I am trying to say is it is incredibly frustrating and demotivating for me to have a dog who isn't driven and is done for the day after 2 retrieves. I'm not willing to accept that she is more cut out for a pet life at home just yet, and I will work through the frustration she gives me in all sports because there are times she shows me just what she really is capable of :)

Edited April 15, 2013 by RubyStar

[The Spotted Devil]

But to me, that IS a lot you are doing :laugh: when I think of it in terms of how Ruby would cope with that. Ruby doesn't get run continuously, she gets LOTS of breaks and does MUCH less than that overall, so it isn't about not resting her sufficiently and asking her to do continuous retrieves. But you are definitely right in that the 2 swims were too long and I won't combine a lengthy swim with a tougher concept again anytime soon (she did it, but tired her out too much to work on anything else afterwards - lesson learned!)

:laugh: Yes, but that is over an entire day - I left home at 8am and arrived home at 10.30pm. OK, so there was some puppy cuddling in between

And I have built the motivation up just like you would in heel work - we used to do 3 walking singles and then go home. Yesterday I asked her to do two marks only and then have a good rest before she is remotely ready to take a break - she is very much used to that routine of training but I used to do a lot less. But definitely the swimming knocks them around, particularly if they have to think as well! When we did water work yesterday, the swims were quite short but she had to face cover, long land entries and deal with selection (for doubles). Patience, RS! You will get there

ETA: Just saw your edit. I understand! Remember I run a Dalmatian who's great purpose in life was to pi$$ on every tree in sight :D I had to build him up too.

Edited April 15, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyStar]

But to me, that IS a lot you are doing :laugh: when I think of it in terms of how Ruby would cope with that. Ruby doesn't get run continuously, she gets LOTS of breaks and does MUCH less than that overall, so it isn't about not resting her sufficiently and asking her to do continuous retrieves. But you are definitely right in that the 2 swims were too long and I won't combine a lengthy swim with a tougher concept again anytime soon (she did it, but tired her out too much to work on anything else afterwards - lesson learned!)

:laugh: Yes, but that is over an entire day - I left home at 8am and arrived home at 10.30pm. OK, so there was some puppy cuddling in between

I edited my post above to try and clarify what I was trying to say, I am not sure it came out right.